The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    If I wanted to lay down a bass line (an octave transpose function, maybe), chordal comping and a muted string rhythmic part to play melodies and solo over - what is a good value looper?

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Will let others chime in on current products. I have a Pigtronix Infinity which is nice enough but isn't a good value for practice. However, wanted to mention a few features I find useful.

    • 2 independent channels
      • Usually you only need an A and a B for many song forms (AABA, etc). Hit one button, you record/play A, hit the other and it's B
      • Or you can set up the two channels to put down chords in one channel, bass in the other and play them back together

    • Separate stop button (never got double clicking down and really prefer a third button)
    • Midi interface with clock if you want to integrate a drum machine like Beat Buddy
    • Long loop times and the ability to export/import from an SD card


    All loopers are fun and good for practice. As you add features you add the ability to do full songs and practice more of a performance setting rather than snippets. Of course, investing time learning gadgets does take away from practice time. And fancier tech can try your patience.
    Last edited by Spook410; 01-28-2021 at 02:20 PM.

  4. #3

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    For the last year, for practice, I’ve been using the Digitech Trio Plus which allows you to lay down your chord progression, then select from a wide range of drum and bass styles to fill out the sound. You then add as many loops as you like, the first being your rhythm guitar. You can record all sorts of structures with repeats and it’s incredibly flexible without being as “heavy” as BIAB.
    The software is pulled from Band in a Box so the quality is there.

    check it out?

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spook410
    Will let others chime in on current products. I have a Pigtronix Infinity which is nice enough but isn't a good value for practice. However, wanted to mention a few features I find useful.

    • 2 independent channels
      • Usually you only need an A and a B for many song forms (AABA, etc). Hit one button, you record/play A, hit the other and it's B
      • Or you can use the two channels to put down chords in one channel, bass in the other and play them back together

    • Separate stop button (never got double clicking down and really prefer a third button)
    • Midi interface with clock if you want to integrate a drum machine like Beat Buddy
    • Long loop times and the ability to export/import from an SD card


    All loopers are fun and good for practice. As you add features you add the ability to do full songs and practice more of a performance setting rather than snippets. Of course, investing time learning gadgets does take away from practice time. And fancier tech can try your patience.
    If you don't care about MIDI interface, electro-harmonix 22500 looper has all else above significantly cheaper.

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by medblues
    If you don't care about MIDI interface, electro-harmonix 22500 looper has all else above significantly cheaper.
    That's what I started with but the design just didn't work for me. If you will forgive a rant on a popular looper you may like but I kinda hated: Even with the major software upgrade awhile back the ergo's are impossible. The different channels with different settings on each that you could step up and down through (after purchase of the add on switch) seemed more intended for performance. Simply erasing a track takes several hands on button twists and pushes ( like...you want to delete this track? really? your sure? OK. go to this setting and hold the button down for over 3 seconds.. I mean.. your sure?). I think they improved that a bit with software releases but I'm still a scarred and bitter consumer (sigh). Overall they expected you to go to the next channel and do something there leaving the last channel for posterity. Hopefully you didn't have drums running on the upcoming channel. Or pitch shift. Because settings are persistent by channel. That and setting up the channels for serial vs parallel took constant references back to the manual. Had lots of good things like sound quality and a solid build but they forgot to make it simple and similar to other loopers in operation.

    I do think there is a version of the Pigtronix Infinity now without Midi that's significantly cheaper but has much of the utility.

    Also, in terms of value, there is a simple but usable double click looper on the Electroharmonix Canyon Delay. It's a good delay pedal (if you don't mind some tiny, unreadable knobs and buttons) that includes shimmer and other useful bits. The looper is just sort of thrown into the deal.
    Last edited by Spook410; 01-28-2021 at 02:33 PM.

  7. #6

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    You really don't need anything too complicated. You just need something that records long enough for you to play through the form of a standard a a few times. A separate stop button is useful.

    My recommendation is the TC Electronic Ditto X2 looper. In the US it's $149.

    It's super simple to use, has 5 minutes of record time and a second footswitch that can be assigned to stop, half-speed or reverse functions (and you can move back and forth between those three settings during recording/playing).

    TC Electronic Ditto | Sweetwater

    If you really must record octave-down baselines, then you can record your chords in half-speed, kick it back in normal speed (so doubling the speed), overdub your baseline then switch back to half-speed. Et voila!

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by David B
    You really don't need anything too complicated. You just need something that records long enough for you to play through the form of a standard a a few times. A separate stop button is useful.

    My recommendation is the TC Electronic Ditto X2 looper. In the US it's $149.

    It's super simple to use, has 5 minutes of record time and a second footswitch that can be assigned to stop, half-speed or reverse functions (and you can move back and forth between those three settings during recording/playing).

    TC Electronic Ditto | Sweetwater

    If you really must record octave-down baselines, then you can record your chords in half-speed, kick it back in normal speed (so doubling the speed), overdub your baseline then switch back to half-speed. Et voila!
    Never used one. Can you tell me how you get the turnaround in perfect sync? Does it quantize? Thanks.

  9. #8

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    I also use a Pigtronix Infinity looper. Bought it for the two independant channels to be able to record A and B parts for song. I have rarely ended up using that function though.. I use it live when playing in a duo setting with a singer. I usually just record the whole song when im comping for the singer, then start the loop for my solo. The infinity works really well for that, but it has a lot of extra functionallity i never ended up actually using that much.

  10. #9

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    The Ditto looper is simple to use and simply works. I have the original smaller Ditto and the Digitech Trio Plus which, while being an amazing practice tool, isn't practical for real time live use in my opinion. To teach the tune to the device requires too much planning and overhead.

  11. #10

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    I agree with spook410 that EHX 22500 is not that great for live use (even after firmware updates). I bought it mainly for the microphone input and sound quality to use at home for practice and recording (at the time I did not have a good recorder). Oh, also it has adjustable beat per minute (many other loopers don't). For live use, I have Digitech Jammans with the extra footswitch pedals.

  12. #11

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    Most pedal loopers are similar, but for live use i found the Boss ones better for one small detail.

    When using just one layer of recorded stuff, the DigiTech and Ditto loopers need you to quickly double tap keeping the second tap pressed for a couple of seconds to erase the loop. The Boss just needs you to press for a couple of seconds.

    This made all the difference for me live, as in gigs I need to be able to seamlessly erase the loop and go back to playing chords. Trying to do that, keep the music playing, the rhythm and time etc.., the less tap dancing the better. It sounds insignificant but for me it meant messing up once per set or not!

    In my opinion the best looper for live use is the 2 loop version of Boss (ironically the only one I don't have , I have the Rc3 and the Rc300). Perfect combination of portability and utility, and having two loops is great. You can do chorus verse very easily, or percussion and chords etc, a great difference with the one loop pedals.

  13. #12

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    I like the Ditto loopers for sonic quality, but the Digitech Jam Man series allows one to use a memory card and save the loops that you really like, as well as recording onto the memory card those loops that you may have created in your computer. This gives you the ability to create libraries of tracks for various different gigs. Some of the other brands have the ability to save loops in the internal memory, but the limitations are pretty severe. I now have over 200 tunes saved to memory cards or USB memory, since I work with singers and hornplayers in duo situations, which will probably be very popular once the venues can start hiring again. The clubs, restaurants and halls have taken serious financial damage during this pandemic, and it may take some time for them to be able to ramp up to hiring bands.

  14. #13

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    I'm happy with the TC Ditto. No features, just press the footswitch, record, press again to play (you gotta be in sync, though), press again to lay down more tracks, double-click to erase the whole mess. Easy peasy. More than enough time for 32 bar forms. There are several cheaper copies out there.

  15. #14

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    Like the USB port.

    Quote Originally Posted by David B
    You really don't need anything too complicated. You just need something that records long enough for you to play through the form of a standard a a few times. A separate stop button is useful.

    My recommendation is the TC Electronic Ditto X2 looper. In the US it's $149.

    It's super simple to use, has 5 minutes of record time and a second footswitch that can be assigned to stop, half-speed or reverse functions (and you can move back and forth between those three settings during recording/playing).

    TC Electronic Ditto | Sweetwater

    If you really must record octave-down baselines, then you can record your chords in half-speed, kick it back in normal speed (so doubling the speed), overdub your baseline then switch back to half-speed. Et voila!

  16. #15

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    Guys,

    could you share your experience.. which looper is the most convinient for real-time performance when you need for example delete previous loop and record new one during same tune.
    Do any loopers have an option of consequent looping?
    Possibility to stop or delete previous loop but to keep overdubbed one?
    Etc.

    I have small Ditto which is nice but one button makes it difficult to work with in some real-time playing.

    Thank you
    Last edited by Jonah; 04-05-2021 at 06:53 AM.

  17. #16

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    I had have the small Ditto too, but sold it. You are right. One button makes it a bit difficult to manage. I also would be interested in an alternative.

  18. #17

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    i guess the x4 can do what you want, but many bands that rely heavy on looping in a live situation use multiple loopers, not just one.. like eg russian circles.
    Put your tapdance shoes on!

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by waltf
    i guess the x4 can do what you want, but many bands that rely heavy on looping in a live situation use multiple loopers, not just one.. like eg russian circles.
    Put your tapdance shoes on!
    Thanks for a lead to x4! (I knew only about x2) will have a look at it.


    Yes two loopers can be an option - I did that as I have a simple looper in delay pedal (only for 20 sec but it was ok to try combinations)... a few loopers can lead to the point you need a fiew outputs and amps etc. which makes all the setup too cimplicated for me.

  20. #19

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    I have been using loopers in live performance for a number of years. I have used a number of different models from Boomerang, JamMan, Boss & Ditto. My recommendation, for live looping, is to avoid the single button loopers. Two-button versions are much easier to use in real time, allowing to stop the loop effortlessly at exactly the right time. Another thing, is to make sure your looper has enough memory to record a loop several minutes long. I work in a duo setting. While the sax player is playing the head or soloing, I record myself backing him up. When I’m ready to solo, I hit the play button and I can solo over my own backing track. You will find that AABA songs, especially ballads, are between two and three minutes once through. Basic loopers that are built in to multi-effects units are often too short. Any good stand-alone looper should have plenty of memory. I think the best bang for the buck, that meets my requirements for live looping, is the Ditto X-2. You can’t save your loops on the X-2 though. If you are planning to pre-record loops for solo gigs, you need to buy something with storage. I use the X-2 for duo gigs and a Boss RC-300 for solo gigs. The Boss, however is significantly more complicated (and expensive) and is really not necessary for making one-time loops on the fly.
    Keith

  21. #20

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    The small Boss loopers are great for live playing, cause it's easy to erase the loop, you just keep the pedal pressed for a few seconds, so no need for a second button.

    I record one chorus of comping when the horn player solos (or just record the second head comping), then solo over it, then start to play the chords while at the same time keeping the pedal pressed to erase the loop. Easy, no need for complicated double taps etc..

    But if someone wants to record many layers, more than one loop, etc, then the two loop loppers are very practical and can do that. The Rc-300 is king, has three loops and effects, but it's also expensive and more difficult to carry. If looping isn't your main thing, I would recommend a two loop looper like the Ditto X4 or the Boss Rc-500 (favorite of mine).

  22. #21

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    What do you guys think of the Ditto X2 and the EHX 72

    John

  23. #22

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    I see that x4 will not work for my purposes.

    I want to have at least two loops of which I can easily stop or play any at any moment.

    I guess for my idea I need two 2-button loopers to make it smoothly in real-time.

  24. #23

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    I just bought an Aeros Loop Studio. Once you get over the price tag nothing comes close. I haven’t tried to exceed 6x6.

  25. #24

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    I've had terrible luck with loopers. Too techy for me in general. I gave up on my Boss RC-3 years ago. I found it to be very frustrating to use & I really just didn't want to put that much time into learning it.

    But my bass player hasn't been "available" for over a year now, so I decided to try looping again.
    I bought the Donner Circle Looper based on features and incredibly cheap price ($92) !!!?!
    I've had it for a couple of weeks now and have found it to be super easy to use -- even fun !
    Even though I still don't have reliable looping skills, I already have a dozen decent recorded loops to play along with.
    I'm almost to the point I could play a quiet solo looper gig. Not quite there yet, but hey, I have plenty of time on my hands right now to practice & no gigs on the horizon.

    I have no idea if this cheap gear will hold up long, but it sure is fun & easy to use.
    BTW, sorry if this pedal has been discussed before in the forum . . . I haven't logged in for a while

  26. #25

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    Digitech Jamman series includes one model that can be chained to another looper of the same model, making the looping more flexible for live performance. They also have memory and usage available for creating libraries of up to 100 loops for live work in situations where a band can't be used, like senior citizen work, which rarely has the budget of the room for an ensemble. Over the years, I have created about 200 or more loops for working with a singer or horn player or working solo. TheJamMan stuff is also good for requests because here are always a couple of blank spaces that you can live-loop with. Worth exploring, and I'm sure other companies offer similar technology. Given the current situation, I expect to be doing a lot more solo or duo work until the economy recovers, so pre-recordable loopers are going to be necessary to work in a dance situation, for instance.