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  1. #51

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    Super 400 and L5s still seem to be available at Thomann. .. at 15k, and 10-12k for an L5. I wonder why no musician is buying one..

    As great as they are, i don't think these guitars can command the prices Gibson had been asking. Most interested buyers will only buy used. I can't think of another brand where customers don't feel the guitar is worth their money as much as a new Gibson.

    On top of that, I literally don't know any musician that considers brand new Gibsons better than the older ones (anything before 2000, not just vintage stuff, which, in hollow bodies often comes with many age issues). Fender for example doesn't seem to have that problem.

    I think the previous CEO did huge damage to the company, and they have a long way to go in order to rectify that.. if they can. Looking at the new owners, I'm not really that optimistic about it..

    And I'm writing all that loving the guitars they make

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  3. #52

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    NOOOoooooooooooo! I miss Henry J. and I want him back! Henry J at least kept the doors of the archtop department open for business. The last time Gibson threatened to close it was in 1989 but Henry persevered.

    This sickens me no end. I really should have bought the L5CESN from Cincy2.

  4. #53

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    I find solace in Archtop Tribute laminated guitars. There's always Benedetto Savannah...

    Japan has a healthy market for Gibson archtops. Gibson may do well to revisit that decision before the skills are forgotten. License the tailpieces and forms out to Jim Triggs, Mark Campellone, et alia. JC need not shut the archtop department down completely.

    Stupid and shortsighted. Guitar types go in and out of fashion.

  5. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alter View Post
    Super 400 and L5s still seem to be available at Thomann. .. at 15k, and 10-12k for an L5. I wonder why no musician is buying one..

    As great as they are, i don't think these guitars can command the prices Gibson had been asking. Most interested buyers will only buy used. I can't think of another brand where customers don't feel the guitar is worth their money as much as a new Gibson.

    On top of that, I literally don't know any musician that considers brand new Gibsons better than the older ones (anything before 2000, not just vintage stuff, which, in hollow bodies often comes with many age issues). Fender for example doesn't seem to have that problem.

    I think the previous CEO did huge damage to the company, and they have a long way to go in order to rectify that.. if they can. Looking at the new owners, I'm not really that optimistic about it..

    And I'm writing all that loving the guitars they make
    Well for me as a musician with limited funds the question is - I might buy one carved archtop. What do I choose to spend my hard earned money on? There more choice now.

    my impression was that their high end archtops were built like their semi acoustics, which is to say well, but solid and heavy

    Obviously I didn’t try all of their guitars, I’ve tried far more vintage Gibson archtops, because that’s what cats actually play, and laminate or carved they all have a lightness and resonance to them.

    I’m also aware dealers were often accepting a loss for guitars they couldn’t sell. That can’t be good .

    Jazz guitarists haven’t been choosing new Gibson archtops for a while. 335’s maybe.
    Last edited by christianm77; 01-23-2021 at 05:19 AM.

  6. #55

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    Some talented luthiers are now carrying the tortch

    RIP Gibson Archtop guitar-daniel-slaman-jpg

    I'm so glad I met Daniel Slaman in 2015.
    Last edited by Fred Archtop; 01-23-2021 at 02:03 PM.

  7. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Archtop View Post
    Some talented lutheirs are now carrying the tortch

    RIP Gibson Archtop guitar-daniel-slaman-jpg

    I'm so glad I met Daniel Slaman in 2015.
    One of quite a few makers making Gibsons the way they used to.

  8. #57

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    Who can afford a $10,000 guitar?

  9. #58

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    Just curious ... how many prominent CURRENT jazz guitarists can you all name who play a Gibson archtop. Lee Ritenour is the only one I can think of off hand. (And Tuck, but I think his are over 50 years old)

  10. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Soloway View Post
    Lee Ritenour is the only one I can think of off hand.
    If you even can call a 69 year old CURRENT?

    Anyways I digress .. some of my favorite Ritenour stuff is him and his L5, but he also does spend a lot of his time playing his Les Paul (or back in the day the 335)

  11. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Soloway View Post
    Just curious ... how many prominent CURRENT jazz guitarists can you all name who play a Gibson archtop. Lee Ritenour is the only one I can think of off hand. (And Tuck, but I think his are over 50 years old)
    Off the top of my head, Jonathan Kreisberg, Andy Brown, Chris Flory.

    In Europe, Martijn Van Iterson, Philip Catherine.
    Last edited by grahambop; 01-23-2021 at 10:13 AM.

  12. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Soloway View Post
    Just curious ... how many prominent CURRENT jazz guitarists can you all name who play a Gibson archtop. Lee Ritenour is the only one I can think of off hand. (And Tuck, but I think his are over 50 years old)
    One question is how many own such instruments and another is how many gig with them.

    The jazz club scene has closed down for about a year. There and in the orchestra pits are where I'd expect to see the greatest use of traditional archtops. Even in those venues I'll bet that less than 5% of the audiences would appreciate the differences between a L-5 and a 335. But it's those few who can tell, plus you and your band mates, that put a smile on your face.

    Just be sure when you leave the gig late at night you go out into a well lit parking area with a bunch of guys with you, if you want to bring your axe back home.

    Here's a current "jazz" player on a L-5. It happens!


  13. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov View Post
    If you even can call a 69 year old CURRENT?

    Anyways I digress .. some of my favorite Ritenour stuff is him and his L5, but he also does spend a lot of his time playing his Les Paul (or back in the day the 335)
    Given that he just released a wonderful new record a few weeks ago, yes, I consider him to be current.

  14. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Soloway View Post
    Given that he just released a wonderful new record a few weeks ago, yes, I consider him to be current.

    Thanks for the heads up. I've missed that release

  15. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Grass View Post
    One question is how many own such instruments and another is how many gig with them.

    The jazz club scene has closed down for about a year. There and in the orchestra pits are where I'd expect to see the greatest use of traditional archtops. Even in those venues I'll bet that less than 5% of the audiences would appreciate the differences between a L-5 and a 335. But it's those few who can tell, plus you and your band mates, that put a smile on your face.

    Just be sure when you leave the gig late at night you go out into a well lit parking area with a bunch of guys with you, if you want to bring your axe back home.

    Here's a current "jazz" player on a L-5. It happens!

    Current guy playing a guitar built in 1941, though (not for nothing, I'd love to see him record an album of standard interpretations. That would probably be a lot of fun).

    Can we think of any professional players using a Gibson archtop made in the last 10 years? You do see Gibsons in the hands of younger players, but they tend to look like vintage guitars.

  16. #65

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    This thread has made me a little sad I must say.
    But, one thing is for certain. The company that created the benchmark that I judge all guitars after has done what they had to do to survive. If I owned a company that made cameras or calculators or even GPS devices and no one was buying them any more, would I continue to manufacture them just to please the few people who still buy them? Or would I just start building smart phones?
    Same deal here, should Gibson continue to make 175’s and L5’s for the 200 or so people here on the forum, when only (let’s face it, because it’s true), only one or 2 (Vinny and somebody else I couldn’t think of) is willing to pay the price for a new one? You be the judge.
    One last thing I’ll say. I am SOO glad I got my L5. I played it this morning and it is LIGHT YEARS better any other guitar I own. Endless sustain, effortless playability - its a bank vault versus everything else which are Tupperware containers. My L5 punches you right in the ear and my Emperor Regent tickles me underneath the balls. Sorry ladies. (Oh yeah, no ladies here read my posts)..
    The Gibson I love will always rest in a warm place in my heart. Still the only guitar I really want to buy but I won’t buy a new one anyway, because I’d rather save the money (for my Jetski) and find a good deal on one that was made 10 years ago.

    JD

  17. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Max405 View Post
    should Gibson continue to make 175’s and L5’s for the 200 or so people here on the forum, when only (let’s face it, because it’s true), only one or 2 (Vinny and somebody else I couldn’t think of) is willing to pay the price for a new one? You be the judge.

    Yeah ... We can all agree on the fact that Gibson archtops are stellar, but I suspect that no more than a handful of people here bought new Gibson's even 10 years ago before their prices started skyrocketing (unless they where on deep sale that is .. Plenty did a bit of buying at the CME sale)

  18. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky View Post
    NOOOoooooooooooo! I miss Henry J. and I want him back! Henry J at least kept the doors of the archtop department open for business. The last time Gibson threatened to close it was in 1989 but Henry persevered.

    This sickens me no end. I really should have bought the L5CESN from Cincy2.
    I am sure glad that I bought that one. She has found a good home.

    I too miss Henry J. IMO, the best Gibson archtops ever happened under his watch.....

  19. #68

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    It’s unfortunate to some extent , but the Asian manufactures have taken over most of the market when it comes to affordable factory production of traditional Archtop guitars and derivatives. The offerings are endless - and most have excellent build quality. As for future collectibility- it’s non existent - just too many Asian guitars flooding the market.

    For example - if you look at the Asian built D’Angelicos - the company offers numerous models , with a continued focus on keeping a traditional aesthetic , while at the same time spinning off modern looking guitars for young players. Many You Tube videos I’ve seen actually do have young people playing Asian built guitars. Why .....they are affordable and this younger generation, (besides having little disposable income) , has no allegiance to traditional Gibson Archtop guitars - only to Les Paul , to some extent.

    Even though I’m hearing sadness about Gibson’s decision to stop new Archtop production - I doubt more than a few people would be buying them new anyway. Our brains, and perhaps our budgets, will always reflect back to the routed prices of a few years ago. And for those who were on the fence about buying - but waiting for more price contraction - are likely now feeling regretful.

    But no despair - there are tons of used Gibson’s on the market - so it’s not like they all vanished overnight. Its just that the current used asking prices - in many cases are higher than some “nos “ prices of just a few years.

    It’s like missing out on buying Apple stock on the way up. It’s never too late to buy in to something which is perceived as quality / value.

    So if the sadness is overwhelming - buy a nice used Gibson Archtop , and when you look back in a few years, you’ll likely be glad you did.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  20. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Soloway View Post
    Just curious ... how many prominent CURRENT jazz guitarists can you all name who play a Gibson archtop. Lee Ritenour is the only one I can think of off hand. (And Tuck, but I think his are over 50 years old)
    Hmmmm, Peter Mazza plays a Super V, Russell Malone plays L5s, Super Vs, Super 400s, Perry Smith plays a late 90s ES-175, Anthony Wilson was playing a Byrdland a few years back, at present I'm not sure.

  21. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k View Post
    Those at Dave’s are new so I stand corrected. They are trickling in standard L5 models still.
    CME told me they are not taking in new orders at this time on any archtops but this may just be a backlog issue. This also happened during the fretboard siege.
    I am getting conflicting info from dealers. Still no archtops in there 2021 lineup.
    The woods are not as flamey on the new ones at Dave’s but still look very nice.
    So, they are still making archtops in limited production through a small list of dealers?

  22. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by QAman View Post
    they are affordable and this younger generation, (besides having little disposable income) , has no allegiance to traditional Gibson Archtop guitars - only to Les Paul , to some extent.
    The young are just practical about these thing is my guess


    I saw a live stream with a younger player recently, where he was asked why he played a korean guitar, his reply was just:

    Hey an L5 is nice, but the thing is I gig and I go to jam sessions and thus it's unavoidable that my guitar gets a few knocks here and there. I've played expensive archtops, but I feel that once you go over €2000 you don't get enough extra to justify the larger price.

  23. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov View Post
    The young are just practical about these thing is my guess


    I saw a live stream with a younger player recently, where he was asked why he played a korean guitar, his reply was just:

    Hey an L5 is nice, but the thing is I gig and I go to jam sessions and thus it's unavoidable that my guitar gets a few knocks here and there. I've played expensive archtops, but I feel that once you go over €2000 you don't get enough extra to justify the larger price.
    My Gibson guitars all have dings and scratches from being used on gigs (it is unavoidable unless your gigs are all concerts where you have the space to protect the guitar). Two of my six Gibson archtops were bought new (the CME Blowout) and the first ding in each of those guitars bothered me, but the enjoyment of playing music on such fine instruments overshadows that. I have owned and played some worthy Asian made archtops (Japan and Korea) and I have owned and played other American made archtops (Guild, Epiphone and Gretsch) and I have owned and played a few boutique archtops. For me, playing jazz gigs on a Gibson archtop (a 175, L-5 or Super 400) just feels "right".

    You get one trip through life, if you can afford it, why not go first class?

  24. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger View Post
    You get one trip through life, if you can afford it, why not go first class?

    Yeah .. That is the catch .. if you can afford it ... Which usually means not being young

  25. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gitpicker View Post
    Hmmmm, Peter Mazza plays a Super V, Russell Malone plays L5s, Super Vs, Super 400s, Perry Smith plays a late 90s ES-175, Anthony Wilson was playing a Byrdland a few years back, at present I'm not sure.
    I thought of Anthony Wilson after I posted. His playing on the new Melody Gardot album is just stunning (as is the album). I'm sure there are lots, especially when you include vintage Gibsons but when I look at the dominant players of the last several decades, Benson and Scofield play Ibanez. Stern plays a Yamaha. Frisell seems to mostly play Fenders. Martino has played a bunch of different guitars (including two relatively short spells with a Gibson). Metheny has now played an Ibanez for decades. Chuck Loeb played Sadowskys. Ulf Wakenius plays a Benedetto (when he's not playing an acoustic or his pawn shop special). Martin Taylor seems play anything they put his name on, none of which were Gibsons. And of couse Ed Bickert played a Tele. That an awful lot of top tier talent with not much Gibson representation over a lot of years.

  26. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k View Post
    Those at Dave’s are new so I stand corrected. They are trickling in standard L5 models still.
    CME told me they are not taking in new orders at this time on any archtops but this may just be a backlog issue. This also happened during the fretboard siege.
    I am getting conflicting info from dealers. Still no archtops in there 2021 lineup.
    The woods are not as flamey on the new ones at Dave’s but still look very nice.
    We can only hope that the case.

  27. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gitpicker View Post
    Hmmmm, Peter Mazza plays a Super V, Russell Malone plays L5s, Super Vs, Super 400s, Perry Smith plays a late 90s ES-175, Anthony Wilson was playing a Byrdland a few years back, at present I'm not sure.
    Yes, and Doug Martin and Marco Schwartz can be seen on separate side of the world, playing L5’s and Super 400’s in front of packed houses along side other top players like Birelli Lagrene and Joscho Stephan, who plays a Citation AND A ES165!! My man..
    JD

  28. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov View Post
    Yeah ... We can all agree on the fact that Gibson archtops are stellar, but I suspect that no more than a handful of people here bought new Gibson's even 10 years ago before their prices started skyrocketing (unless they where on deep sale that is .. Plenty did a bit of buying at the CME sale)
    I did a quick search for "NGD" and found very few new Gibson archtops over recent years. Quite a few may have been scattered all over Europe and the ever-so-worshipful Japan, however. Some people may remember my ES-175 history from 2004-2005: two lemons, one ok. Eventually I sold the good one, because it was too much guitar for me and the frets ate into my fingertips. In 2016 I found a 2014 ES-175 1959 VOS, which ticked all my boxes. (In love with the zigzag tailpiece since a pre-teen in the late '50s.) The sample had been tried out by someone and was called B-stock. About EUR 2,000 off. The only flaw was a dent in the case. This guitar keeps my Benedetto Bravo in its case.

    The overall demand for full-bodied archtops just doesn't seem to justify serial manufacturing. Don't have a clue of Höfner's numbers, but AFAIK they are the only industrial maker of archtops with their books in Europe, ever since Furch gave up. Most Höfners come from the Far East, as do all Hagströms, Strombergs etc. The Japanese archtop makers are past their heyday. What is needed is an archtop revival, e.g. demand going up by multiples. Even so, price/quality champions like Ibanez, Epiphone and Godin, would probably stand out as winners.

  29. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Soloway View Post
    Just curious ... how many prominent CURRENT jazz guitarists can you all name who play a Gibson archtop. Lee Ritenour is the only one I can think of off hand. (And Tuck, but I think his are over 50 years old)
    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov View Post
    If you even can call a 69 year old CURRENT?

    Anyways I digress .. some of my favorite Ritenour stuff is him and his L5, but he also does spend a lot of his time playing his Les Paul (or back in the day the 335)
    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    Off the top of my head, Jonathan Kreisberg, Andy Brown, Chris Flory.

    In Europe, Martijn Van Iterson, Philip Catherine.
    I love Rit and have for years. My favorite stuff is definitely that where he's using his L5. He does use his LP a lot, which Gibson made specifically for him and if I'm not mistaken, he's mentioned that it was delivered to him on the day Les Paul passed way?

    Although not as well-known as some of the players mentioned above, Alessio Menconi (my favorite modern player) often uses an L5 (a WesMo or CES, along with a Super 400, a Johnny Smith, a Byrdland and a ES-175):










  30. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger View Post
    ...For me, playing jazz gigs on a Gibson archtop (a 175, L-5 or Super 400) just feels "right"...
    I don't gig but for some intangible reasons every Gibson that I have owned had a level a playability that surpassed anything else with a similar design. 30 some odd years ago I had a J-45. It was just easy to play and sounded like a cannon. I traded it for a Martin 00-18 which was still a good player, but not as effortless as the J-45, nor as booming. I also had an ES-175CC that was also easy to play. Playability wasn't a problem for me but I didn't like the CC pickup. It was the old school type that weighed a ton and hummed like a diesel truck. Since joining JGF I bought an ES-390, an ES-165 490R, and an ES-165-BJB. They are all "players" that have helped me continue to get better. I consider them professional grade. They are made for someone who plays guitar frequently.

    One question that sometimes comes up is whether the quality of the guitar is important for a beginner to learn how to play. In this case quality means playability. I don't see how it couldn't be and if you had to start somewhere Gibson is a choice that I would definitely recommend to a beginner. (Just as an aside I have a nephew and a friend who are beginners. My nephew listened to my advice and got an Epiphone J-45. My friend didn't and got a cheapish Cordoba. Guess which one is making progress.)

  31. #80

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    Don't Ted Nugent and George Thorogood still play Gibson archtops?


  32. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gitterbug View Post
    In 2016 I found a 2014 ES-175 1959 VOS, which ticked all my boxes. (In love with the zigzag tailpiece since a pre-teen in the late '50s.) The sample had been tried out by someone and was called B-stock. About EUR 2,000 off. The only flaw

    Oh yeah .. Back around 2014 my local guitar dealer (since gone bankrupt) had one of those .. Absolutely amazing guitar. I was floored ... But price tag said +5000 euro .. Congrats on having snatched one of those!

  33. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov View Post
    The young are just practical about these thing is my guess


    I saw a live stream with a younger player recently, where he was asked why he played a korean guitar, his reply was just:

    Hey an L5 is nice, but the thing is I gig and I go to jam sessions and thus it's unavoidable that my guitar gets a few knocks here and there. I've played expensive archtops, but I feel that once you go over €2000 you don't get enough extra to justify the larger price.
    Speaking as one who was once young (a LONG time ago) the young, with few exceptions, have very little money.
    FWIW, I bought my current ES-175 new, at 54, when I had no money but did have good credit. From the same AGD I ordered a new
    ES-137 with Varitone which unfortunately never materialized due to the Great Gibson Ebony Emergency, so I grabbed the first ES-137 non-varitone that came along, which is a wonderful instrument in its own right. Point being, some of us buy new (the warranty is a big incentive) because we can. Somebody's got to do it, or there is no used market.

  34. #83
    I thought the Japan made Epiphone Elitist Broadway, Byrdland, and Casino were very stellar.
    When they 1st came out I bought a new Broadway for $1600.00. Poly finish and a pressed top but the fit and finish was better than a Gibson. A great archtop that was very affordable.
    They also had all Gibson hardware and 57 classics.
    Gibson quickly saw them biting into there high end archtop market and stopped production.
    If Gibson brought back that Epi Elitist line they would blow away the current Asian offerings IMO. Very close to a Gibson at a very affordable price.
    Cost of a Gibson L5 is why they don’t sell. Affordability is the biggest issue.
    I never think about driving a Ferrari. When you know you could never afford something it won’t be on your wish list.

    Inflation is hitting the Asian market also. When the D’A EXL-1 first came out they were $700 and now they are $1500 and the 1st ones had ebony fretboards and better Korean QC.

    My brand new 2008 L5 Wes was $5700. Now $9700. I remember in the mid 90’s they were $3300.
    I bought a brand new S400 in 1978 for $1800. Now $16K but you can’t order one.

  35. #84

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    Citizen74
    With regard to :

    Somebody’s got to do it , or there is no used marked.

    Well said indeed.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  36. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k View Post
    Inflation is hitting the Asian market also. When the D’A EXL-1 first came out they were $700 and now they are $1500 and the 1st ones had ebony fretboards and better Korean QC.

    My brand new 2008 L5 Wes was $5700. Now $9700. I remember in the mid 90’s they were $3300.
    I bought a brand new S400 in 1978 for $1800. Now $16K but you can’t order one.
    Inflation combined with material scarcity keeps the prices moving higher. They say that the best time to plant a tree is yesterday. I would opine that kind of thinking applies to Gibson guitars as well.

    With all the money that has been printed by the world's nations in recent years, I am surprised that inflation hasn't been worse
    Last edited by Stringswinger; 01-24-2021 at 03:57 PM. Reason: spelling

  37. #86

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    I believe this was foreshadowed with the ES-275. A new hollow body arch top that was well received by critics and (mostly) praised by those who purchased them. But within a few years Gibson added a center-block and it became available only as a semi-hollow. I am not aware of another Gibson that could be fully hollow or semi-hollow with the same model number. But apparently sales were not enough to keep it in production in any configuration.

  38. #87

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    Before 2000 Gibson was still the main maker of actual Carve Top instruments.
    Yes there were a few fine luthiers in the Benedetto style, as well as Mark Campellone making Gibson L-7C and L-5C style Archtops.

    But since then the younger players have moved to mainly smaller laminate Archtops like Sadowsky, Westville, and o the Japanese luthiers.
    The good news is there are a plethora of used great Jazz Guitars available on the market to choose from. And a lot of great luthiers as well.

    Still I will certainly miss the great Gibson Archtops!

  39. #88

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    I miss Henry J too. At least he cared about jazz guitar.
    I doubt JC even knows what that is other than a money loosing product line.

  40. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by Betz View Post
    I believe this was foreshadowed with the ES-275. A new hollow body arch top that was well received by critics and (mostly) praised by those who purchased them. But within a few years Gibson added a center-block and it became available only as a semi-hollow. I am not aware of another Gibson that could be fully hollow or semi-hollow with the same model number. But apparently sales were not enough to keep it in production in any configuration.
    I can't think of another model I liked better when it first came out. It essentially would have been an ideal version of the Venitian-cutaway thinline full-hollow Ibanez I gigged with for years, but with better pickups. Alas! I was no longer gigging and could not justify the expense. You know what they say about timing....

  41. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k View Post
    Inflation is hitting the Asian market also. When the D’A EXL-1 first came out they were $700 and now they are $1500 and the 1st ones had ebony fretboards and better Korean QC.
    I wonder how much of this cost is due to the tariff wars we've been having with Asia for the last 4 years? I know that mainly tariffs were directed toward China. Not sure about Korea, although there was a lot of concern in Japan and other Asian countries that they would be targeted. But apparently China tariffs did affect Korean exports to some extent.

    South Korea will be one of ‘hardest hit economies’ if trade war breaks out | South China Morning Post

    Looking at Peerless prices there was a price increase shortly after I bought my Sunset 4-5 years ago, but prices have seemed pretty stable after that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Betz View Post
    I believe this was foreshadowed with the ES-275. A new hollow body arch top that was well received by critics and (mostly) praised by those who purchased them. But within a few years Gibson added a center-block and it became available only as a semi-hollow. I am not aware of another Gibson that could be fully hollow or semi-hollow with the same model number. But apparently sales were not enough to keep it in production in any configuration.
    I think the 275 was a fine guitar--heck I've got a Sunset, which is basically the same guitar--slightly larger body, Epiphone vs Gibson electronics. But at $4400 for the 275, they weren't exactly giving them away. While a pretty guitar, the appointments are rather plebeian--chrome-plated, basic industrial tailpiece. And a laminated top.

    It has always bugged me more than a little that Gibson takes a decent idea from the past and then markets it like they reinvented the wheel. And prices it accordingly.

    At half the price, they would have sold MANY more. (And at less than 1/4 the price the Sunset is a particular steal btw.)

    Peerless Sunset | Guitars 'n Jazz.

  42. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by Max405 View Post
    This thread has made me a little sad I must say.
    But, one thing is for certain. The company that created the benchmark that I judge all guitars after has done what they had to do to survive. If I owned a company that made cameras or calculators or even GPS devices and no one was buying them any more, would I continue to manufacture them just to please the few people who still buy them? Or would I just start building smart phones?
    Same deal here, should Gibson continue to make 175’s and L5’s for the 200 or so people here on the forum, when only (let’s face it, because it’s true), only one or 2 (Vinny and somebody else I couldn’t think of) is willing to pay the price for a new one? You be the judge.
    One last thing I’ll say. I am SOO glad I got my L5. I played it this morning and it is LIGHT YEARS better any other guitar I own. Endless sustain, effortless playability - its a bank vault versus everything else which are Tupperware containers. My L5 punches you right in the ear and my Emperor Regent tickles me underneath the balls. Sorry ladies. (Oh yeah, no ladies here read my posts)..
    The Gibson I love will always rest in a warm place in my heart. Still the only guitar I really want to buy but I won’t buy a new one anyway, because I’d rather save the money (for my Jetski) and find a good deal on one that was made 10 years ago.

    JD
    if I recall correctly, hasn’t every latest guitar you’ve owned been “the” one?

    I know, you’ve owned some fabulous guitars. I hope you never sell this one!

  43. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop View Post
    if I recall correctly, hasn’t every latest guitar you’ve owned been “the” one?
    I know, you’ve owned some fabulous guitars. I hope you never sell this one!
    Yeah I know smarty pants..
    This L5 is one of the ones.. let’s put it that way. It’s a great guitar.
    JD

  44. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Soloway View Post
    Just curious ... how many prominent CURRENT jazz guitarists can you all name who play a Gibson archtop. Lee Ritenour is the only one I can think of off hand. (And Tuck, but I think his are over 50 years old)
    Off the top of my head, Ron Affif, Jonathan Kreisberg, Russell Malone (sometimes, anyway), Martin Van Iterson, Jesse van Ruller, John Hart, Bireli Lagrene, Peter Mazza.

    John

  45. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Betz View Post
    I believe this was foreshadowed with the ES-275. A new hollow body arch top that was well received by critics and (mostly) praised by those who purchased them. But within a few years Gibson added a center-block and it became available only as a semi-hollow. I am not aware of another Gibson that could be fully hollow or semi-hollow with the same model number. But apparently sales were not enough to keep it in production in any configuration.
    The ES135 was a hollowbody in the 1950's and returned as a semi-hollow in the 1990's.

  46. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by Max405 View Post
    Yeah I know smarty pants..
    This L5 is one of the ones.. let’s put it that way. It’s a great guitar.
    JD
    You and me both Joe. I refer to it as "serial monogamy". I'm kind of hoping that the Turkish guitar sticks around. It's way too nice to wear out its welcome.

  47. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick View Post
    Who can afford a $10,000 guitar?
    If you were a cellist that would be a cheap instrument. I think cellos and archtops are comparable in construction etc.

    Guitarists tend to collectors so they have a different relationship with instruments. But remind me, how many Zeidlers does Peter Bernstein own?

  48. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Soloway View Post
    Just curious ... how many prominent CURRENT jazz guitarists can you all name who play a Gibson archtop. Lee Ritenour is the only one I can think of off hand. (And Tuck, but I think his are over 50 years old)
    Joshua Breakstone plays a Norlin era L5ces, actually has two nearly identical, one stays in Japan. Royce Campbell plays an L5ces or WesMo, I forget. He has a boutique archtop too, but still gigs and records very often with his Gibson. These two guys aren't in the limelight much, but they are steady workers in recording and gigging when they can. Both also are incredibly fine players.

  49. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    If you were a cellist that would be a cheap instrument. I think cellos and archtops are comparable in construction etc.

    Guitarists tend to collectors so they have a different relationship with instruments. But remind me, how many Zeidlers does Peter Bernstein own?
    My daughter plays cello. Back when she was in recitals and competitions “we” (ex-wife and I—I use quotes since I paid for it 100%) got her a used German cello for about $5000 as I recall. That was considered a good bargain. Since she went into grad school, she has set the cello aside, and it resides in my basement right now. Hopefully she will get back to it someday.

    I don’t think one can compare cello playing at a reasonably high level with playing guitar as a hobby though. If as many people played cello (or violin) as a hobby, you bet you could get a decent Chinese-made instrument for $400 at Cello Center.

  50. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff View Post
    I don’t think one can compare cello playing at a reasonably high level with playing guitar as a hobby though. If as many people played cello (or violin) as a hobby, you bet you could get a decent Chinese-made instrument for $400 at Cello Center.

    But that is not what we're doing .. We're comparing professional grade instruments vs. professional grade instruments ... Cello vs. guitar ... I mean 400 bucks will get you a fine guitar as well ... This one for example


  51. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Soloway View Post
    You and me both Joe. I refer to it as "serial monogamy". I'm kind of hoping that the Turkish guitar sticks around. It's way too nice to wear out its welcome.
    Hahaa.. I love it.
    Jim, I like that new guitar you just bought too.
    JD