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  1. #1

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    Hi folks. I've spent the last week researching and trying out archtop guitars, and have my eye on a Eastman AR805CE. Nothing in that price range sounded or felt as good in my hands.

    I put the pros and cons as follows:

    PROS — playability, feel, sound, weight, looks, price
    CON — the "stigma" of being made in China may hurt its resale someday

    I have traded or sold Fenders and Gibsons and other American made guitars and basses at good returns, but I am worried that an Eastman might not maintain its value as much. If this were a Gibson, I'd be playing it right now. (I know, I know. It would have also cost twice as much—or more—for the same quality.)

    Any input is welcomed! Thanks.


    Eastman AR805CE-eastman-ar805ce-jpg

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  3. #2

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    I think that it's true that the Eastman won't hold it's value like a Gibson. The upside is that they're entirely professional instruments that you don't have to worry about at the gig as much. I play mandolin in a jazz trio (I know, I know...) and I'm using a Chinese made instrument. It has a piezo pickup, and sounds as good plugged in as an instrument costing 10 times more.
    Besides, if we don't buy enough Chinese products, their GNP will dip, and they'll want to call in our debt!

  4. #3

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    con: check out the Harmony Central reviews. Several owners say the finish on Eastman's is thin and easily damaged. You might not care about that, though.

  5. #4

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    Hi Billd,
    If I' had to part with my L4 for some reason, I'd buy an Eastman. Incredible quality, they define a new value for money standard.

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
    con: check out the Harmony Central reviews. Several owners say the finish on Eastman's is thin and easily damaged. You might not care about that, though.
    I don't think it's a fault in the finish...rather, I think it's the type of finish. Pretty sure its nitro with a french polish....not thick and durable like a lot of poly finishes.

    As for Eastman's holding their value..I think they hold it pretty well. Sure, not like a Gibson...but I also think they sound much better

    BillD - I know you're looking at an Eastman, but I'd ask you to hold off on your purchase for a little bit. I'm introducing an archtop of equal to greater quality for significantly less. You can PM me for more details, but it should be available in a couple of months. Not knocking them...I own one that I love and paid a lot for (anniversary model), but it can be done for less.

  7. #6

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    Eastmans are great. I think one of the reasons the finish is thin is the theoretically enhanced resonance. I also read somewhere that Eastman has fixed the ease of dent and ding probability.

    Economically, if buying the Eastman saves you more than half as much again on price, then the added devaluation of a new Eastman will probably even out. Or, you may even make out better. If you are buying used, they seem to hold their used value. I just sold my El Rey, but wouldn't hesitate to buy another Eastman.

  8. #7

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    I have an Eastman AR810CE that I bought new in 2005... a great guitar. I am not planning on selling, but everything depreciates these days. Because everything depreciates is why I purchased my Benedetto Bravo used. I saved a chunk and was able to get a great guitar.

    There is actually a Benedetto Bravo on eBay with a starting bid of $2500 that currently has no bids. The auction ends ends in 6 hours. I have no affiliation with the seller, just watching to see what it sells for. A new Bravo will cost around $4400. I guess the point is everything depreciates before it appreciates... if it appreciates at all.

    I play both my Eastman and Benedetto. If the Eastman feels right, then get it. I really enjoy playing my 810ce.
    Last edited by Steve Z; 02-20-2010 at 09:23 AM.

  9. #8

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    Even if you plan on reselling, the decision is not that obvious.

    Scenario 1 - let's say you spend $2,000 on a new Eastman AR805CE, and you invest $7,000 in the stock market. You earn inflation adjusted tax adjusted 6% (compounded) on your stock investment (that's about the historical adjusted rate)

    or; Scenario 2 - you spend $9,000 on a new Gibson L5

    10 years later let's say you sell the Eastman for a inflation adjusted $1,500 (that's what I've seen used ones listed for). Your stock investment (tax adjusted and inflation adjusted) is now at... $12,500.

    12,500 + 1,500 = $14,000

    In scenario 2, you'd have to be able to sell the L5 for $14,000 in today's dollars (i.e. inflation adjusted) to be as well off. It's possible it would sell for that much or more if becomes a sought after collectors item. It's also possible it wouldn't sell for that much.

  10. #9

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    After all my research and thinking about it for a while, then posting here to help make up my mind, I decided to pull the trigger this morning. I went in with just enough cash to cover the price I was willing to pay, plus tax. I made my offer and said I'd pay cash if they'd do it. Success.

    It is very rare for me to have a guitar feel so comfortable in my hands right from the start. Over the past week, I have probably "kicked the tires" of a couple dozen guitars of various makes and models in the $2-3K range (Gibson, Gretsch, Epiphone, Ibanez, Hagstrom, and a couple of other Eastman models). None felt as great as this one. And it sounds brilliant acoustically.

    Thanks again for everyone's input.

  11. #10

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    Well, to ease your mind on Eastman finish issues.....mind you this is just my experience....but the 805 I had from '05 had all kinds of finish problems.
    The 803 I have now has none. I think they have worked on their formula or curing process or something.
    Congrats on the guitar!

  12. #11

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    I think the Eastmans have established themselves as serious, high quality instruments (and they are) and have managed to shake-off some of that Made In China stigma. Consequently you won't lose on one of these like you would if you bought say an Ibanez Artcore . They're not in the same class.

  13. #12

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    I think the "made in China" stigma thing will change/fade over time. I bought most of my guitars in the '80's - at the time I could not afford Gibson or other US brands, so went for the Japanese models available, such as Ibanez. I remember they were not thought of as particularly posh, or top-end guitars, but now they seem increasingly well regarded, and even sought-after for some models.

    And now the lower end of the market seems to have largely moved to countries like Korea and China. Sort of seems like the same process happening all over again - what will the situation be in 20 years time I wonder? Will we be seeing rare sought-after vintage Eastmans for sale at inflated prices on E-bay? Will I be wishing I had snapped a few up while they were easy to get hold of?

  14. #13

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    After neglecting my Eastman AR805CE for a while I started playing it again. However there are certain things about it that annoy me. This was the primary guitar that I used for almost 8 years.

    Frets: I don't know if the frets are different than my AR371CE or AR503CE, but I find on this guitar, I struggle with fretting to get a clear tone without any annoying buzz. The guitar has been seen and adjusted by several luthiers. I had some of the grooves in the nut built up the last time. I wonder if it's the fret profile. My eyes are just not good enough to compare the profile to my other Eastmans.

    Of course there is still odd little unidentified ring or buzz that does not seem to be fret buzz.

    I sometimes wonder if replacing the pickup and electronics would be a good idea. Not sure if they contribute to the buzz. Not sure how good the stock pickup is.

    The guitar is a little battle scarred from collisions with microphones. At this point I doubt the guitar has much financial value. Not sure if it makes sense to put money into a guitar that I might sell at some point.

    I did bring it out recently and played it live with a mic on the guitar and guitar plugged in. I enjoyed playing it out again.

    I even toyed with buying a Pisano, but I must some of my experience with the AR805CE hold me back.

    I think 2005 is still relatively early for an Eastman. Not sure if the AR805CE has improved since that time.


    Danielle

  15. #14

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    2005 is early for Eastman, and they definitely have come a long way since.

    That said, if this was your main axe for eight years, perhaps the frets are simply worn and it needs a refret - or at least a level and crown job. It makes a HUGE difference, as in night and day, in terms of playability. Costs about $250-300 USD on average. Not everything can be rectified by setup alone, especially when worn, uneven frets are involved.

  16. #15

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    I have a 2006 AR810. The guitar has a great tone but with annoying buzzing from the floating pick-up and pick-guard. I have a hate-love relation with the guitar but it seems that it comes from the pick-up assembly. The problem is that I love the tone I get from the pick-up....

    The pick-up is a Kent Armstrong single coils with the poles adjusted for bronze string. One day I will either:

    1- Replace it with a thinner, neck mounted pick-up and uses nickel strings
    2- Get rid of the pick-up as I use the guitar acoustically most of the time.

    If you finaly find that a significant portion of the noise comes from the electronics please let us know.

    And, yes, the finish is fragile.

    Daniel

  17. #16

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    We might have different pickups. The one I have is non adjustable. I always assumed it was configured for the D'addario jazz light round wound set that comes with the guitar.

    I often suspected something is loose in that pickguard assembly but do not know what it is? Pickup, pot, wiring or something else. Might make sense to go totally acoustic for a while just for diagnostic purposes.

  18. #17

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    One way to find out what is buzzing on a guitar is to use a piece of small dia. plastic tubing as a stethoscope. Just put one end near your ear and the other end near the suspected source of the buzz. Play the note that sets off the buzz and often the source can be located this way and then dampened.

  19. #18

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    I actually bought an automotive style stethoscope quite some time ago. I can not say it's ever really helped me really diagnose a problem with in any certainty. Living alone does not help. I find you often want another set of hands for this type of stuff.

    One thing I find odd about this pickup installation, is that even though it's a floating pickup, I can't view it as really floating under the 6th string. The pickup the way it's installed puts significant force down on the top with a small pad between the pickup and the guitar top. I am sure this is not helping with any noise from the pickguard assembly as a lot of vibration is going right into the pickguard via the pickup.

    Danielle

  20. #19

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    As noted, 2005 is very early for Eastman. They have come a long way and their prices reflect the changes. Without seeing the guitar, my opinion is of limited value, but my gut feeling is that the cost of improving the guitar is going to be quite high relative to its resale value. You don't seem to really be attached to it any longer, so why not just sell the guitar and put the money into something that works for you without a lot of trouble and cost?

  21. #20

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    It's easy to take the pickguard and pickup off the guitar, but leave the whole apparatus suspended by the wire running out of the f-hole. You don't literally let it hang there in free space under its own weight, of course; you set it down on something. But this will allow you to play the guitar acoustically without those components present. Then you can tell if the buzzing comes from something there or not.

    I recently did this with my DeArmond equipped L-5. I had been poking around inside with a mirror looking at braces, dreading that I'd find something unglued. But no, it was just where the pickup wire was held to the pickguard by a small plastic bracket. It had come out of the bracket and was vibrating. I put it all back carefully and all is well with the world. I wouldn't have been able to tell without removing the various attachments and strumming the guitar acoustically.

  22. #21

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    I am going to look at this with a friend tomorrow afternoon.

    I wonder if there is a way to improve on the way that Eastman mounted that pickup. I would like to try and find some good photos showing mounting schemes for that style of pickup. It looks like this one is attached by a relatively thin metal bracket that extends from the pickup and is mounted to the bottom of the pickguard with small screws that do not go through the pickguard. Maybe once we get the pickguard off the guitar we can bend the bracket and so that the pickup does rest on the guitar top.

    I did pad the cable where it goes through the F hole and I thought that helped. The cable has a tendency to make contact with the F hole binding.

    She keeps telling me this is the best sounding guitar that I have. I have to admit I really do like the sound especially when you take the time necessary to mix both the acoustic and electric sound. Although I am sure these little mechanical vibrations and associated noise affect a live sound, I tend to find them more irritating when playing quietly at home.

    I do think of getting another archtop. However, I really like 16", 25" scale, 1 3/4 nut, and I do not often see alternatives with those specs. I do have the Eastman AR503CE that I like, but it certainly does not have the acoustic tone of the AR805CE. I toyed with springing for a Benedetto Bravo but really question if that would give me anything that I don't get with the AR503CE.

    I put a rubber band on the strings right where the strings exist the tailpiece thinking that should take care of any possible buzzing of vibration where the string comes out of the tailpiece. I do have a set of Pyramid strings here with silk wraps on all strings that I have not tried yet.


    Danielle

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanielleOM
    I am going to look at this with a friend tomorrow afternoon.

    Maybe once we get the pickguard off the guitar we can bend the bracket and so that the pickup does rest on the guitar top.
    Danielle
    That would be the best way to get a lot of buzzing.

    The Eastmans often have a felt between the top and the pickguard. Sometime the felt barely touch the top, sometime it firmly press on the top. I had that felt removed as I want my top to vibrate freely to maximize the acoustic response. I am like you and think that there is nothing better than mixing the mic and pick-up tone. If one relies only (and always...) on the pick-up amplified tone then that buzzing from the electronic is not a big problem.

    I think that one of the problems (at least for MY guitar) is that the 2 screws that secure the pick-guard on the side of the neck are too far from the pick-up. It is like that because the end of the neck/fret board is thinner as it is a floating fretboard not touching the arched top. One solution that I am looking at, for my AR810, would be to add more support to the floating pick-guard with screws in the side of the thin portion of the fretboard. Does it makes sense to you?

    My pick-guard buzzing could be loud but not always, when not too loud it still add an annoying '''prrfft'' on the acoustic tone, at least for some notes. Otherwise the guitar has a terrific tone. I would go with a neckmounted pickup if you like the tone and find that your problem comes from the electronics. Archtop.com is a good place.

    I am very interested to see how you will solve that problem.

    Daniel

  24. #23

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    Since you'll have a helper, ask your helper to repeatedly play a note that stongly produces the buzz while you move your ear around the guitar to try to localize the source. Once you find the general area try touching or pushing various parts of the instrument in that area, while your helper continues playing. Note any locations that make the buzz change or temporarily go away.
    If you find the general area, look for any suspect joints, interferences, fasteners, etc. If you find any suspects, experiment with the simplest solutions first, such as a bit of padding, tightening or repositioning. When I've used this approach I've often found that a bit of felt or a shim solved the problem. In one case, using a guitar pick as a shim solved the problem.
    Since you removed the felt from the pickguard, I think you'll find that's part of the problem. A pickguard with only two support points is much more likely to cause something to buzz.
    Last edited by KirkP; 07-02-2015 at 01:01 PM.

  25. #24

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    It's my understanding that the felt on the bottom of this style of pickguard, near the tailpiece should not be touching the guitar top. It's only there to protect the top in case you put too much pressure on the pickguard. If it touches you dampen the guitar top and also transmit more vibration to the pickguard assembly.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanielleOM
    Daniel, I was having difficulty following the alteration you have in mind. What is the problem that you expect that alteration to solve?

    Danielle
    The alteration was to make sure that the pick-gard could not vibrate/move relative to the side of the fretboard/neck. I think that I have buzzing coming from the pick-gard rubbing/vibrating against the side of the fretboard/neck. The screws on my guitar hold the pick-gard against the thicker part of the neck. Adding screws closer to the pick-up would improve the rigidity I think but I am not sure that the neck is thick enough in this place.


    It is nice that your pick-up doesn't touch the top anymore. This could cause major buzzing. If you have ringing this might be something else. I use 13-57 gauge string and broke my tail-piece twice because of metal fatigue. I changed the tailpiece for a Benedetto style that I got from Stewmac. I am under the impression that it improved the tone, less brassiness and warmer. Some knowledgeable persons on this forum think that it should not make a significant difference. Maybe it is all psychosomatic but I think that it improved the tone. The Benedetto style is only wood, no metal.