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He is the most succesfull non-singing jazz guitarist there was since the 60s. I thought he'd be an interesting benchmark to compare Beato against. Can you think of a better player?
Originally Posted by HeyNow
We are talking guitar on a guitar forum. I have no idea who or how many listen to Coltrane. I aslo have absolutely no idea why you're mentioning a saxophone player in a discussion about signature guitars on a guitar forum. Originally Posted by HeyNow
I still guess you ran out of important jazz guitar players and had nowhere else to turn than Coltrane and Parker
You mean like the hard evidence you are presenting that the tarnishing of Gibson's name with Beato will hurt their sales long term? Originally Posted by HeyNow
That is up for debate Originally Posted by HeyNow
A Look at the Vintage Guitar Market in 2019
I'm not sure that 150 units of flying Vs and 150 units of SGs actually qualifies as "selling"
https://guitar.com/news/gear-news/gibson-authentic-hendrix-signature-jimi-flying-v-sg/
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01-07-2021 04:17 PM
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Here we differ. I do. And it's not this or that generation. It's not "kids today." It's the nature of life: the young have immature tastes. It doesn't mean they are bad or that none of them know anything (or have great talent.) They just know less. It takes time to learn things in depth, which all older people have had (-though many of them have wasted the opportunity and have tastes no better than they did as teens) but no younger people have had. Originally Posted by HeyNow
The teens who danced to Duke Ellington and Count Basie were also immature, but this does not mean the music of Ellington and Basie was "kid stuff." It just means they were teens. It's not a fault; it's part of human development, and in the scheme of things it is but a short (though intense) part of life. Teens who read Shakespeare are also immature. People in their 30s and 40s re-reading Shakespeare draw a lot more from the work than they knew how to at 16 or 17.
I've long been puzzled by the non sequitur that since today's children are tomorrow's leaders, we should seek their counsel today.
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I think that’s rubbish. I like a lot more contemporary popular music than when I was 21. Which is not to say I like all of it, but at least I will now consent to listen to music which isn’t Bartok.
What’s changed? I’m no longer a snob and I listen to music for what it is, not judge it for what it isn’t. So I count that as more sophisticated, but you won’t find me going on about how everything is terrible now. Miserable
way to live one’s life.
(EDIT: I suppose that goes with Mark’s point to some extent; but I did really like Bartok, it’s wasn’t a pretence. My ears were attuned more to that music. Over time I’ve widened my interests.)
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OTOH there are plenty of people who listen only to music of their generation, with a comfortable aesthetic and judge that to be ‘superior’, whereas in fact what it is always about is nostalgia.
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Who are you talking to? Originally Posted by christianm77
I said nothing snobbish.
I'm a Stones and AC/DC fan, for f*ck sake.
I never was a snob. Evidently you once were. Congratulations on maturing and leaving behind the callow teen you once were.
I never said everything is terrible now.
(I did say "everything is terrible now" when I was 16, though.)
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Yeah I don’t think my post really disproves yours. Sorry if I lumped you in with the general moaning old farts. I just get so sick of their endless negativity. That’s not what you are saying. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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Right ... Marks is one of the good guys Originally Posted by christianm77
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I think this is a very limited way to think. Yes older people had more time, but time is not all you need to form tastes or learn things in depth. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
There is also talent, intelligence, work ethic, and environment. A 19 year old Miles Davis joined the Charlie Parker Quintet. There are probably hundreds of such *famous* examples of young people being more knowledgeable and mature and talented in music than 99.99999% of older people on the planet
Kenny Burrell was 25 when he recorded Introducing Kenny Burrell
Probably millions of such examples that we don't know about.
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If you're listening to trite music, you're spending time listening to trite music. I don't see how that's sophisticated. Originally Posted by christianm77
Just because you don't judge something for what it isn't, doesn't mean it isn't what it is.
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I was always looking to hear things that came before my time. It was something of a thing among some of my contemporaries. ("Where did this come from? We have to work our way back...") Originally Posted by christianm77
I'm not sure what "the music of [my] generation" means.
Curiously, I just googled rock stars born in 1958, the year I was born. The list includes Michael Jackson (-who I first heard when he was 5 or 6, meaning I was 5 or 6 too), Madonna (who I first heard in the late '70s and did not care for), Prince (-who I first heard even later though I think he was great), and Ice T (-who I never cared for as a rapper but appreciate as an actor).
There's no rock singer who means as much to me as Sinatra or Louis Armstrong or Ella Fitzgerald, though Dylan and Leonard Cohen mean a lot to me as not-so-great-singers who wrote some great songs.
I always loved The Band, who sounded like they were from a previous generation. ;o)
I'm not sure how old I was when I first heard Charlie Christian---must have been an adult---but he knocked me out and still does. I'd rather listen to Charlie than Hendrix, who was my first guitar hero. (And I still listen to Jimi sometimes. But there's another rabbit hole: Jimi was influenced by Ike Turner and Curtis Mayfield and Cornell Dupree and so many others---had to check THEM out too. Still really did Cornell's playing. Steve Cropper's too.)
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Sooo...no connection between Metheny and Gibson. Metheny has sig guitars with other brands btw. Originally Posted by Lobomov
That wasn't the question, but you've proven my point nonetheless. If you don't know how many people listen to Coltrane, how do you know Beato is more influential?I have no idea who or how many listen to Coltrane.
You asked what single jazz player is more influential than Beato. I named several including guitar players.I aslo have absolutely no idea why you're mentioning a saxophone player in a discussion about signature guitars on a guitar forum.
How many do you want? You asked for a single jazz player. I named more than one guitar player. That's what your gripe is?I still guess you ran out of important jazz guitar players and had nowhere else to turn than Coltrane and Parker
Wow, ok so you want to massage the definition of 'selling'. Alright - not much to discuss here.I'm not sure that 150 units of flying Vs and 150 units of SGs actually qualifies as "selling"
https://guitar.com/news/gear-news/gibson-authentic-hendrix-signature-jimi-flying-v-sg/
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and he was young (early-mid 20s) when he made the music that knocks you out. I don't think he had bad taste in music. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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You have to give a long lead (leash) to the guitar companies, these days. They are trying mightily to keep the market for guitars and amps alive and (if possible) growing. It's a moribund market for all intents and purposes. Sales of guitars seem to center around flat top acoustics, these days. Singer/songwriters is where the action is--for young people who are getting into playing.
As compared to back in the early-60s (when I started playing), there are lots more women learning to play--and write songs.
Gibson, Fender, and others have things pretty well sussed out, IMO. I work with quite a few younger guitarists in my part of Virginia. They have NO interest in 17" x 3-3/8" archtop guitars--carved or laminated. Most of them are intimidated by even thinline ES-series guitars. It's all Strats or Les Pauls, or else flat top acoustics with on-board electronics.
Meanwhile, I will continue to play 17" and 18" archtops for as long as I'm able. I seriously doubt if American guitar companies will cater to my "old-fashioned" tastes and interests in guitars, but that's okay.
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On forums like this music is usually judged by the objective merits like how many chords does it contain and stuff like that .. It is rarely judged by the emotional response it evokes.
Further more that emotional response is grounded in the zeitgeist at the time of release.
Judging music from a time, where you never was a part of the zeitgeist is a tricky thing.
To take an example .. I don't get the Ziggy Stardust record, but could never dream of claiming that it was shite. A lot of early 70s music as a whole is a bit of a mystery to me, be it Velvet Underground or The Wings ... Even Led Zeppelin I find kinda taxing. But that is me and not the music.
After all music is art that is designed to touch people and if it is popular then it means it touches a lot of people .. just dismissing it all as trite is simply pissing on your fellow human beings.Last edited by Lobomov; 01-07-2021 at 06:42 PM.
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You missed the word "Currently" What single jazz guitarist is more influential than Rick Beato currently! Originally Posted by HeyNow
Let us try again. It's January the 7th in the year 2021
Can you name a single jazz guitarist that currently inspires more people to pick up their guitar and play than Rick Beato?
We are not talking about how many where inspired to play the guitar in 1945 (CC), 1969 (Wes), 1974 (Pass) or 1982 (Metheny). I'm talking about people inspired to pick up and play their guitar in the last couple of years.
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Personally, I congratulate Mr. Beato. This is an acknowledgment of his reach in the guitar community in social media. He is among those doing the most to educate people about music in general, and I would guess that most of his audience is guitar players. Guitar is also his main instrument.
Many guitar manufacturers are making deals with social media influencers and trying to reach out to new markets. This makes a lot of sense. It might not result in direct sales of a Rick Beato signature model, but it creates exposure of the brand using someone that many admire. It does so at very little cost. I think it makes sense in an evolving market.
Beato is a very capable and knowledgeable guitarist. I have no idea how his being an endorser would cheapen the brand.
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I thinkyou are trolling, but still ... Originally Posted by Lobomov
People coming to YT for help and answers,were not inspired by those who have help and answers on offer (for sale).
Your own example. Someone on YT told you the great wisdom: "If you do not want to hit a string, you must miss it ", only he did it in much more words, decorated with hi res clips and animation. You came to him because you were inspired by Steve Vai if i remember correctly, or maybe Van Halen,.
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I didn't get the memo that you can't be inspired by those guys after a certain time period. But I don't know why you even brought up jazz guitarists. The Gibson Artist collection, linked to earlier, has no jazz players. Originally Posted by Lobomov
You were proven wrong on multiple fronts so you just keep pivoting to stuff that has nothing to do with the conversation. You brought up Pat Metheny out of nowhere. He's not a Gibson artist.
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Originally Posted by Vladan
I'm assuming you're talking about Troy Grady ... Awful presentation, where he every time spends 20 minutes explaining something that could be explained in 2 minutes, but .. !!
He was the first teacher ever that actually explained how to miss that string .. All prior teachers either just stated that you had to miss it without any instruction .. or claimed that you would somehow magically learn to miss it if you practiced slowly to a metronome.
Actually I came to him thanks to the Youtube algorithm .. Can't remember if he was suggested in my feed or it was one of those things that just played randomly after I watched another video.
But man .. Those vids did more for my playing that any educational material before or since .. Two thumbs up to that guy. Love him for it.
The Vai stuff came much later .. I caught him during his early stuff that is 100% Yngwie, whom I was never really into.
Also he showed us that there is no string, which was a cool bonus!
Swipe picking (another 20 minute presentation - Start at 4:00 to skip marketing BS)
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I guess my English is too poor to convey the idea. Originally Posted by Lobomov
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Sutherland has a huge collection of guitars. So did Chinery. Originally Posted by HeyNow
Last edited by Woody Sound; 01-07-2021 at 09:20 PM.
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Originally Posted by Vladan
Your English was fine
I think that the main issue this heated debate here centers around is that apparently you can only be an influence thru being a player, but not a teacher
Tho if I mentioned Ted Greene .. Who knows, maybe some of the old grumpy boomers would chime in and praise him? .. After all he is one of us! (Gabba Gabba Hey!)
Imagine someone like Ted Greene having access to youtube?
Seems like finding joy in the fact that something inspires people to play music is not really the spirit of many here .. cause you know .. it's all trite if you don't drink at the fountain of The Christian Saint Charlie
Anyways I digress ... A hopefully affordable TV Yellow Double Cut Gibson LP Special with P90s doesn't sound all that bad at all
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In the 90's I had a Howard Roberts Fusion I got from a liquidation cheap. Pretty nice guitar but fugly as hell
I just wonder how many were actually listening to Howard in the 90's?
I'll admit I never listened to him even though I had his chord melody book in my stash.
What I probably would've gone for personally back then was a Zappa Roxy SG signature,
but Gibson wouldn't do that until 25 years after Frank's death
I can't recall when Gibson started endorsing non-jazzers. Maybe with the Jimmy Page and Angus models or Ace Frehley? lol
I suppose Trini wasn't jazz per seLast edited by sasquatch; 01-07-2021 at 11:59 PM.
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If anything, this move speaks of the importance of YouTube (as the most popular video platform) on music nowadays. Most young people interested in guitar basically get their music education (meaning the music they listen to, not musical studies) from guitar talk shows, not actual artists and bands. Basically it's picture over sound, and TVs version of the 21 century. But I don't think a guitar show can ever inspire somebody to pickup a guitar in the first place.
It also speaks of the importance of drama on the internet , which is a thing marketed heavily on Beatos channel, and on the channels of his usual co-hosts. Which is a reason I've never really watched them, despite the generally good quality of the content..
This style of guitar is great, so it will probably be a great guitar!
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We were not talking "influence", we were talking "inspiration (to start playing guitar)". Likes of two mentioned YT personalities are not inspiration. You already play (and have guitar) before you come to them. Originally Posted by Lobomov
They can influence you in a way that you do not give up, think some goals are achievable and so on.
From little I watched, guitar brand (type, model ) is not really significant for what they have to sell.
My Band camp
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