The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    I mean this is surprise to me too. Earlier in the thread I thought it was mentioned that Gibson already issued signature guitars for youtube personalities in other genres. I don't know who they are and didn't investigate it.
    Im genuinely curious.

    Johnny A might be an example. He is not well known, but he, imo, makes up for that with virtuoso playing and a unique design on the guitar. He’s played live with heavy hitters.

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  3. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by HeyNow
    Is there an interview with a well-known guitarist that has listed Rick Beato as an influence?
    So only over the hill players are allowed a signature guitar?

    I mean for an well known guitarist to list some-one as an influence then that player needs to influencial, which happens in a players youth and then that player needs times to get well know. A well known players influence lies at least 15 years in the past.

    So no signature guitars to you if you didn't sell records back in 2005??

  4. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by HeyNow
    That's your opinion. I'll list more facts as I think that is productive in stating a stance.

    Dominant = "most important, powerful, or influential" - how is he dominant? Because he has 2.05m YT followers? There are musicians with way more followers and weekly YouTube viewers.

    Justin Bieber's official YT channel has 60m followers. You think Rick Beato is more of a household name than Justin Bieber?

    Lil Wayne has almost 10m followers and single videos with 600m+ views. Yes - Justin Bieber and Lil Wayne both have played guitar live/in videos.

    John Mayer has way more YouTube video views and could sell out an arena tomorrow. His official channel has less than 2m followers, but there are a lot of videos posted under other users. On Instagram, John has 5m+ followers. Rick has 280k.

    You think Rick Beato has been more of an influence on existing guitarists than Slash, Jimi Hendrix, Joe Perry, Chuck Berry (artists with Gibson models)? Do you think Rick Beato's YouTube video views outnumbers Guns n Roses, Jimi Hendrix, Aerosmith, or Chuck Berry? I won't even include record and ticket sales or radio plays of Guns n Roses, Jimi Hendrix, Aerosmith, or Chuck Berry.

    Amongst guitar "influencers", Paul Davids has more YT subscribers (2.13m) and views.
    Unlike Jim I'm bored and so don't mind replying.

    What you're saying it that we need a Justin Bieber signature guitar and not a Rick Beato one?

  5. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    So only over the hill players are allowed a signature guitar?

    I mean for an well known guitarist to list some-one as an influence then that player needs to influencial, which happens in a players youth and then that player needs times to get well know. A well known players influence lies at least 15 years in the past.

    So no signature guitars to you if you didn't sell records back in 2005??
    1) I disagree RE: influences. A player's influences are always changing, imo. There's no reason somebody putting out content right now can't influence a player today, or be influenced by somebody a few years ago. Charlie Parker influenced his contemporaries. The great players are constantly learning.

    2) Rick Beato's been in the music industry for decades, so he is no spring chicken. I'm not arguing he is too young to have a Sig guitar.

  6. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    Unlike Jim I'm bored and so don't mind replying.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    What you're saying it that we need a Justin Bieber signature guitar and not a Rick Beato one?
    Not really. More responding to Jim talking about Rick Beato as a 'dominant figure in the dominant media' and saying I am denying 'reality'.

    But, to me, it would make more sense for Justin Bieber to get a signature Gibson, based on his history of becoming famous playing guitar and his reach. I think a lot of older people don't know Justin Bieber gained notoriety from videos of him playing guitar and singing as a teenager.

  7. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by HeyNow
    1) I disagree RE: influences. A player's influences are always changing, imo. There's no reason somebody putting out content right now can't influence a player today, or be influenced by somebody a few years ago. Charlie Parker influenced his contemporaries. The great players are constantly learning.

    2) Rick Beato's been in the music industry for decades, so he is no spring chicken. I'm not arguing he is too young to have a Sig guitar.

    The thing is that the signature guitar should not be given to players that HAVE been an influence, but to players that ARE an influence. Beato is a huge influence on guitar players all over the world .. in all ages. Justin Bieber is not. Nor is Lil Wayne.

    With regards to influencial guitar player at this moment in time, it's hard to think of someone bigger than Beato. The old guys like John Mayer already have had their model, I remember 3 different JM models.

    You mention Paul Davis. I wouldn't be surprised if he is offered an endorsement soon enough.
    I mean someone like Tom Quale that is strictly 100% youtube and does no live gigs has been already. His Ibanez is a stellar model.

    I mean .. Biggest jazz guitar legend ever Pat Metheny had sold has had 45 recordings and sold 20 million records according to his homepage
    Pat Metheny : Awards

    That is a reach of 450,000 people pr record on average.

    Beato reaches much more than that with every single video and he is pushing a LOT of jazz content into the homes of people everywhere.

    Apart from the fact that you don't like him personally .. What beef can you have with him in terms of music?

  8. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by HeyNow




    Not really. More responding to Jim talking about Rick Beato as a 'dominant figure in the dominant media' and saying I am denying 'reality'.
    I think he meant dominant guitar player in the dominant media ... I mean .. else we've got PewDiePie with +100 million subs

    Quote Originally Posted by HeyNow


    Quote Originally Posted by HeyNow
    But, to me, it would make more sense for Justin Bieber to get a signature Gibson, based on his history of becoming famous playing guitar and his reach. I think a lot of older people don't know Justin Bieber gained notoriety from videos of him playing guitar and singing as a teenager.
    Too late now as that star has faded .. but sure, a Justin Bieber guitar back when that was his shtick would have been brilliant, at least if the result would be that more teenage boys would take up guitar ... if nothing else then in the hopes of swaying teenage girls

  9. #83

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    I was not aware that Justin Bieber played guitar at all. (I was familiar with his name but not his music.) Here's a selection of his performances with a guitar starting when he was quite young.



  10. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    The thing is that the signature guitar should not be given to players that HAVE been an influence, but to players that ARE an influence.
    These guitarists that have influenced aren't going to stop influencing players today, or any time soon. They still are an influence. There will still be new guitarists every year that are influenced by Jimi Hendrix, Slash, Jimmy Page, etc.

    Beato is a huge influence on guitar players all over the world .. in all ages. Justin Bieber is not. Nor is Lil Wayne.
    How are you measuring influence? I've outlined, if it's by YT subscribers or views, my facts are there. My opinion, but there are more guitar players playing Justin Bieber songs than Rick Beato songs. I also think you'd find more guitar players that could list a Justin Bieber song than a Rick Beato song. Rick Beato is probably more influential in teaching concepts to more novice players. I get that.

    Moving forward, we can only speculate, but would a new Jimi Hendrix guitar sell more than a Rick Beato guitar this year? If the price is the same, I would say Jimi Hendrix. Why? Historical data. Jimi Hendrix sig guitars have provably generated way more revenue than any Rick Beato guitar. And why has Jimi Hendrix sold so many Sig guitars in the past? Things that Rick Beato has not done/accomplished.

    I mean someone like Tom Quale that is strictly 100% youtube and does no live gigs has been already. His Ibanez is a stellar model.
    I don't see what that has to do with Gibson. Gibson as a brand and cultural impact is on a different level vs Ibanez.

    I mean .. Biggest jazz guitar legend ever Pat Metheny had sold has had 45 recordings and sold 20 million records according to his homepage
    Pat Metheny : Awards

    That is a reach of 450,000 people pr record on average.

    Beato reaches much more than that with every single video and he is pushing a LOT of jazz content into the homes of people everywhere.
    Pat has been a huge influence and will continue. Heavy jazz musicians and fans really respect him as an innovator. I don't see what that has to do with Gibson.

    Apart from the fact that you don't like him personally .. What beef can you have with him in terms of music?
    Where did I say "I don't like him personally"?

  11. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    I was not aware that Justin Bieber played guitar at all. (I was familiar with his name but not his music.) Here's a selection of his performances with a guitar starting when he was quite young.


    This was part of my point, but I didn't want to say it explicitly a lot of older cats (most people here!) don't have a pulse on what is going on with younger generations.

  12. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by patshep
    Just what every jaded old white man needs
    this. and beato will shill the living bejesus out of that model, lol.

    if gibson had any clue they would make a signature model for a certain youtuber with over 4 million subscribers who actually interests young people in playing the guitar by making videos with up to 11 million views.

  13. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    I think he meant dominant guitar player in the dominant media ... I mean .. else we've got PewDiePie with +100 million subs
    Yes I extrapolated to a 'figure that plays guitar' for the sake of argument. Ironically, Rick doesn't consider himself a guitar player.

  14. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by HeyNow
    These guitarists that have influenced aren't going to stop influencing players today, or any time soon. They still are an influence. There will still be new guitarists every year that are influenced by Jimi Hendrix, Slash, Jimmy Page, etc.
    As far as I am aware all those players have signature guitar being sold as today


    Quote Originally Posted by HeyNow
    Moving forward, we can only speculate, but would a new Jimi Hendrix guitar sell more than a Rick Beato guitar this year? If the price is the same, I would say Jimi Hendrix. Why? Historical data. Jimi Hendrix sig guitars have provably generated way more revenue than any Rick Beato guitar. And why has Jimi Hendrix sold so many Sig guitars in the past? Things that Rick Beato has not done/accomplished.
    Given that Fender has discontinued their custom shop hendrix models many years ago and their affordable models recently then I am willing to wager that a Beato model released will outsell a Jimi Hendrix model in 2021.

    Gibson forray into the Jimi Hendrix market is a very limited relase of SGs and Flying Vs priced at 10k and obviously aimed at the wealthy nostalgic boomer market and not any young players.

    Over a lifetime Jimi off course is much larger than Beato, but in order to sell guitars in 2020 then I'm willing to wager that a TV Yellow Double Cut LP Special will outsell a comparable Jimi Hendrix model

    Quote Originally Posted by HeyNow
    I don't see what that has to do with Gibson. Gibson as a brand and cultural impact is on a different level vs Ibanez.
    Both Gibson and Ibanez are businesses only concerned with making as big a profit selling guitars as they can. Are you seriously telling me that a Beato model will tarnish their brand and impact future guitar sales?

    Quote Originally Posted by HeyNow
    Pat has been a huge influence and will continue. Heavy jazz musicians and fans really respect him as an innovator. I don't see what that has to do with Gibson.
    Actually if we go down that road then nothing you mention has anything to do with Gibson. Gibson's purpose is to make money selling guitars so their shareholders earn as much as possible. It is not to cater to the Boomer sense of legacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by HeyNow
    Rick Beato is probably more influential in teaching concepts to more novice players. I get that.
    This is a jazz forum, so Im going to ignore bieber and ed sheeran and such people.

    I don't think there isn't a single jazz player currently that inspires more people to play and practice guitar than Rick Beato. (Ok, he is more fusion than jazz, but I see fusion as part of the jazz family)

    Are we not thrilled that signature guitars go to the jazz community or do we feel that jazz guitar models should be limited to Benson, Scofield and Metheny?


  15. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    As far as I am aware all those players have signature guitar being sold as today
    Yes - that's why I've been referencing them. They aren't just random famous guitar players. They are all from the list that Jim sent of Gibson Artist guitars. You've missed my point.

    Over a lifetime Jimi off course is much larger than Beato, but in order to sell guitars in 2020 then I'm willing to wager that a TV Yellow Double Cut LP Special will outsell a comparable Jimi Hendrix model
    Just because?


    Both Gibson and Ibanez are businesses only concerned with making as big a profit selling guitars as they can. Are you seriously telling me that a Beato model will tarnish their brand and impact future guitar sales?
    Definitely tarnishes the brand. That's exactly been my point. I explicitly wrote it. The artists I've mentioned, then there is Rick. You've missed my point.

    Look at the Gibson buys Mesa threads on TGP or the comments on the announcement from Mesa on their IG. It's 90% negative.

    The brand has been tarnished and is not getting better. "Play Authentic" campaign where the CMO admits it was his worst mistake.

    KKR - the new owners don't care about longevity. They will wring as much out of the reputation and brand (even you wrote Gibson has a reputation) and then cash out however they can, ASAP.

    Actually if we go down that road then nothing you mention has anything to do with Gibson. Gibson's purpose is to make money selling guitars so their shareholders earn as much as possible. It is not to cater to the Boomer sense of legacy.
    I was saying Pat Methany has nothing to do with Gibson or Gibson sig guitars.

    I don't think there isn't a single jazz player currently that inspires more people to play and practice guitar than Rick Beato. (Ok, he is more fusion than jazz, but I see fusion as part of the jazz family)
    Wow, there's a hot take. If people here are inspired more by Rick Beato than Pat Methany, Wes Montgomery, Joe Pass, Charlie Parker, Charlie Christian, Coltrane, I'd love to hear it. I think you're just trolling now

  16. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by HeyNow
    This was part of my point, but I didn't want to say it explicitly a lot of older cats (most people here!) don't have a pulse on what is going on with younger generations.
    I certainly don't, and don't care to. I stopped reviewing albums back in the early '80s because it dawned on me I no longer cared what was new or the latest. I'm more interested in what I'm doing than in what others are doing, though this doesn't mean I have no interest in what others are doing---it's not a priority. I am more interested in things of lasting merit. I don't have to hear them when they're new. (I didn't hear Charlie Christian when he was new, or Herb Ellis or Wes Montgomery for that matter.)

    As a rule, young people are the worst judges of musical merit. (And pretty much everything else but especially food and movies.) Keeping up with them is no way for an adult to spend his life. (Unless he's trying to sell them something.)

  17. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    I certainly don't, and don't care to. I stopped reviewing albums back in the early '80s because it dawned on me I no longer cared what was new or the latest. I'm more interested in what I'm doing than in what others are doing, though this doesn't mean I have no interest in what others are doing---it's not a priority. I am more interested in things of lasting merit. I don't have to hear them when they're new. (I didn't hear Charlie Christian when he was new, or Herb Ellis or Wes Montgomery for that matter.)

    As a rule, young people are the worst judges of musical merit. (And pretty much everything else but especially food and movies.) Keeping up with them is no way for an adult to spend his life. (Unless he's trying to sell them something.)
    I get where you are coming from. My comment was more on people who choose to be willfully ignorant of younger things (which is completely fine) yet want to provide commentary on the younger generation.

    I definitely think a LOT of newer music is very bad (including Bieber) but I wouldn’t generalize based on the age of the listener or generalize an entire generation’s taste. Charlie Christian died when he was very young. I wouldn’t say his taste in music was bad. Lots of seminal records were created by legends when they were in their early 20s.

    As far as general tastes, Instagram influencers are pushing the food culture more than anybody has in the past, for example.

  18. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by HeyNow
    Definitely tarnishes the brand. That's exactly been my point. I explicitly wrote it. The artists I've mentioned, then there is Rick. You've missed my point.
    Tarnished for who? .. Boomers?



    Quote Originally Posted by HeyNow
    Wow, there's a hot take. If people here are inspired more by Rick Beato than Pat Methany, Wes Montgomery, Joe Pass, Charlie Parker, Charlie Christian, Coltrane, I'd love to hear it. I think you're just trolling now
    I love how so many names that I mention are irrelevant to Gibson ...

    .. But you had to go to the two most legendary sax players ever as you ran out of important guitar players

    Maybe throw in Bach, Mozart and Beethoven?

    I'm not trolling btw.


    Apart from Metheny who is 66 all those people have been dead for decades. Sure a lot of established players have been inspired by them, but the number of new players that go to them for guitar inspiration is very small

    You know what once was in high value? Elvis memorabilia .. and here is what happened with that
    Can’t help falling in price: why Elvis memorabilia is plummeting in value | Elvis Presley | The Guardian

    Something is going to happen with all the Hendrix, Page and who ever you mention gear in 10 years when that generation starts kicking the bucket. Thinking that they will last forever is not going to happen. Basing the Gibson brand on those names in 2021 is just insane.

    Not saying Beato is a Hendrix or a Page, but no way I'm buying that they are a legacy that should not be tarnished by his mediocrity .. They're soon enough gone and will be relegated to being historically interesting and only important among musicians into that little niche that they represent.

  19. #93

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    TBH in many ways Rick is more accomplished player than some who have had sig models...

    If they were doing sigs for young trendy guitar playing music stars they’d complain they’d never heard of them or that they can’t play or whatever

    St Vincent had a lot of shit for exactly that. Meh.
    Last edited by christianm77; 01-07-2021 at 04:15 PM.

  20. #94

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    This is why we can’t have nice things.

  21. #95

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    ... I mean .. Biggest jazz guitar legend ever ... had sold has had 45 recordings and sold 20 million records according to his homepage

    ...

    That is a reach of 450,000 people pr record on average.

    "YT persona" reaches much more than that with every single video and he is pushing a LOT of jazz content into the homes of people everywhere ...
    This is was a joke, right?

    My Band camp

  22. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan
    This is was a joke, right?

    My Band camp
    Why?

    Sendt fra min SM-G981B med Tapatalk

  23. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    Tarnished for who? .. Boomers?
    Like I said, 90% people posting on TGP and IG to start. 1700 comments on IG




    I love how so many names that I mention are irrelevant to Gibson ...
    Again - what does Pat Metheny have to do with Gibson? You brought him up for some reason.


    .. But you had to go to the two most legendary sax players ever as you ran out of important guitar players
    "Had to" ? no, you literally wrote jazz player. I could go on. That's not the point. So, Coltrane doesn't inspire as many musicians as Beato today, right? Yes or no?

    Apart from Metheny who is 66 all those people have been dead for decades. Sure a lot of established players have been inspired by them, but the number of new players that go to them for guitar inspiration is very small
    What is that number? Any evidence would be appreciated. Otherwise you're just guessing.

    Something is going to happen with all the Hendrix, Page and who ever you mention gear in 10 years when that generation starts kicking the bucket.
    Maybe, but people said that 10 years ago. Vintage guitar prices are still rising and Gibson is still selling Jimi Hendrix guitars.

  24. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by HeyNow
    Like who? Keifer Sutherland was on the #1 TV show in the world for many years. He was, and still may be, a household name. Some episodes receiving 12m+ views. *He has a huge collection of guitars.*
    And that says, what? So did Chinery.

  25. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound
    And that says, what? So did Chinery.
    I mentioned that because people probably don't know his connection to guitar. Just know him as an actor. He's toured and still puts out music. His sig guitar isn't just some actor endorsing a guitar. I did think it odd when his guitar came out but understand it more than Beato.

    I'm not following the Chinery reference. I know who he is. He's done a lot for the archtop community.

  26. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    Why?

    Sendt fra min SM-G981B med Tapatalk
    I am not sure that explaining it would make the world any better, therefore I will not.

    My Band camp