Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Posts 101 to 150 of 183
  1. #101

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by HeyNow
    Again - what does Pat Metheny have to do with Gibson? You brought him up for some reason.
    He is the most succesfull non-singing jazz guitarist there was since the 60s. I thought he'd be an interesting benchmark to compare Beato against. Can you think of a better player?

    Quote Originally Posted by HeyNow
    "Had to" ? no, you literally wrote jazz player. I could go on. That's not the point. So, Coltrane doesn't inspire as many musicians as Beato today, right? Yes or no?
    We are talking guitar on a guitar forum. I have no idea who or how many listen to Coltrane. I aslo have absolutely no idea why you're mentioning a saxophone player in a discussion about signature guitars on a guitar forum.

    I still guess you ran out of important jazz guitar players and had nowhere else to turn than Coltrane and Parker


    Quote Originally Posted by HeyNow
    What is that number? Any evidence would be appreciated. Otherwise you're just guessing.
    You mean like the hard evidence you are presenting that the tarnishing of Gibson's name with Beato will hurt their sales long term?


    Quote Originally Posted by HeyNow
    Maybe, but people said that 10 years ago. Vintage guitar prices are still rising and Gibson is still selling Jimi Hendrix guitars.
    That is up for debate
    A Look at the Vintage Guitar Market in 2019

    I'm not sure that 150 units of flying Vs and 150 units of SGs actually qualifies as "selling"
    https://guitar.com/news/gear-news/gibson-authentic-hendrix-signature-jimi-flying-v-sg/

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #102

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by HeyNow
    I definitely think a LOT of newer music is very bad (including Bieber) but I wouldn’t generalize based on the age of the listener or generalize an entire generation’s taste.
    Here we differ. I do. And it's not this or that generation. It's not "kids today." It's the nature of life: the young have immature tastes. It doesn't mean they are bad or that none of them know anything (or have great talent.) They just know less. It takes time to learn things in depth, which all older people have had (-though many of them have wasted the opportunity and have tastes no better than they did as teens) but no younger people have had.

    The teens who danced to Duke Ellington and Count Basie were also immature, but this does not mean the music of Ellington and Basie was "kid stuff." It just means they were teens. It's not a fault; it's part of human development, and in the scheme of things it is but a short (though intense) part of life. Teens who read Shakespeare are also immature. People in their 30s and 40s re-reading Shakespeare draw a lot more from the work than they knew how to at 16 or 17.

    I've long been puzzled by the non sequitur that since today's children are tomorrow's leaders, we should seek their counsel today.

  4. #103

    User Info Menu

    I think that’s rubbish. I like a lot more contemporary popular music than when I was 21. Which is not to say I like all of it, but at least I will now consent to listen to music which isn’t Bartok.

    What’s changed? I’m no longer a snob and I listen to music for what it is, not judge it for what it isn’t. So I count that as more sophisticated, but you won’t find me going on about how everything is terrible now. Miserable
    way to live one’s life.

    (EDIT: I suppose that goes with Mark’s point to some extent; but I did really like Bartok, it’s wasn’t a pretence. My ears were attuned more to that music. Over time I’ve widened my interests.)

  5. #104

    User Info Menu

    OTOH there are plenty of people who listen only to music of their generation, with a comfortable aesthetic and judge that to be ‘superior’, whereas in fact what it is always about is nostalgia.

  6. #105

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    I think that’s rubbish. I like a lot more contemporary popular music than when I was 21. Which is not to say I like all of it, but at least I will now consent to listen to music which isn’t Bartok.

    What’s changed? I’m no longer a snob and I listen to music for what it is, not judge it for what it isn’t. So I count that as more sophisticated, but you won’t find me going on about how everything is terrible now. Miserable way to live one’s life.
    Who are you talking to?
    I said nothing snobbish.
    I'm a Stones and AC/DC fan, for f*ck sake.
    I never was a snob. Evidently you once were. Congratulations on maturing and leaving behind the callow teen you once were.


    I never said everything is terrible now.
    (I did say "everything is terrible now" when I was 16, though.)

  7. #106

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    Who are you talking to?
    I said nothing snobbish.
    I'm a Stones and AC/DC fan, for f*ck sake.
    I never was a snob. Evidently you once were. Congratulations on maturing and leaving behind the callow teen you once were.


    I never said everything is terrible now.
    (I did say "everything is terrible now" when I was 16, though.)
    Yeah I don’t think my post really disproves yours. Sorry if I lumped you in with the general moaning old farts. I just get so sick of their endless negativity. That’s not what you are saying.

  8. #107

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Yeah I don’t think my post really disproves yours. Sorry if I lumped you in with the general moaning old farts. I just get so sick of their endless negativity. That’s not what you are saying.
    Right ... Marks is one of the good guys

  9. #108

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    Here we differ. I do. And it's not this or that generation. It's not "kids today." It's the nature of life: the young have immature tastes. It doesn't mean they are bad or that none of them know anything (or have great talent.) They just know less. It takes time to learn things in depth, which all older people have had (-though many of them have wasted the opportunity and have tastes no better than they did as teens) but no younger people have had.
    I think this is a very limited way to think. Yes older people had more time, but time is not all you need to form tastes or learn things in depth.

    There is also talent, intelligence, work ethic, and environment. A 19 year old Miles Davis joined the Charlie Parker Quintet. There are probably hundreds of such *famous* examples of young people being more knowledgeable and mature and talented in music than 99.99999% of older people on the planet

    Kenny Burrell was 25 when he recorded Introducing Kenny Burrell

    Probably millions of such examples that we don't know about.

  10. #109

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    What’s changed? I’m no longer a snob and I listen to music for what it is, not judge it for what it isn’t. So I count that as more sophisticated,
    If you're listening to trite music, you're spending time listening to trite music. I don't see how that's sophisticated.

    Just because you don't judge something for what it isn't, doesn't mean it isn't what it is.

  11. #110

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    OTOH there are plenty of people who listen only to music of their generation, with a comfortable aesthetic and judge that to be ‘superior’, whereas in fact what it is always about is nostalgia.
    I was always looking to hear things that came before my time. It was something of a thing among some of my contemporaries. ("Where did this come from? We have to work our way back...")

    I'm not sure what "the music of [my] generation" means.

    Curiously, I just googled rock stars born in 1958, the year I was born. The list includes Michael Jackson (-who I first heard when he was 5 or 6, meaning I was 5 or 6 too), Madonna (who I first heard in the late '70s and did not care for), Prince (-who I first heard even later though I think he was great), and Ice T (-who I never cared for as a rapper but appreciate as an actor).

    There's no rock singer who means as much to me as Sinatra or Louis Armstrong or Ella Fitzgerald, though Dylan and Leonard Cohen mean a lot to me as not-so-great-singers who wrote some great songs.

    I always loved The Band, who sounded like they were from a previous generation. ;o)

    I'm not sure how old I was when I first heard Charlie Christian---must have been an adult---but he knocked me out and still does. I'd rather listen to Charlie than Hendrix, who was my first guitar hero. (And I still listen to Jimi sometimes. But there's another rabbit hole: Jimi was influenced by Ike Turner and Curtis Mayfield and Cornell Dupree and so many others---had to check THEM out too. Still really did Cornell's playing. Steve Cropper's too.)

  12. #111

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    He is the most succesfull non-singing jazz guitarist there was since the 60s. I thought he'd be an interesting benchmark to compare Beato against. Can you think of a better player?
    Sooo...no connection between Metheny and Gibson. Metheny has sig guitars with other brands btw.

    I have no idea who or how many listen to Coltrane.
    That wasn't the question, but you've proven my point nonetheless. If you don't know how many people listen to Coltrane, how do you know Beato is more influential?

    I aslo have absolutely no idea why you're mentioning a saxophone player in a discussion about signature guitars on a guitar forum.
    You asked what single jazz player is more influential than Beato. I named several including guitar players.

    I still guess you ran out of important jazz guitar players and had nowhere else to turn than Coltrane and Parker
    How many do you want? You asked for a single jazz player. I named more than one guitar player. That's what your gripe is?

    I'm not sure that 150 units of flying Vs and 150 units of SGs actually qualifies as "selling"
    https://guitar.com/news/gear-news/gibson-authentic-hendrix-signature-jimi-flying-v-sg/
    Wow, ok so you want to massage the definition of 'selling'. Alright - not much to discuss here.

  13. #112

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    I'm not sure how old I was when I first heard Charlie Christian---must have been an adult---but he knocked me out and still does.
    and he was young (early-mid 20s) when he made the music that knocks you out. I don't think he had bad taste in music.

  14. #113

    User Info Menu

    You have to give a long lead (leash) to the guitar companies, these days. They are trying mightily to keep the market for guitars and amps alive and (if possible) growing. It's a moribund market for all intents and purposes. Sales of guitars seem to center around flat top acoustics, these days. Singer/songwriters is where the action is--for young people who are getting into playing.

    As compared to back in the early-60s (when I started playing), there are lots more women learning to play--and write songs.

    Gibson, Fender, and others have things pretty well sussed out, IMO. I work with quite a few younger guitarists in my part of Virginia. They have NO interest in 17" x 3-3/8" archtop guitars--carved or laminated. Most of them are intimidated by even thinline ES-series guitars. It's all Strats or Les Pauls, or else flat top acoustics with on-board electronics.

    Meanwhile, I will continue to play 17" and 18" archtops for as long as I'm able. I seriously doubt if American guitar companies will cater to my "old-fashioned" tastes and interests in guitars, but that's okay.

  15. #114

    User Info Menu

    On forums like this music is usually judged by the objective merits like how many chords does it contain and stuff like that .. It is rarely judged by the emotional response it evokes.

    Further more that emotional response is grounded in the zeitgeist at the time of release.

    Judging music from a time, where you never was a part of the zeitgeist is a tricky thing.

    To take an example .. I don't get the Ziggy Stardust record, but could never dream of claiming that it was shite. A lot of early 70s music as a whole is a bit of a mystery to me, be it Velvet Underground or The Wings ... Even Led Zeppelin I find kinda taxing. But that is me and not the music.


    After all music is art that is designed to touch people and if it is popular then it means it touches a lot of people .. just dismissing it all as trite is simply pissing on your fellow human beings.
    Last edited by Lobomov; 01-07-2021 at 06:42 PM.

  16. #115

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by HeyNow
    You asked what single jazz player is more influential than Beato. I named several including guitar players.
    You missed the word "Currently" What single jazz guitarist is more influential than Rick Beato currently!


    Let us try again. It's January the 7th in the year 2021
    Can you name a single jazz guitarist that currently inspires more people to pick up their guitar and play than Rick Beato?


    We are not talking about how many where inspired to play the guitar in 1945 (CC), 1969 (Wes), 1974 (Pass) or 1982 (Metheny). I'm talking about people inspired to pick up and play their guitar in the last couple of years.

  17. #116

    User Info Menu

    Personally, I congratulate Mr. Beato. This is an acknowledgment of his reach in the guitar community in social media. He is among those doing the most to educate people about music in general, and I would guess that most of his audience is guitar players. Guitar is also his main instrument.

    Many guitar manufacturers are making deals with social media influencers and trying to reach out to new markets. This makes a lot of sense. It might not result in direct sales of a Rick Beato signature model, but it creates exposure of the brand using someone that many admire. It does so at very little cost. I think it makes sense in an evolving market.

    Beato is a very capable and knowledgeable guitarist. I have no idea how his being an endorser would cheapen the brand.

  18. #117

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    You missed the word "Currently" What single jazz guitarist is more influential than Rick Beato currently!


    Let us try again. It's January the 7th in the year 2021
    Can you name a single jazz guitarist that currently inspires more people to pick up their guitar and play than Rick Beato?


    We are not talking about how many where inspired to play the guitar in 1945 (CC), 1969 (Wes), 1974 (Pass) or 1982 (Metheny). I'm talking about people inspired to pick up and play their guitar in the last couple of years.
    I thinkyou are trolling, but still ...

    People coming to YT for help and answers,were not inspired by those who have help and answers on offer (for sale).

    Your own example. Someone on YT told you the great wisdom: "If you do not want to hit a string, you must miss it ", only he did it in much more words, decorated with hi res clips and animation. You came to him because you were inspired by Steve Vai if i remember correctly, or maybe Van Halen,.

  19. #118

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    You missed the word "Currently" What single jazz guitarist is more influential than Rick Beato currently!


    Let us try again. It's January the 7th in the year 2021
    Can you name a single jazz guitarist that currently inspires more people to pick up their guitar and play than Rick Beato?


    We are not talking about how many where inspired to play the guitar in 1945 (CC), 1969 (Wes), 1974 (Pass) or 1982 (Metheny). I'm talking about people inspired to pick up and play their guitar in the last couple of years.
    I didn't get the memo that you can't be inspired by those guys after a certain time period. But I don't know why you even brought up jazz guitarists. The Gibson Artist collection, linked to earlier, has no jazz players.

    You were proven wrong on multiple fronts so you just keep pivoting to stuff that has nothing to do with the conversation. You brought up Pat Metheny out of nowhere. He's not a Gibson artist.

  20. #119

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan
    I thinkyou are trolling, but still ...

    People coming to YT for help and answers,were not inspired by those who have help and answers on offer (for sale).

    Your own example. Someone on YT told you the great wisdom: "If you do not want to hit a string, you must miss it ", only he did it in much more words, decorated with hi res clips and animation. You came to him because you were inspired by Steve Vai if i remember correctly, or maybe Van Halen,.

    I'm assuming you're talking about Troy Grady ... Awful presentation, where he every time spends 20 minutes explaining something that could be explained in 2 minutes, but .. !!

    He was the first teacher ever that actually explained how to miss that string .. All prior teachers either just stated that you had to miss it without any instruction .. or claimed that you would somehow magically learn to miss it if you practiced slowly to a metronome.

    Actually I came to him thanks to the Youtube algorithm .. Can't remember if he was suggested in my feed or it was one of those things that just played randomly after I watched another video.


    But man .. Those vids did more for my playing that any educational material before or since .. Two thumbs up to that guy. Love him for it.

    The Vai stuff came much later .. I caught him during his early stuff that is 100% Yngwie, whom I was never really into.


    Also he showed us that there is no string, which was a cool bonus!



    Swipe picking (another 20 minute presentation - Start at 4:00 to skip marketing BS)

  21. #120

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    I'm assuming ...
    I guess my English is too poor to convey the idea.

  22. #121

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by HeyNow

    I'm not following the Chinery reference. I know who he is. He's done a lot for the archtop community.
    Sutherland has a huge collection of guitars. So did Chinery.
    Last edited by Woody Sound; 01-07-2021 at 09:20 PM.

  23. #122

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan
    I guess my English is too poor to convey the idea.

    Your English was fine


    I think that the main issue this heated debate here centers around is that apparently you can only be an influence thru being a player, but not a teacher

    Tho if I mentioned Ted Greene .. Who knows, maybe some of the old grumpy boomers would chime in and praise him? .. After all he is one of us! (Gabba Gabba Hey!)

    Imagine someone like Ted Greene having access to youtube?


    Seems like finding joy in the fact that something inspires people to play music is not really the spirit of many here .. cause you know .. it's all trite if you don't drink at the fountain of The Christian Saint Charlie



    Anyways I digress ... A hopefully affordable TV Yellow Double Cut Gibson LP Special with P90s doesn't sound all that bad at all

  24. #123

    User Info Menu

    In the 90's I had a Howard Roberts Fusion I got from a liquidation cheap. Pretty nice guitar but fugly as hell
    I just wonder how many were actually listening to Howard in the 90's?
    I'll admit I never listened to him even though I had his chord melody book in my stash.

    What I probably would've gone for personally back then was a Zappa Roxy SG signature,
    but Gibson wouldn't do that until 25 years after Frank's death
    I can't recall when Gibson started endorsing non-jazzers. Maybe with the Jimmy Page and Angus models or Ace Frehley? lol
    I suppose Trini wasn't jazz per se
    Last edited by sasquatch; 01-07-2021 at 11:59 PM.

  25. #124

    User Info Menu

    If anything, this move speaks of the importance of YouTube (as the most popular video platform) on music nowadays. Most young people interested in guitar basically get their music education (meaning the music they listen to, not musical studies) from guitar talk shows, not actual artists and bands. Basically it's picture over sound, and TVs version of the 21 century. But I don't think a guitar show can ever inspire somebody to pickup a guitar in the first place.

    It also speaks of the importance of drama on the internet , which is a thing marketed heavily on Beatos channel, and on the channels of his usual co-hosts. Which is a reason I've never really watched them, despite the generally good quality of the content..

    This style of guitar is great, so it will probably be a great guitar!

  26. #125

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov


    I think that the main issue this heated debate here centers around is that apparently you can only be an influence thru being a player, but not a teacher
    We were not talking "influence", we were talking "inspiration (to start playing guitar)". Likes of two mentioned YT personalities are not inspiration. You already play (and have guitar) before you come to them.
    They can influence you in a way that you do not give up, think some goals are achievable and so on.

    From little I watched, guitar brand (type, model ) is not really significant for what they have to sell.

    My Band camp

  27. #126

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound
    Sutherland has a huge collection of guitars. So did Chinery.
    ok...

  28. #127

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan
    We were not talking "influence", we were talking "inspiration (to start playing guitar)". Likes of two mentioned YT personalities are not inspiration. You already play (and have guitar) before you come to them.
    They can influence you in a way that you do not give up, think some goals are achievable and so on.

    From little I watched, guitar brand (type, model ) is not really significant for what they have to sell.

    My Band camp
    Influence .. inspiration .. neither you or me are native english speakers

    Beato has made me reach out for my guitar often enough. So what if it isn't thru his own original content?


    If he for example hadn't made that video on Sting then that day I wouldnt have played guitar at all ... etc. .. That is something


  29. #128

    User Info Menu

    you guys are so out of touch.

    let me present a real youtube influencer. 4.3 million subscribers, his most popular guitar video has 18 million views. he does not teach, he does not explain, he has nothing to sell except a t-shirt.
    and yet he has interested more young people in guitar playing than anyone else on youtube. *every* student i have between 13 and 23 knows who he is. and he plays circles around beato too.




  30. #129

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    Influence .. inspiration .. neither you or me are native english speakers

    Beato has made me reach out for my guitar often enough. So what if it isn't thru his own original content?


    If he for example hadn't made that video on Sting then that day I wouldnt have played guitar at all ... etc. .. That is something...
    I never mentioned content in that sense. It was not and it is not subject of our discusdion.
    Nevertheless, you confirmed my point. You already had a guitar, you were a player long before you've ever heard about him.

    My Band camp

  31. #130

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by djg
    you guys are so out of touch.

    let me present a real youtube influencer. 4.3 million subscribers, his most popular guitar video has 18 million views...
    Hey djg,
    you are probably not aware of coincidence, but this is the 2nd time in couple of weeks that you share about the same players I shared, only I did it some time before you. Players that were never before mentioned on this forum. First that Italian girl, now this kid.
    I am glad it happened. It assures me in my opinions. Further, people tend to ignore my contributions here, hopefully they will be willing to take it in consideration coming from You. I think it would be to their benefit.





    My Band camp

  32. #131

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan
    I never mentioned content in that sense. It was not and it is not subject of our discusdion.
    Nevertheless, you confirmed my point. You already had a guitar, you were a player long before you've ever heard about him.

    My Band camp

    You're trying to make my point something it isn't. I don't care what started people down the road of guitar. I care that they play it.

    He keeps people interested in guitar .. He keeps them going .. That is an achievement ...

    What got me started is my dad had a guitar lying around and knew the chords to House of the rising sun. So with your logic nothing since matters since that is what got me into guitar??


    Anyways ... Here is my Beato from back in the day:
    Last edited by Lobomov; 01-08-2021 at 06:12 AM.

  33. #132

    User Info Menu

    In the early days of Gibson, the company would sell its instruments through mandolin teachers. People would go to the teachers because playing the mandolin was the thing in the first years of the twentieth century, much more popular than the guitar. The teachers would recommend Gibson instruments, and take a percentage of sales.

    Rick Beato is the modern mandolin teacher. He has many students, who fervently want to learn and who are probably afflicted with GAS; I am assuming his viewers are mostly men who have returned to guitar in middle-age and have a desire to play well on high-quality instruments. By giving him a signature guitar, one identical to the guitar he has been playing on his programmes, Gibson can be confident that many of these students will want to buy one. The double-cutaway will not be too difficult to make: it is just a variant of the Les Paul shape with space cut away rather than added. It will also fit into a standard Les Paul case, thus avoiding further expense.

    A lot of potential buyers will see his guitar, every time they tune in for another analysis of a song from their adolescence. Whether or not he deserves the singular honour is of no importance.

    Just by chance you crossed the diamond with the pearl
    You turned it on the world
    That's when you turned the world around
    Did you feel like Jesus?
    Did you realize
    That you were a champion in their eyes?

  34. #133

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by HeyNow
    If you're listening to trite music, you're spending time listening to trite music. I don't see how that's sophisticated.

    Just because you don't judge something for what it isn't, doesn't mean it isn't what it is.
    I would rather not think of myself as a sophisticated listener. But I hear more in all music at the age of 21.

    To take a ‘high culture’ example - There are plenty of people out there who think Beethoven is the greatest without being able to appreciate how strange some of music is; what made the 9th Symphony avant garde at the time (it’s still a wonderfully odd piece of music; if you understand what you are listening to.) I would argue that simply amounts to a stylistic preference; not based on any deeper listening. And that’s fine; I resent people banging on about it as if there’s a scientific formula for what makes good music.

    You know, I used to think Clapton was a boring guitar player. I used to think Rachmaninov was a bad composer. And I used to hate hip hop and chart pop. I used to bore my friends with my musical snobbishness. I thought I was enlightened and in fact I was profoundly ignorant.

    People have to follow their own paths. What I will say from my own experience is looking for things to find interesting is more fun and better for my music than looking for things to dislike; and I would say that most of the good musicians I know listen to music this way (not all, some have a very high level of interest in just one area.) which doesn’t mean they like everything; but they are much more eclectic in their tastes.

    Anyway, I’m not a Beato fan but I have to say the guy can be open minded

  35. #134

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick
    In the early days of Gibson, the company would sell its instruments through mandolin teachers. People would go to the teachers because playing the mandolin was the thing in the first years of the twentieth century, much more popular than the guitar. The teachers would recommend Gibson instruments, and take a percentage of sales.

    Rick Beato is the modern mandolin teacher. He has many students, who fervently want to learn and who are probably afflicted with GAS; I am assuming his viewers are mostly men who have returned to guitar in middle-age and have a desire to play well on high-quality instruments. By giving him a signature guitar, one identical to the guitar he has been playing on his programmes, Gibson can be confident that many of these students will want to buy one. The double-cutaway will not be too difficult to make: it is just a variant of the Les Paul shape with space cut away rather than added. It will also fit into a standard Les Paul case, thus avoiding further expense.

    A lot of potential buyers will see his guitar, every time they tune in for another analysis of a song from their adolescence. Whether or not he deserves the singular honour is of no importance.

    Just by chance you crossed the diamond with the pearl
    You turned it on the world
    That's when you turned the world around
    Did you feel like Jesus?
    Did you realize
    That you were a champion in their eyes?
    I think there are a large contingent of young Beato fans who see him as music dad. Dads are a big thing in the internet.

  36. #135

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    You're trying to make my point something it isn't. I don't care what started people down the road of guitar. I care that they play it.

    He keeps people interested in guitar .. He keeps them going .. That is an achievement ...

    What got me started is my dad had a guitar lying around and knew the chords to House of the rising sun. So with your logic nothing since matters since that is what got me into guitar?
    Point is ...,
    Where I joined and what I commented on, you claimed that, in context of buying a guitar, this YT person inspires more people to start playing (and buy guitar) than Wes, ... Metheny ...
    I say, that can not be true, because all people that come to that YT channel were already inspired by someone else, someone like Wes, ...., Metheny ... They are there to hear and learn about people they were inspired by. This YT person is exploiting inspiration that came from other players.
    Also, all his visitors already have at least one guitar. IMO, that lessens potential for sale of signature guitar. The signature it self is not something that would drive people to buy it, because signatory is not the one who inspired them to play.
    Yes, if they give it away for cheap, it will sell, but it will be independent of YT person signature.
    Given impression I have about him, he probably has a deal with some charity organization who will buy whole bulk, only to give them away.

  37. #136

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan
    Point is ...,
    Where I joined and what I commented on, you claimed that, in context of buying a guitar, this YT person inspires more people to start playing (and buy guitar) than Wes, ... Metheny ...
    I say, that can not be true, because all people that come to that YT channel were already inspired by someone else, someone like Wes, ...., Metheny ... They are there to hear and learn about people they were inspired by. This YT person is exploiting inspiration that came from other players.
    Also, all his visitors already have at least one guitar. IMO, that lessens potential for sale of signature guitar. The signature it self is not something that would drive people to buy it, because signatory is not the one who inspired them to play.
    Yes, if they give it away for cheap, it will sell, but it will be independent of YT person signature.
    Given impression I have about him, he probably has a deal with some charity organization who will buy whole bulk, only to give them away.
    No one comes to guitar playing these days inspired by Wes or Metheny. Let's just agree on that to start of with.

    People come to youtube for inspiration after learning whatever the modern day equivalent of House of the rising sun is.

    What I'm saying is that Beato makes them learn more songs by feeding them new inputs and sometimes that will them to Wes or Metheny .. and not only guitar, but also other jazz legends

    I say that this is extremely cool. Who else with millions of followers makes vidoes like this?




    But let us not kid ourselves .. Wes, Pass and Metheny are no longer common knowledge or shining beacons of inspiration to new guitar players. Jazz and especially on guitar is not mainstream .. yet when someone in the main stream keeps pushing our little niche to millions of viewers ... Some people on this forum react by frowning their brows .. Saying that he shouldn't be praised for this, cause after all it's all about the playing and he ain't no Joe Pass. Simply mind boggling to me???


    But as I said .. I think what he does is cool, but if you find him without merit, superfluous and/or irrelevant then that is your opinion and I'm fine with it.

  38. #137

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    No one comes to guitar playing these days inspired by Wes or Metheny. Let's just agree on that to start of with.

    People come to youtube for inspiration after learning whatever the modern day equivalent of House of the rising sun is.
    Yes we agree on that. IMO, Nobody ever came to guitar playing by Metheny. Wes, I do not know, maybe he could have been the first step for some, back in the day when market offerings were smaller and less diverse.

    Also, we should agree and end with, nobody ever came to play guitar by this particular YouTuber.

  39. #138

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan
    Also, we should agree and end with, nobody ever came to play guitar by this particular YouTuber.
    Sure .. and if we are passing out statements for confirmation then here are my statement

    He is helping players to keep their interest in continuing playing
    He is helping players to discover jazz and other niche styles


    Not all players off course but some .. enough to make a difference.


    Btw .. This discussion for me is more of a principled one .. I'm not particularly a huge fan of Beato, tho I follow him and will check a out vid here and there, if it seems interesting

  40. #139

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    I would rather not think of myself as a sophisticated listener. But I hear more in all music at the age of 21.

    To take a ‘high culture’ example - There are plenty of people out there who think Beethoven is the greatest without being able to appreciate how strange some of music is; what made the 9th Symphony avant garde at the time (it’s still a wonderfully odd piece of music; if you understand what you are listening to.) I would argue that simply amounts to a stylistic preference; not based on any deeper listening. And that’s fine; I resent people banging on about it as if there’s a scientific formula for what makes good music.

    You know, I used to think Clapton was a boring guitar player. I used to think Rachmaninov was a bad composer. And I used to hate hip hop and chart pop. I used to bore my friends with my musical snobbishness. I thought I was enlightened and in fact I was profoundly ignorant.

    People have to follow their own paths. What I will say from my own experience is looking for things to find interesting is more fun and better for my music than looking for things to dislike; and I would say that most of the good musicians I know listen to music this way (not all, some have a very high level of interest in just one area.) which doesn’t mean they like everything; but they are much more eclectic in their tastes.

    Anyway, I’m not a Beato fan but I have to say the guy can be open minded
    This IMHO highlights the fundamental shift in how music (records) is made. Time was, players filed into a room with microphones and played scores they had learned or were reading from a stand. The resultant vibrations were partially captured by the primitive equipment of the day and pressed into records to be sold to the buying public at x$ of which the musicians would typically get diddly-squat. FF to century 21 and you have the manipulation of sounds cut-and-pasted into a temporal form that tends to stimulate the listener into dance -like movements or otherwise twitch and bob. These collections of vibrations are then streamed at great cost to the algorithmicaly - selected public at great cost. The few musicians involved, with notable (and bankable) exceptions, get diddly squat. The more things change....

  41. #140

    User Info Menu

    disclaimer: If you like Rick Beato, you don't have to read my post and my criticism isn't directed at you.

    I absolutely abhor Beato. If I wanted completely unsubstantiated opinions from hot-headed, megalomaniacal blues-rock dads with massive egos and a superiority complex, I would just go down to the blues club and ask the patrons there "who or what killed rock?".
    I don't know for what he is owed his enormous celebrity. The only distinction between he and the hordes of boring old white guys with the same regurgitations about the imaginary prelapsarian "Time Before Pro Tools", is that this failed musicologist is given a platform and is treated as academically superior to many equally or more qualified individuals.

    What has he contributed to guitar playing? He is not a noted musical creator nor a style-defining guitarist. He is entirely derivative and his playing is just diatonic noodling drowned out by idiotic amounts of reverb and delay, which I will say is actually pretty effective at disguising his touch and time.

    Below is an excerpt from a stream:


    Now, you might want to excuse familiar frustration, but keep in mind that this is from a live stream to his two million subscribers.
    Can you excuse a man with an enormous following; nearly half of the population in my country, verbally flaggelating his prepubescent child by name, whose face has been shown on the channel multiple times, to his two million fans?

    Apropos behaviour, I captured a few snapshots of how he typically reacts to any semblance of mild criticism or even questions from fans:
    rick "cool head rick" beato book - Album on Imgur


    There is no reason to take this grown child seriously when there are so many other voices out there. I'm guessing some of his popularity is owed to his status quo approach to dad rock and contemporary music, and their supposed dichotomy...
    If you're wondering why people say "Ok, boomer", take a good look at Rick.

    I would call him much worse if I didn't know how important the veneer of civility is to some.


    To be clear, I don't think you have to have impeccable technique to warrant a signature guitar - but I do think you need to have a signature.
    I don't think it's wrong to be frustrated with your child, I think it is wrong to drag your named and ID'd child to millions of followers online.
    I don't think you need to have particular academic qualifications to have opinions on music, but I don't think you deserve to be given credibilty and platforms when there are thousands of equally/more qualified people who also aren't a-holes.
    It is not an issue of jealousy; I will happily recommend Aimee Nolte, Adam Neely, the 80/20 drummer, ZackGrooves, and many many others, as fantastic resources on YouTube.
    I am not trying to attack boomers, I am trying to attack a mindset.

    Edit: according to the post below mine, Beato has actual academic qualifications. Colour me surprised! I've amended some of my post to reflect this.
    Last edited by mr quick; 01-10-2021 at 05:38 PM.

  42. #141

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch
    I just wonder how many were actually listening to Howard in the 90's?
    I don't know about the 1990s, but in the 1960s and 70s, when I was a kid and in high school, everybody who watched TV or turn on the radio was listening to Howard Roberts. He one of the most heavily recorded guitarists of all time, but among the general public hardly anybody knew who he was. Ditto Tommy Tedesco, Carol Kaye, etc.

    As for Beato, I've watched a half dozen or so videos by him. Some I liked, some didn't interest me. C'est la vie. But the guy is obviously very smart, and seems to have earned his stripes. The odds are good he knows as much or more about jazz than most of us here on the forum.

    Rick Beato | Discography | Discogs

    Rick Beato... is certified to teach grades K-12 and holds a bachelor’s in music from Ithaca College and a master’s in jazz studies from the New England Conservatory of Music. He is presently a member of the Board of Directors at The GLOBE Academy dual-language immersion charter school in Atlanta, GA.

  43. #142

    User Info Menu

    It's impossible to play a few guitar videos on YouTube and NOT have Rick Beato show up in your recommendations. I watched a video or two and, though he's right in my demographic - white guitar guy in his fifties with a couple of music degrees and no substantial recorded musical contributions - he is not my cup of tea. I don't like this type of smug blowhard Cliff Clavin "explainer" in real life, so I'm not going to waste time watching him when there might be just one more video out there with Ed Bickert modestly creating real beauty. That being said, I don't find it hard to avoid Beato, so live and let live.

    A Gibson "Rick Beato" signature model? Like Harley Davidson, a lifestyle/identity brand that happens to sell motorcycles, Gibson is (now) a lifestyle brand that happens to sell guitars. So whatever, Beato gets lots of views and they may sell a lot of those double cuts to bedroom Boomer-rockers re-capturing the youthful rock-and-roll lifestyle they never had. Personally, I would be a bit embarrassed to show up at an actual gig with a Gibson with "Rick Beato" inscribed on it, but not all guitars are marketed at professionals.

    That being said, I own three signature guitars - a Fender Robert Cray Stratocaster, a Reverend Pete Anderson hollow-body electric, and a Reverend Pete Anderson Eastsider T (a Tele-style guitar). I don't feel the slightest bit ashamed to bring any of those names on the bandstand. Plus each model features enhancements and innovations to the instrument type that I find significant and useful. It's hard to imagine what special modifications Rick Beato's Gibson would have that would make it a substantial improvement over a standard double cut by Gibson or any number of guitar companies.

    But, live and let live, God bless him.

  44. #143

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by BickertRules
    I don't find it hard to avoid Beato, so live and let live.
    I wonder if this might be a big reason why I am so averse. I find it impossible to avoid him, no matter how hard I try. I moved away after finishing my degree so I suppose the "campus" argument isn't as pertinent anymore, but I did find that he was constantly brought up, unless someone was just trying to plagiarize his content, hoping no one would notice.
    Now though, I constantly get customers in who talk about Rick Beato. I saw a Rick Beato video and he said x, so I'm gonna do x, etc.

    Additionally, I can't really let live when a person with an enormous following says some outright idiotic shit. Kemper's for amateurs? What a ridiculous claim to make. For his anecdote about professional drummers "hating" quantization and Kempers being an amateur's tool, I have an anecdote about the inverse being true; young, pragmatic musicians who aren't caught up in some ridiculous quasi-religious mythos about tubes containing magic that cause an irreplicable sound characteristic, or quantizing being categorically unmusical...
    His views on teaching are absolutely abysmal, as can be seen in these replies:




    I can ignore dogma like those when they are coming from "little" voices, but not from big dogs like Rick whose opinion carries weight simply by virtue of his popularity.
    This guy, unfortunately, is influential. He is wielding this power recklessly.

  45. #144

    User Info Menu

    Signature guitar aside, I am truly glad to be introduced to Rick Beato as an artist. I was not aware of him before now, but can't wait to dig into some of his videos.

  46. #145

    User Info Menu

    Haha - “Kemper’s for amateurs? Like these guys?

    Kemper Artists Gallery

    and all these?

    Kemper Hall of Fame

    hehe...


    Quote Originally Posted by mr quick
    I wonder if this might be a big reason why I am so averse. I find it impossible to avoid him, no matter how hard I try. I moved away after finishing my degree so I suppose the "campus" argument isn't as pertinent anymore, but I did find that he was constantly brought up, unless someone was just trying to plagiarize his content, hoping no one would notice.
    Now though, I constantly get customers in who talk about Rick Beato. I saw a Rick Beato video and he said x, so I'm gonna do x, etc.

    Additionally, I can't really let live when a person with an enormous following says some outright idiotic shit. Kemper's for amateurs? What a ridiculous claim to make. For his anecdote about professional drummers "hating" quantization and Kempers being an amateur's tool, I have an anecdote about the inverse being true; young, pragmatic musicians who aren't caught up in some ridiculous quasi-religious mythos about tubes containing magic that cause an irreplicable sound characteristic, or quantizing being categorically unmusical...
    His views on teaching are absolutely abysmal, as can be seen in these replies:




    I can ignore dogma like those when they are coming from "little" voices, but not from big dogs like Rick whose opinion carries weight simply by virtue of his popularity.
    This guy, unfortunately, is influential. He is wielding this power recklessly.

  47. #146

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by mr quick
    I wonder if this might be a big reason why I am so averse. I find it impossible to avoid him, no matter how hard I try.
    Now you know how I feel about The Beatles.

  48. #147

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by mr quick
    Now, you might want to excuse familiar frustration, but keep in mind that this is from a live stream to his two million subscribers.
    Can you excuse a man with an enormous following; nearly half of the population in my country, verbally flaggelating his prepubescent child by name, whose face has been shown on the channel multiple times, to his two million fans?
    It seems to be a private conversation with someone called Michael, which has been broadcast to the hordes inadvertently. Or is it reality television? It has nothing to do with playing guitar.

    The Dylan Beato signature oboe will available soon.

  49. #148

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick
    It seems to be a private conversation with someone called Michael, which has been broadcast to the hordes inadvertently. Or is it reality television? It has nothing to do with playing guitar.

    The Dylan Beato signature oboe will available soon.
    No, it is from a public livestream which can be seen in his "Rick Beato Late Night 1-3-18" video/stream starting at 9:17
    Yes, it has nothing to do with playing the guitar, but a lot to do with how someone who is respected and looked up to by many impressionable people should act. It is completely irresponsible. I cannot even imagine how I would feel as a child if I found that my dad, after already punishing me for not wanting to play the Oboe, had dragged me like that online.
    I am blessed to have a father whom I look up to and who got me into playing guitar simply by being my hero.
    We should expect more of influencers.
    I'll stop going on about it though, seeing as how I'm not exactly in consensus.

  50. #149

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by mr quick
    No, it is from a public livestream which can be seen in his "Rick Beato Late Night 1-3-18" video/stream ....
    I'll stop going on about it though, seeing as how I'm not exactly in consensus.
    So the boy’s friends can watch it. I have not spent much time watching his videos, for reasons similar to yours.

  51. #150

    User Info Menu

    Nvm .. Not a musician
    Last edited by Lobomov; 01-11-2021 at 10:54 AM.