Picks - Pointy end or not?

[arielcee]

I have been liking the Dunlop "Jim.Root" pick. It's like a 1.38mm nylon version of the Tiii picks, or a 351 sized Jazz III XL. Pretty damn quick. I've been able to get some Grant Green tones on my Tele and 335 copies.

[Litterick]

I am reminded of Lilliput in Gulliver’s Travels:

It is allowed on all hands, that the primitive way of breaking eggs, before we eat them, was upon the larger end; but his present majesty's grandfather, while he was a boy, going to eat an egg, and breaking it according to the ancient practice, happened to cut one of his fingers. Whereupon the emperor his father published an edict, commanding all his subjects, upon great penalties, to break the smaller end of their eggs. The people so highly resented this law, that our histories tell us, there have been six rebellions raised on that account; wherein one emperor lost his life, and another his crown. These civil commotions were constantly fomented by the monarchs of Blefuscu; and when they were quelled, the exiles always fled for refuge to that empire. It is computed that eleven thousand persons have at several times suffered death, rather than submit to break their eggs at the smaller end. Many hundred large volumes have been published upon this controversy: but the books of the Big–endians have been long forbidden, and the whole party rendered incapable by law of holding employments.

[ccroft]

I have been liking the Dunlop "Jim.Root" pick. It's like a 1.38mm nylon version of the Tiii picks, or a 351 sized Jazz III XL. Pretty damn quick. I've been able to get some Grant Green tones on my Tele and 335 copies.

Nice! So what's the business end of that thing for you?

[christianm77]

I just tried turning my Fender 358 around the wrong way. Have to say I don't see the attraction. I wonder if the round-enders strike the strings with the same pick angle I do. Seemed to me it made more difference in tone if picking more or less parallel to the strings.

I'm a pointy end guy but my pick is something like a 30° to 45° angle to the strings. Sort of a reverse Metheny thing. In 3D I think that makes the pointy end rounder... or something.

Have to say I was somewhat surprised to find that playing with the round end wasn't as weird as I thought it'd be. Might even do it again some day.

Ooh these ‘round-enders’

[arielcee]

Nice! So what's the business end of that thing for you?

I use the pointy end. It's definitely bright.

[christianm77]

I honestly feel like I’m being gaslit lol. I’ve tried out a lot of ways of playing the guitar and like to feel I have a decent handle on most ways of doing things, even if I haven’t mastered them.

But this round end thing; look I can play that way (just about) but all I get is a nasty scrape on the front end of the note and a lack of definition on the pick attack.

What am I doing wrong????

I feel like I’m losing what’s left of my sanity reading this thread! I must know!!!!!!

[Lobomov]

Nvm

[princeplanet]

Attachment 78233Attachment 78234Attachment 78235

If you compare the picks (I am not sure that I got the right ProPlec pick) you can see how the black pick seems to have more of a shoulder, and that shoulder is low enough to be able to use it as a pick, in my opinion. So nice to play without getting that darn pointed tip caught, and getting slowed down.

I will be in Princeplanet's debt forever.

Haha- glad to hear we've converted a couple of you guys (welcome to the dark side!)... However, I think my reason for going round might be a bit different to those that seem to enjoy some new found "smoothness". That's what I don't like about it! So, what I do is I take a coarse file to the round ends to rough them up so I can get more scrape! Surely, that puts me in some kinda minority renegade class ? (or just the nut house ....)

[BickertRules]

I am reminded of Lilliput in Gulliver’s Travels:

It is allowed on all hands, that the primitive way of breaking eggs, before we eat them, was upon the larger end; but his present majesty's grandfather, while he was a boy, going to eat an egg, and breaking it according to the ancient practice, happened to cut one of his fingers. Whereupon the emperor his father published an edict, commanding all his subjects, upon great penalties, to break the smaller end of their eggs. The people so highly resented this law, that our histories tell us, there have been six rebellions raised on that account; wherein one emperor lost his life, and another his crown. These civil commotions were constantly fomented by the monarchs of Blefuscu; and when they were quelled, the exiles always fled for refuge to that empire. It is computed that eleven thousand persons have at several times suffered death, rather than submit to break their eggs at the smaller end. Many hundred large volumes have been published upon this controversy: but the books of the Big–endians have been long forbidden, and the whole party rendered incapable by law of holding employments.

Oh, I am definitely a Big-Endian, or rather, a Round-Endian when it comes to picks, but I foment no rebellion, pick and let pick, I say.

[BickertRules]

It’s so strange - I don’t understand how anyone can play with the rounded end:-)

I feel the same now about the pointy end! Everyone’s hands are different and the pick angle and the shape of the movement approaching, striking and releasing the string are very personal to each player. As long as you get your sound, pick and let pick!

I mostly use the “shoulders” of these now, in Extra Heavy:



For a long period I used these Wegen mandolin picks, White 1mm for electric, Black 2mm for acoustic archtop (the colors do sound different). They are nice sounding and you don’t have to worry about which point is sticking out - they are all the same!



I still use the thick black ones for the Loar “L-5” I have sitting in the living room, but everything else (especially my Tele strung 12-48) pretty much gets the Pyramid Extra Heavy these days.

[AlsoRan]

Haha- glad to hear we've converted a couple of you guys (welcome to the dark side!)... However, I think my reason for going round might be a bit different to those that seem to enjoy some new found "smoothness". That's what I don't like about it! So, what I do is I take a coarse file to the round ends to rough them up so I can get more scrape! Surely, that puts me in some kinda minority renegade class ? (or just the nut house ....)

You are obviously a "think-out-of-the-box" type person. I never thought of modifying the tip myself with files or some other type of device.

I am going to experiment with that to see of I can get that rounded point that I am after.

Now, just where is my sandpaper that I was thinking about throwing away a while back...?

[BickertRules]

Add Gabor Szabo to the “Round-Enders” - and to the pick mod’ers.

From Jimmy Stewart, who played with Szabo many years:

Jimmy Stewart On The Picks Of Gabor Szabo
“There was something a little unusual about the technique Gabor used for his picks and something different about the way he used the pick. He liked to use a medium-gauge Gibson, what was then called the Star Pick. I'm not sure whether it was developed with input from Les Paul, but it was called the Star Pick and I don't see those out on the market now.

Gabor played with the round side of the pick, instead of the point. On the bandstand, he would have probably five, six to maybe ten picks sitting on top of his amplifier. Periodically, through the performance, he would change picks, so it had just the right feel. He always carried these picks in a hard-shell pick case.

This material the Gibson Star Pick was made of was celluloid. I used the same pick myself. Prior to playing with Gabor, I had found that I could take that point off of the pick by rubbing it on a carpet and it would heat up the material and would round off the edges. I showed this technique to Gabor to reshape his picks and he started to use it. It was a lot of fun to see the two of us looking for a rug in the hotel room or the dressing room so we could reshape out pick!

For some reason, that type of pick -- the celluloid medium Gibson Star Pick -- created a rich tone. That's one of the reasons why we used it. Many players use many different styles of picks. But Gabor really liked that pick and he really felt at a disadvantage having to play any other gauge of pick other than the medium. That just seemed to weld into that power package in his right hand.

He was able to change the angles of the pick to create the beautiful sounds that he created. I think that's another reason why that pick worked for him. There were times he would angle the pick so there would be more of the pick in between the string and the adjacent string. Other times, he would make it perpendicular to the string. Of course, with his other techniques that he used -- the tremolo and some oscillated picking and some wrist picking -- created all those feels. The result was a great artist with a great individual sound.”

Jimmy Stewart on Gabor Szabo’s Picks

[christianm77]

Well I had a go with my standard pick with is a Jim Dunlop 1.5mm tortex jazz III but big whatever they are calling that.

OK so, the sound has a more pronounced upper mid formant which I don’t really like but I could imagine being useful in a band mix. The transients and scraping aren’t a problem so much.

one thing is when I play fast I feel I’m losing precision. I’m uncertain as to whether this is a psychological thing or whether I am actually losing definition and precision.

[christianm77]

I can probably squeeze a video out of
this

[citizenk74]

You are obviously a "think-out-of-the-box" type person. I never thought of modifying the tip myself with files or some other type of device.

I am going to experiment with that to see of I can get that rounded point that I am after.

Now, just where is my sandpaper that I was thinking about throwing away a while back...?

I've had good luck with drugstore nail files, scraps of leather, bits of wood, hunks of shell, and small, semi-polished rocks. I reccommend rotating strokes for shaping and lengthwise stroke for polishing. Leather guitar strap backs make wonderful strops.

[Lobomov]

one thing is when I play fast I feel I’m losing precision. I’m uncertain as to whether this is a psychological thing or whether I am actually losing definition and precision.

Just pray at the alter and tomorrow that feeling will be gone.


(The usual stuff with whenever there is a microscopic change in the movements needed .. just need a day or two of playing followed by a day of doing something else?)

[BickertRules]

Still impressed that the ratio of Pointers to Rounders is around 3:2

[christianm77]

Just pray at the alter and tomorrow that feeling will be gone.


(The usual stuff with whenever there is a microscopic change in the movements needed .. just need a day or two of playing followed by a day of doing something else?)

Well I don’t really like the way it sounds so probably won’t bother

[arielcee]

I honestly feel like I’m being gaslit lol. I’ve tried out a lot of ways of playing the guitar and like to feel I have a decent handle on most ways of doing things, even if I haven’t mastered them.

But this round end thing; look I can play that way (just about) but all I get is a nasty scrape on the front end of the note and a lack of definition on the pick attack.

What am I doing wrong????

I feel like I’m losing what’s left of my sanity reading this thread! I must know!!!!!!

Your not alone. Lol.

[princeplanet]

I honestly feel like I’m being gaslit lol. I’ve tried out a lot of ways of playing the guitar and like to feel I have a decent handle on most ways of doing things, even if I haven’t mastered them.

But this round end thing; look I can play that way (just about) but all I get is a nasty scrape on the front end of the note and a lack of definition on the pick attack.

What am I doing wrong????

I feel like I’m losing what’s left of my sanity reading this thread! I must know!!!!!!

Well, I feel I've been gaslit most of my playing life into accepting that the pointy end is the only way to go. But when I realised that my favourite strikers were not conventional pickers, I began to wonder.... Django used a button, Wes his thumb, GB goes the "slice"... it's like they all found a way out of the box... Hmmm, what do we know about Charlie Christian's strike? They say all downstrokes, but I just can't believe that! What kinda picks did they even have back then?

[princeplanet]

Still impressed that the ratio of Pointers to Rounders is around 3:2

Make that shocked! Who'd a thunk? Have we been embarrassed to admit our predilection for the pick's shoulder all this time?
Or do we like to keep it our little secret?

[CharlesR]

Fender 351 heavy round side, sometimes Dunlop 500 2mm on the tip.

[christianm77]

I cannot condone your lifestyle choices, but I must tolerate them.

[princeplanet]

I cannot condone your lifestyle choices, but I must tolerate them.

... as we must your own!

[christianm77]

... as we must your own!

Moral relativism