The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Last I knew, Gibson was producing only one jazz archtop style guitar...the Chuck Berry Model. Other than that and some small one man shops, it appears Heritage is the only American company producing traditional jazz archtops. Is that correct? American guitar builder, Collings Guitars, recently ceased production of their jazz archtop style guitars. I find this so sad. All the new, beautiful looking and sounding jazz archtops made by Gibson are now a memory.

    I had a worn out Gibson guitar catalog in the early '60s and I used to drool at the thought of someday owning an L5CES, Tal Farlow, Johnny Smith, or Super 400 guitar. Yes, there are plenty used American made Gibson, Guild, Gretsch, and Epiphone jazz archtops available for purchase. But prices keep creeping up. And you can't always trust a seller's judgement of the condition of their guitars for sale. So there is some risk involved when purchasing used guitars. At least if you purchase a new American made Heritage you won't have to be concerned about the condition of it. And the prices of new Heritage jazz archtop guitars seems to be in the sweet spot of $3000 to $5000 along with many of the used American made jazz archtops.

    I'll be in the market for a new/used American made jazz archtop next Spring. So I'm beginning my search early. I have a wonderful looking and sounding Eastman 580CE to get me by until then. So you can see I don't have anything against jazz archtops from the Pacific rim. However, I'll never be satisfied until I, once again, own a top quality, top sounding, American made jazz archtop guitar. I'm somewhat spoiled after having owned a few over the years, including an L5CES. But my budget stops at $5000. So that leaves another L5CES, Super 400, or Johnny Smith out of the picture. For now I'm thinking about a Tal Farlow or a nice ES175, as far as used guitars go.

    The next decision is, do I go with a new Heritage Standard Eagle Classic or one of the used Gibsons I mentioned above? Which way would you go? Perhaps there is a small shop jazz archtop guitar builder that can build me something within my budget constraints? Although, right now, I'm just lukewarm to the idea of having to wait on a custom made guitar. I've had to wait on custom guitars and amps in the past.

    I had a very sour experience ordering an L5CES from the Gibson Custom Shop in the late '90s. I waited almost 2 years on it only to discover some major QC issues the first time I opened the case. However, more recent Gibson Custom Shop examples were exemplary.

    The other issue is my age. I'll be 71 y/o in January and I'm at the age where you start to think about your mortality and how much time you have remaining on this planet. So, I'm not hot on the idea of having to wait for a guitar to be built. I'd like to have some time to enjoy it.

    So, given all the info above, what would you do?
    Last edited by jumpnblues; 10-27-2020 at 10:38 AM.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Gibson's not making archtops at all? No L5's? No 175's?

    Wow. That's really sad. But I guess I get it...catering to jazz musicians hasn't been a strong business move in quite a while.

    I know for a fact that Heritage has streamlined big time in the archtop department...I think just 575's and maybe Eagles, now? Someone who knows more than me will confirm.

  4. #3

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  5. #4

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    Last I knew, Campellone, Buscarino, Andersen, Holst, Duff, and several others are still Americans and are making archtops. I suppose you are talking about ‘factory’-made American archtops?

  6. #5

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    Collings is a full scale company and they make lots of jazz guitars.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabor
    I don't believe any of these Guild guitars are made in the USA. I could be wrong.
    We have many great custom builders so despair not.
    Godin also has archtops and their manufacturing straddles the border.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
    Collings is a full scale company and they make lots of jazz guitars.

    Jim, I'm pretty sure I read where Collings shut down their jazz archtop line...about a year ago. I certainly could be wrong about that.

  9. #8

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    Benedetto

  10. #9
    I'll have to say, the examples of Heritage 575s and Eagle Classics I've seen, read about, and played were top notch guitars. They've made guitars for jazz players like Kenny Burrell. They must know what they're doing.

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by rsclosson
    Benedetto

    Way over my budget.

  12. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by DRS
    I don't believe any of these Guild guitars are made in the USA. I could be wrong.
    We have many great custom builders so despair not.
    Godin also has archtops and their manufacturing straddles the border.

    You're right, they're not. Godin makes darn good instruments. Very underrated, IMHO.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by jumpnblues
    I'll have to say, the examples of Heritage 575s and Eagle Classics I've seen, read about, and played were top notch guitars. They've made guitars for jazz players like Kenny Burrell. They must know what they're doing.
    I've had my 575 about 9 years now, and I definitely don't ever "need" another jazz box. It's a great instrument.

  14. #13
    Anyone here own a Heritage 575 or Standard Eagle Classic? How do you like them?

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmajor9
    Last I knew, Campellone, Buscarino, Andersen, Holst, Duff, and several others are still Americans and are making archtops. I suppose you are talking about ‘factory’-made American archtops?
    Right! The OP needs to back up and alter the title and initial post!

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRS
    I don't believe any of these Guild guitars are made in the USA. I could be wrong.
    We have many great custom builders so despair not.
    Godin also has archtops and their manufacturing straddles the border.
    You are right, the archtops are made out of USA, my bad

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by jumpnblues
    Way over my budget.
    Yeah they are pricey. I do see used ones that are very attainable. (Not for me, but within the same range as Gibson, etc)

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by jumpnblues
    ... I don't have anything against jazz archtops from the Pacific rim. However, I'll never be satisfied until I, once again, own a top quality, top sounding, American made jazz archtop guitar. I'm somewhat spoiled after having owned a few over the years, including an L5CES. But my budget stops at $5000. ...

    The other issue is my age. I'll be 71 y/o in January ... I'm not hot on the idea of having to wait for a guitar to be built. I'd like to have some time to enjoy it.

    So, given all the info above, what would you do?
    I think you have mutually contradictory requirements. These are:
    • "a top quality, top sounding, ... jazz archtop guitar"
    • "[an] American made jazz archtop guitar"
    • "my budget stops at $5000"
    • "I'm not hot on the idea of having to wait for a guitar to be built"


    The old computer programing adage, "Fast, cheap, good: pick two". A top quality &c guitar can be had; since there is a very limited market for top quality archtops and since they're expensive to make, it's very unlikely that some luthier somewhere is making a lot of archtops on spec waiting for a sugar daddy to come along and buy one; and the idea of such a guitar under $5000 is marginally plausible, but mostly is laughable.

    Can you buy a new car in the USA for $5000? No. Can you buy a used car for $5000? Yes, but it won't be much of a car. Why is that? Some new cars were under $5000 as recently as the 1960s. What happened?

    What would I do? In order to be successful in purchasing a guitar, I would adjust my requirements to match instruments that actually are available for purchase. The requirements as set forth cannot realistically all be satisfied. Decide what's most important and make the best compromise you can.

  19. #18

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    You can easily have many Gibson archtops under 5k used.

    I doubt I'd ever buy a "new" expensive guitar. There's so much more bang for the buck in buying a high quality instrument used.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by jumpnblues
    Jim, I'm pretty sure I read where Collings shut down their jazz archtop line...about a year ago. I certainly could be wrong about that.
    They still show several models on their website.

  21. #20

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    >>wonderful looking and sounding Eastman 580CE

    I think you should continue to use this one. While I haven't liked most of the Eastmans I have played, I thought the 580CE was very nice. I remember playing it and thinking it was like a modified/updated Gibson L5CT.

    If you want a Gibson then you will spend more money. You could buy an L5CES with an approval period, and then compare it to what you have.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by jumpnblues
    Way over my budget.
    So what is your budget? We could better help you if we knew.

  23. #22

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    Guild, Gretsch and Epiphone have all become brands that are no longer American made. Small shops like Benedetto and Collings may offer archtops at boutique prices, but the day of the large factory American made archtop has passed. Get over it. Markets decide factory guitar production, not a few old men with nostalgia.

    I am a fan of traditional American archtops (I own 10 at present) and understand the nostalgia. I am also a businessman and understand why the archtop market is where it is at.

    Here are some facts:

    There are some very fine archtops coming out of Asia, particularly Japan, at prices that the American labor market cannot compete with.

    Demand for archtops is small compared to flattops, semi-hollows and solid bodies. No wise corporate businessman would sacrifice profitable production to make these.

    The boutique market is flooded with small builders, some of whom (Campellone?, Holst?, Cushman?) have prices that Gibson cannot compete with.

    There are plenty of used American archtops in circulation and some very reputable dealers that can guarantee those guitars for those who are risk averse.

    Gibson will make you an L-5 or Super 400 at Benedetto prices if you really want a new one. If you cannot afford the price of admission, you do not get to enjoy the ride.

  24. #23

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    There is a beautiful L-5 CES in the For Sale section right now. Asking $6500. OP should jump on that!

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabor
    Korean or Indonesian made.

  26. #25

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    Correct, most guitar companies have stopped producing the type of guitars which are generally unpopular i.e. archtops. Normal business behaviour...and it's not the fault of the companies! It's due to weak demand.

    But there are, as OP noted, many "one man shops" out there still doing this AND also let's not forget about Benedetto which pretty much only makes archtops and makes them all in the US. They've basically taken over that market from Gibson, Guild, etc.

    So things are not dire at all. Just changing business landscape, which is normal.