1974 Gibson Howard Roberts Custom scale length

[Jx30510]

I would like to know the scale length on this particular model
There are conflicting informations on this, seems to be 25.5 but I've also seen 24.75?
Since there have been a few modifications on the HR over the years, I'd like to to have the final facts.
Scale length is a really important aspect to me, I like 24'75 and 25'5 for each of their strengths, so in the end it's not a deal breaker in either way.
I have the opportunity to get one, 2000€, which seems to be a good deal, but it's a few hours from my place.
I've had a few mails with the seller, and I feel he doesn't have the knowledge to give me an answer to this question
Thanks in advance

Maybe another question, is this guitar really different from an Es175, is it worth having, or is it that close that it would be kind of redundant? I 'm after a more acoustic feeling jazz guitar

[wintermoon]

Gibson HR full depth arctops from the 70s are 25.5.
I had one, liked it better than the same vintage 175 I had which is 24.75 of course
Otherwise basically the same guitar save for the oval hole which gives it a different sound of course, more acoustic than a 175 as a result.

Epiphone Howard Roberts from the 60's are 25.5 for the custom and 24.9 for the standard

[Jx30510]

Thanks
So 25'5 then..

[jzucker]

it's 25.5, will be brighter and spankier than a standard 175 due to the scale length, maple neck, ebony board. They are great guitars but somewhat feedback prone.

[Jx30510]

Well, here it is the Custom model
The fretboard is rosewood, and not ebony. It's the Artist version that's got the ebony fretboard, and is 25'5 scale for sure.
So here comes the conflicting informations, and it's like that all over the web
What I've understood is that the Custom version is with rosewood fretboard, and nickel hardware. While the Artist version is with Ebony fretboard and gold hardware
And I see here and there the Custom is 24'75 and the Artist 25'5..
Well the important thing is how good the guitar is, and the rest are just specs
2000€ seems to be a good deal?
I've asked photos of the fretboard to see what shape the frets are in, and may have a road "guitar" trip in a few days..

[jzucker]

ask them to measure the distance between the nut and the low string bridge piece

[Marty Grass]

It's 25.5" in both the Gibson Custom and Artist versions.

The earlier Epiphone versions are more confusing. The Standard was 24.75" while the Custom and Artist were 25.5". Only a couple hundred of these were made. That Standard doesn't have the fancy headstock inlays.

Here's a Standard.

https://www.12fret.com/wp-content/ga...full-front.jpg

Do they feedback more than the 175? I think so. I had an Epiphone Artist from the 1960s with a spruce to. The floating pickup and maybe the sound hole made it hard to gig at rock venues.

[Jx30510]

Thanks very much for the information
So I think we're settled now.

Yes Jzucker, I kind of wanted to ask the guy just to measure the neck, but I felt during our few mails he just wasn't very prone to that sort of thing, wondering at this point if he's even a guitar player
So explaining him what's the nut, bridge, all that, seemed.. out of reach
So I know you guys here are real experts, and it's always a joy to start a little thread on a pointy subject
Thanks!

[JFranck]

From a 76 Swiss catalog

[Marty Grass]

Enjoy!

[deacon Mark]

• Howard Roberts was one of the finest all around guitarist in history. He could read, play any style, and generally take command of a guitar. He had a pretty firm touch and plenty of hand strength. He even said he pretty much blew up a 175 it simply did not hold up well with his playing. His guitars are great and I think pretty much sleepers. The round hole certainly has an effect on the sound but plugged in they pretty much can do many styles of playing.

The thing I don't understand is that not only the HR guitars but all the later ones, his Fusions and the generations of those that changed bit are not guitars anyone seems to ever be looking for. In fact when I see one I forget they even exist, yet they are great guitars to play and gig with. I always like the finger tailpiece regardless if it actually works like intended. They manage all the sounds I would need to get out of a guitar plugged in. So to me it is a mystery. The old question of why the magic of some guitars in the market and not others.

Howard died young really and to my knowledge had a problem with drinking. Not sure how that effected his playing but my guess is it took its toll. In his day he was the guitar player of guitar players. Sort of sad and close to home since my father fantastic guitarist and studio musician, good reader never manage to beat the drinking issue. It certainly keep him from getting very far.

[GTRMan]

I didn't know that they made them as far back as the 60's. I thought the 70's was the launch period. Oh well, live and learn.


Regarding scale length, would you guys say;

"measure from the nut where the string sits in the slot to the center of the 12th fret, then multiply by 2"?

[Jx30510]

Really great video. I literally ate every second of it.
The HR is in fact very different, brighter, more articulate, and the acoustic sound is definitely quite a bit more powerful and punchy.
I asked the seller for pictures of the frets, geez they are the "fretless wonders" we've heard of indeed.
I suppose I should like them, I don't like bumpy frets.
Anyway this thread is getting one of the most informative on the HR I've come thru. Really cool

[Jx30510]

I've had a lot of pictures of the guitar. It's globally in good shape, except for one shot of the side of the neck near the nut where you can see a crack between the fretboard and the neck. I've already experienced this with a 1989 Korean Washburn Wes Montgomery model, where the fretboard could be pulled back from the neck
A luthier glued it and it never moved again since (almost 10 years ago, and I gave the guitar to my brother who plays it weekly).
But on a 1974 Gibson it gets me a little bit more nervous. It doesn't seem to be very bad, but the very light crack is there..
Have a look

[Jx30510]

Here's how it looks like on the other side of the neck. Very much less apparent.. Which makes me think it's not really a big deal..

[Jx30510]

Watch the frets by the way.. Really really flat..
But they seem to be OK

[Marty Grass]

I was thinking about the fret description in the video and wondered why I never noticed that. Then it dawned on me. The first HR I had was a Kalamazoo made Epiphone. The second one is a Gibson that's been refretted.

[wintermoon]

Here's how it looks like on the other side of the neck. Very much less apparent.. Which makes me think it's not really a big deal..

that's absolutely nothing, especially for a 45 yr old guitar, though some here would have a heart attack if they saw that....

[339 in june]

Not that it means a lot, but you may have to notice that it is marked as a 2nd

if I aint mistaken

[Jx30510]

Hi there
Yes I definitely saw that, and hunted a bit on the subject a few days ago.
What I understand is the "2" mark is only comestic flaw, where the guitar didn't pass the quality control for that only reason. The guitar would then go back to the paint booth to fix the problem, and would have that "2" stamped. I also read that Gibson would put that "2" to allow guitars that wouldn't sell very well to be cut down in price and get them out of stock.
What I've also heard of is that Gibson would just destroy the guitars that had real structural flaws, or defects?
I don't know what's real or urban legend in these facts..
So you saw the guitar for sale and the general shape. Do you think 2000€ is a good deal?
I tend to think so, but I'm still on the fence pulling the trigger.

[339 in june]

I just saw the ad, not the guitar.
So sorry I can't help you more with that
Go have a drive to try it before the next lockdown and you'll know for sure !