Epiphone Windsor vs Sorrento vs Casino

**benjamin** · 10-11-2020, 06:36 PM

Hi everyone,

I went to try some guitars today and unexpectedly I tried a vintage Epiphone Windsor. I had never heard of them, and totally loved the playability and sound of that guitar. I think they were made in a very short amount of time and the guy is asking a lot of money for it. 5000 euros which is the price of an L7 I tried at his place that was my main interest.
I think it is way too much for that type of guitar (the windsor) but on the other hand it seems to be extremely rare...

Anybody knows something about these guitars? How much are they worth? How do they compare to the vintage Sorrentos or the newer models (casino, sorrento reissue 62 etc) which are easier to find it seems...

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

Best,

Ben

**Dennis D** · 10-11-2020, 08:49 PM

Hope this helps !

http://www.guitarhq.com/epiphone.html

**benjamin** · 10-12-2020, 04:10 AM

Originally Posted by Dennis D

Hope this helps !

Vintage Guitars Info - Epiphone vintage guitar collecting general info

thanks!!

Anybody experienced both à Windsor and à Sorrento? Are they very similar in sound?

**Little Jay** · 10-12-2020, 05:48 AM

No experience with a vintage Windsor, but Epiphone is nowadays made in China (70ies and 80ies in Japan, 90ies in Korea, early 2000s China) and has become a lower price budget brand - although with a lot of bang for the buck, imho.

I don't think the comparison of a vintage Windsor with a modern production Sorento or Casino is entirely fair (the market value will differ several $1000s as well): the modern production uses lesser grade woods and hardware and some cheaper production techniques as well. My Korean Epiphone Sheraton for example is a very nice guitar but it definitely cuts corners: back and top are glued directly to the sides without kerfed liners for example, and the center block is (loosely) shaped to fit the arch of top and back and glued directly to it, where a vintage Sheraton uses a square centre block between kerfed spruce spacers that are shaped to follow the arch. Also hardware and electronics are cheaper: mini pots, thinner wiring with plastic insulation instead of the braided wiring, Asian made pickups. Lastly, vintage instruments are finished in nitro lacquer and modern Epiphones use poly (how that influences the sound is a whole debate on it's own).

But Epiphone is a very nice budget brand and the Chinese production is remarkably good imho.

**Doctor Jeff** · 10-12-2020, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by Little Jay

No experience with a vintage Windsor, but Epiphone is nowadays made in China (70ies and 80ies in Japan, 90ies in Korea, early 2000s China) and has become a lower price budget brand - although with a lot of bang for the buck, imho.

I don't think the comparison of a vintage Windsor with a modern production Sorento or Casino is entirely fair (the market value will differ several $1000s as well): the modern production uses lesser grade woods and hardware and some cheaper production techniques as well. My Korean Epiphone Sheraton for example is a very nice guitar but it definitely cuts corners: back and top are glued directly to the sides without kerfed liners for example, and the center block is (loosely) shaped to fit the arch of top and back and glued directly to it, where a vintage Sheraton uses a square centre block between kerfed spruce spacers that are shaped to follow the arch. Also hardware and electronics are cheaper: mini pots, thinner wiring with plastic insulation instead of the braided wiring, Asian made pickups. Lastly, vintage instruments are finished in nitro lacquer and modern Epiphones use poly (how that influences the sound is a whole debate on it's own).

But Epiphone is a very nice budget brand and the Chinese production is remarkably good imho.

Well some of the 2000’s guitars were made in Indonesia as well. Don’t they still have some production, or is it all in China?

I am curious about the glue up. Of course the kerfed liner is traditional, but maybe to compensate for lower quality glue and perhaps less careful routing and clamping? One would think with modern production techniques maybe the liner is not necessary, especially with modern glues, which are extremely reliable. Of course the real test will be in 50 years, at which time probably no one will care about a 2020 Epiphone, but then some of the vintage guitars we love had major glue problems—Guild for instance.

**Little Jay** · 10-12-2020, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff

Well some of the 2000’s guitars were made in Indonesia as well. Don’t they still have some production, or is it all in China?

I am curious about the glue up. Of course the kerfed liner is traditional, but maybe to compensate for lower quality glue and perhaps less careful routing and clamping? One would think with modern production techniques maybe the liner is not necessary, especially with modern glues, which are extremely reliable. Of course the real test will be in 50 years, at which time probably no one will care about a 2020 Epiphone, but then some of the vintage guitars we love had major glue problems—Guild for instance.

Ah yes, I had forgotten about Indonesia. Yes, I think some Epiphones still come from there but I don’t know what models.

My cheapo Ibanez AF55 is made in Indonesia but does have the traditional kerfed lining:

(actually everything about that guitar seems to be just a bit above Chinese guitars in the same budget range....).

But the Chinese low budget guitars are onto something perhaps: most of the available hollow and semi-hollow kits and the lower budget hollow body models lack the use of kerfed lining and bracing of the top. The all have a (rather large) sound post instead. This construction was pioneered in the late 70ies and the 80ies by the budget Japanese guitars; my Condor ES-175 is an example.

But the Chinese guitars also have a new neck construction: no dove tails or anything, just a big heel block glued into a neck pocket:

Seems to work!

**neatomic** · 10-12-2020, 05:04 PM

the fairly recent '62 sorrento edition was one of the best epi reissues i ever played

cheers

**benjamin** · 10-13-2020, 12:31 PM

Thanks for all the advice!!

anyone has a Windsor and know how much they are worth?

**Hammertone** · 10-13-2020, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by benjamin

Anybody experienced both a Windsor and a Sorrento? Are they very similar in sound?

I had an early '60s Sorrento for years, that was an excellent guitar. And I played a Windsor that belonged to a friend. The Sorrento was very much like an ES-125TC, but with a mini-humbucker instead of a P-90. The Windsor felt like it had the geometry of a Gibson ES-225 - which is marginally different. Still a lovely guitar, but it did not feel the same. Very cool guitar.
I can't speak to specific current value except to say that 5000 euros is WAY too much money, even at inflated european dealer prices.