The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    I recently got my first ES 125 from the classifieds in this forum. The 56 has it all, functioning original pickguard, original p90/knobs/wiring, great internals, good looking externally and it makes the magic tone wise.
    I will never alter that guitar BUT...
    After I got the 56 I wanted another ES with a cutaway and in the thin body. I wanted a rock and roll brother to my classy 56. I found one that is the exactly opposite of the 56.

    The 1960 ES 125 TC has a pretty horrifically broken headstock fix, the original P90/knobs and wiring are all gone (Lindy Fralin P90 now), it looks like someone reamed out the tuner holes, the original tuners are gone, strap buttons have been added. I think that's it. I got it for a third of of the price (It had 41 watchers on Reverb).
    It showed up today in a nice old hard case. I tuned it up and went to town. It sounds great and plays even lower than my 56. I am going to get my luthier to approve of the headstock issue and then I have some plans. This post is to see what all of you think.
    I want to;
    Add a second Lindy P90 and that means routing out the top
    Add a 3 way switch (I may run the two pickups via one vol and one tone)
    Add a Bigsby
    Change out the terrible tuners
    Change the bridge (it's not original either)

    Sacrilege or an awesome ES project guitar?
    To Cut or Not to Cut - 1960 ES-125 TC-gqrwp372mg2cgftwx9mg-jpgTo Cut or Not to Cut - 1960 ES-125 TC-fxj62jdiimqlyaivc4dk-jpgTo Cut or Not to Cut - 1960 ES-125 TC-60es1-jpgTo Cut or Not to Cut - 1960 ES-125 TC-60es-jpg

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  3. #2

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    In a case like this, I without hesitation say go for it. Any collectible value that it ever had is completely gone and it is already a laminate with holes in the top anyway. Make it what you want. I picked up a Gibson Barney Kessel that had a horrible refinish, so now it’s going to have that stripped and get a new vintage natural (clear amber) finish. Since it had already been refinished badly, I don’t feel bad about giving it a finish that it didn’t originally have and I’m not sure if any even had done as a factory finish.

  4. #3

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    This sounds like a resurrection and restoration project! Go for it!

  5. #4

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    Totally. But I think if you’re going to have 2 pickups I would recommend at least individual volume knobs.


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  6. #5

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    Well, I have another point of view. It so happens that I have a 1960s ES-125 that I like a lot. All original. It also so happens that I have just bought a 125-TC, also from the 1960s. After the minor adjustments and setup, I will play it. Then compare the two. Maybe keep both, maybe sell one, who knows? The point is, why embark on any big changes before playing, comparing, pondering for a while?
    Last edited by Phil59; 10-07-2020 at 11:40 PM.

  7. #6

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    That is a great guitar for that project. I'd even re-finish the neck. The only thing is, many on this forum don't even use the neck pickup. Who has any idea what that will sound like with one?

    I'd replace the tuners, set it up with your favorite strings, dress frets and play for a while. If you would regret adding the pickup in a year, then play it like this for a year then decide.

    Maybe experiment with a floater before making a permanent change?

    To Cut or Not to Cut - 1960 ES-125 TC-img_1210-jpg

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by icr
    The only thing is, many on this forum don't even use the neck pickup. Who has any idea what that will sound like with one?
    You might mean that they don't use the bridge pickup. Most don't. So why add a bridge pickup now until the OP is sure he wants one?

  9. #8

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    In my opinion, if it’s going to be the “rock n roll brother”, it needs a bridge pickup.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
    In my opinion, if it’s going to be the “rock n roll brother”, it needs a bridge pickup.
    Good point. But for a “rock n roll brother," wouldn't it be better to get a step brother, such as a Les Paul Jr. or an SG?

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil59
    Good point. But for a “rock n roll brother," wouldn't it be better to get a step brother, such as a Les Paul Jr. or an SG?
    Think Epiphone Casino or ES-330. The Beatles and Chuck Berry are just a couple who took those a long way. An ES-125TDC is very much like a singlecut version of one of those.

  12. #11

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    I use a bridge floater on my ES125 which is my Swiss Army guitar. It is a good reversible solution, just make sure it is hot enough to run with the P90 neck.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
    Think Epiphone Casino or ES-330. The Beatles and Chuck Berry are just a couple who took those a long way. An ES-125TDC is very much like a singlecut version of one of those.
    Maybe you're right, who knows? I'm thinking of the 125tc I just got as a more rock-oriented guitar too. But it's almost all original. I suspect that round wound strings instead of flats, putting more treble on the amp and using some light overdrive would be enough for me.

  14. #13

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    I currently own an SG (my favorite electric guitar), a 1972 Ovation 335 clone, and a ton of other electrics. I am open to playing it for a while before making a move. I am also looking at a floating bridge pickup. It's all about the tonal palette but maybe I do need to play this one for while before cutting holes. BUT my 56 has one pickup so maybe the 60 really needs two P90s.
    Last edited by BillyHell; 10-08-2020 at 01:10 AM.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eck
    Totally. But I think if you’re going to have 2 pickups I would recommend at least individual volume knobs.


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    This may take getting used to but I use stack knobs on my 125 for getting around adding more holes. Keeping the hardware off the plate is important as I use the top for acoustic sounds with transducers too. Of course this means I run stereo to use them but such is the price of the Swiss Army approach....

  16. #15

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    Totally appreciate not adding more holes. And there is something to say for a previous comment why to change a guitar into something else if it’s good. But then again I’m thinking of routing out my lp double cutaway on the back, closing it with ply and adding good paint and banding.


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  17. #16

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    I'd go for it. Between the mods and the headstock damage I'd consider it fair game.

    In addition, if the neck break repair gets the thumbs up, I'd use a dark wood stain to try to hide it a bit more. It looks nasty.

  18. #17

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    Idea: have one tone knob and one mix knob, the latter going from only neck through 50/50 on to only bridge.
    Edited I realise that will still require a double pot to adjust volume.

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  19. #18

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    The luthier likes it. So now I buying the gear. Trying to figure out the polarity of my neck pickup.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eck
    Idea: have one tone knob and one mix knob, the latter going from only neck through 50/50 on to only bridge.
    Edited I realise that will still require a double pot to adjust volume.

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    I have a mix knob on my pickguard that blends between the magnetic pickups and transducers. I use a mini 3 way switch on the pickguard for switching the between magnetics.

  21. #20

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    Next is the Bigsby. I'm looking for photos of the 125 with a Bigsby. I'm noting the B6 is longer than the B60 (I'm seeing that via specs on the Bigsby site)? I'm out on Google looking for photos of different Bigsbys on an ES 125 but not really finding anything specific yet. Any suggestions would be great.

  22. #21

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    Billyhell, if you are thinking about getting rid of the tailpiece please let me know how much you want for it. PM me, please.

  23. #22

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    Alright, I figured out I have a Seymour Duncan Antiquity P90 in the neck so I bought one for the bridge. I bought 250 CTS pots and .022 orange drops. I also bought knobs that look like the stock knobs. The SD is already aged. I Scotch padded the knobs to mimic the ones on my 56 ES. I have a B6 Bigsby that I have knocked the shine off of and have Nevr Dull coming to help wear away some of the black paint. I also have a Compton bridge that I'm going to try. While I have done all the work on all of my guitars I am handing this over to my luthier (who is 3 minutes up the road). I'll let him rout out the P90 and drill holes in the top. I should have it all ready to rock on Wed. and then we will see how long my luthier takes.

  24. #23

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    Well if you are routing and drilling..... What do you think of Vibrolas? I love the one on my old SG and they add less mass. If you have a Bigsby you like I can see why you want to go that way, I haven't actually played with them much so don't have a recent comparison. Both don't add the Fender spring tremelo chorus effect which is a plus for certain tones.

  25. #24

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    I like 500k pots better with P90s, just gives you a little more treble. For a rock’n’roll guitar I would like that.

    One set of controls for both pickups is actually easier to opetate than the double set. But it demands a better balanced set of pickups with the bridge pickup hotter than the neck. Works fine in the two Framus guitars I have, but I have to carefully adjust the height of the bridge pu to match the neck. Easy enough with height adjustable pickups, but in your case you most certainly need to shim the bridge pu. But that’s doable.

    The tuners are Klusons Deluxe? What’s horrible about them? Those are standard for an ES-125....

    Are you putting a Bigsby? A sound post under the bridge might be a welcome addition for a Rock’n’roll guitar?

    *edit: ah you are putting a Bigsby and double set of controls, good. Still might need to shim the bridge PU to balance the outputs. You are turning it into an ES-225 TDC which is a great rock’n’roll guitar imho. Nice project!

  26. #25

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    It’s easier to find pictures online of the 225 with Bigsby: