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Having spent several hours in a couple nice shops comparing cheap and expensive Fender guitars, the sweet spot was around 1000$. Cheaper guitars tended to have less rounded corners so to speak, little things that makes playing feel good. Any more than that and we are in relic territory.
And for me, the feel of the neck is the most important parameter, I have a pinched nerve in the left hand and it’s always a fraction of a millimeter away from disaster.
My favorite tele is an Mjt heavy relic thinline, I got it cheap, put good pickups in, had it refretted with jumbo. All in all around 1100$ invested. The relic is totally unrealistic unless one keeps guitars in a big pile like Yngwie Malmsteen. But that means I can tote it around and not care about dings. And the reliced neck just melts into my hand.
Fwiw I know several pros that own 60’s strats and had a luthier build replicas of those for gigging. I think it’s around 30k for such a replica over here.
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10-07-2020 01:06 AM
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The neck is one of the most important parts for sure. I personally prefer lacquer-free necks at least on the back for best playability and incredible smoothness (for example thin nitro on the headstock and fretboard, oil/wax dye on the sanded back, finished with linseed oil). Or roasted maple, burnished up to 2000 grit and oiled (see pictures).
I like all those fantastic necks from Warmoth, Allparts or Musikraft, but they need a lot of work. A perfect fret job on an allparts neck takes at least 5-6 hours, rolling the fretboard edges another 2 hours. Sanding the neck (tadeo taper?) also 2 hours. Finishing the neck adds at least another 5 hours, aging that guy another full day. All in all 20 hrs. of work, at least. The final result is a perfect neck. What's that worth?
Last edited by Stefan Eff; 10-07-2020 at 05:48 AM.
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It's worth way more than I can sell that tele for unfortunately. So it stays :-)
Originally Posted by Stefan Eff
Wow, did you make that neck? Respect! Do you do this for a living or for yourself?
Maybe I can take the opportunity then to ask - if you have a neck with poly finish that tends to stick and want to make it smooth, what is the best strategy? 0000 steel wool and then oil?
Also do you roll the edge with the frets on?
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Thanks! Originally Posted by frankhond
- I mostly choose unfinished necks from Allparts, Musikraft or Warmoth. I do the shaping, the fretjob, finishing and maybe relicing (same as Mr.Banos, btw). The highgrade flamed maple is a Warmoth roasted neck, on the tangerine Esquire a Musikraft and the reliced one an Allpartsneck).
- That's all private stock. But I'm planning a small business in the near future.
- You won't get rid of all the Polycoatings for an oilfinish unfortunately. But you can sand down the Poly to achieve a matte finish which is far more comfortable. I avoid steelwool (even if I'm a friend of old techniques
) and use 3-M pads. You can try Truoil on the matte Poly since Truoil is also a rub-on Polyfinish if you want the smooth finish to last. 2-3 thin coats and also smooth sanding with a 3-M pad after drying/hardening for a few days. - Frets on (see above).
Last edited by Stefan Eff; 10-07-2020 at 08:44 AM.
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That really sucks. I'm 51, and have just started having issues with thumb & forefinger hurting (not sure what that is yet, I have chronic Lyme disease, so don't know if it's that or arthritis or...).... also, I'll occasionally have numbest/tingling issues in my fretting hand for some reason. I wish you well! Originally Posted by frankhond
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Don't overlook the cervical spine. Originally Posted by ruger9
I was taught the classic "walk like an Egyptian" (slowly!) head/neck exercise and it helps me.
Best of luck to you.
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Originally Posted by jads57
Not the owning it that bothers me. It's the inference that I'm Cool or in the In Crowd so to speak. Just like High School, and being the rich kid who got a Corvette for his birthday!
No doubt owning a Corvette is cool, but knowing how to drive it is infinitely Cooler
After a break from the forum I couldn't remember why I stopped coming here. It was you and your gatekeeping elitist attitude. You aren't better than anyone else here because you slummed it as a musician. If I remember correctly you don't even have an album to show for after your career, so what gives you the right to brag? You have NOTHING to back yourself up. A better forum would have banned you by now for constantly putting people down.
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Or, you could just learn to ignore people you don't want to read.... Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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Just ignore him like most of us do. He is a professional cowboy chord strummer. I checked out his bio, he is not much of a jazz player, but acts like he is an expert on the jazz site. He's just a learner, not an elite when it comes to jazz. That's why he's got these insecure outbursts every now and then. He is mostly found in the gear section. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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You clearly haven't seen Ed Bickert's Tele. Originally Posted by Litterick
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Where’s the popcorn
?
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I aim for a body weight of 3.5 - 4.0 lbs. on the ones that I play, which may be a function of my age as well as the wood itself. I have a couple with bodies that are few ounces north of 4 lbs - still pretty easy on the shoulder. Nothing wrong with a heavier guitar if that's what floats your boat. Either can sound great. Originally Posted by Stefan Eff
The nice thing about aiming for a '50s-style tele is that it so simple. The design range is very narrow - the hardware needs to be as cheap as that on the originals, which keeps costs down, if one is concerned with such matters. The brand halo by which some folks choose to warm themselves is fine by me. Kudos to the marketing skills of anyone who can fetch big dough. It's a big tent, and I'm thankful that, if I ever want to spend a bigger pile of money on a copy of a Telecaster, I have many options.Last edited by Hammertone; 01-02-2021 at 12:14 AM.
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4,75lbs (2.1 kg) is still a lightweight body, no? Approx. ~3 kg (6.6 lbs) when finally assembled. That’s everything but heavy. Remember many of the old Broadcasters were in the 9-10lbs range. Originally Posted by Hammertone
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Yes, I agree. My old back simply likes them lighter. Somewhere out there is a description of the total hardware weight for teles and strats, that makes it easy to determine total final weight. Originally Posted by Stefan Eff
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When I ordered a Warmoth Strat neck, this is what they said about the neck weights:
"Most necks regardless of wood species will average about 1lbs 7oz to 1lbs 9oz in weight. Roasted Maple being the lightest wood species we offer due to the torrefication process would be on the lighter side of the spectrum."
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Elitist no, Realist more like it! I'm not stopping anyone and can't from living their fantasy. I'm pointing out as a lifelong guitarist who s made his living with these tools the realities.
Being 63 years old and owning most of the iconic guitars Gibson and Fender have made from the 1950's to the present. As well as amps like Dumbles ,etc
I speak from first hand knowledge. And used in real situations gigs,studio,etc.
I'm pointing out that there is a point that tools no longer tools past a certain price. They become acquisitions for a totally different purpose. And they no longer are what they were intended for!
Sure they are excellent but aside from bragging rights, what exactly are you buying?
I bought my Dumble OD Special for under $1500 back in 1980. That was very expensive, and a Mesa Boogie was under $1k for a similar amp.
Today they make replicas of Dumbles for the same asking price. And they are incredibly accurate!
Is it worth paying incredible mounts of money for the actual thing?
All I hear many say is it's my money and I can do what I want! Sure you can do whatever you like! But why is it an investment for $$ or does it serve an actual purpose.
It generally comes down to making one self feel Cool and Special! And while I get it. Tools are just that, they aren't the music itself.
So if you buy these tools please use them or loan them to someone to make some great Music. They don't do any good in a closet?
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Originally Posted by ruger9
Thanks guys! Originally Posted by rabbit
Don't overlook the cervical spine.
I was taught the classic "walk like an Egyptian" (slowly!) head/neck exercise and it helps me.
Best of luck to you.
After a lot of trial and error I found a body geometry that keeps me symptom free, if the guitar neck is right, provided I stick to that geometry religiously. Unfortunately I have to play a guitar for some time to know whether it will work... but I learnt by now that it needs to have this fairly rounded profile with at least medium jumbo frets and rolled edge. Had to get rid of a very nice Martin for this reason.
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While I agree with alot of your argument, I don't agree with this. Even if a "tool" costs 6K it's STILL a tool, not an acquisition... if you PLAY it, and most certainly if you make your living with it! As a matter of fact, making a living with it is about the only thing that would justify (for ME) paying 6K for a guitar. Originally Posted by jads57
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For an Esquire you can count ~ 2.5 lbs total for a regular maple neck & hardware. Originally Posted by Tal_175
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In my experience, whatever it is, if you can reasonably afford it, you love it, and you USE it, price doesn't really matter. Things that cost a lot that you use lot eventually cost pennies per hour - and save you the time value of money from the ongoing chase. It's the stuff we buy that we don't use or that we end up taking a bath on when selling that are "expensive". It's much less expensive to pay more and avoid the costly upgrade merry-go-round, even if the upgrades are not driven by need but rather by desire. I learned this the hard way. Of course experience helps refine our sense of what we will actually love and therefore will keep, and it's inevitable to take a few lumps along the way.
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Guys no argument about expensive tools. The problem becomes when it's no longer about a useful tool, and it's solely about bragging rights.
And especially when the the person bragging either doesn't actually have the ability to understand the difference. Yet perpetuates a myth that doesn't exist.
How can you tell something is better just by its asking price? Especially if you can't try it out? I actually played a Dumble before I bought mine. As well as the expensive guitars vintage and new first before purchasing.
I've been able to play a lot of so called over priced Boutique gear as well. Much of it is simply posturing and making $$$ off of people.
And then there arethe few that are worth it. But I don't trust it until I can play it,especially on a gig
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I don't see guitar as a 'tool'. A tool does not go as far as being extension of myself. A tool does not represent the critical and complex interface between what I feel and think and mechanical reproduction to sound waves. The variables and details are critically important and are a blend of art, craft, and science. Finally, a tool does not inspire me to play music. And music is pretty important.
Last edited by Spook410; 10-07-2020 at 03:31 PM.
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Can someone point me to all of these threads where people are bragging about their expensive gear? I must have missed them while I was working and not gigging.
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I also think the „Tool“ term says more about the player than the instrument.
And again: I wasn‘t bragging about expensive gear, I was only in search of some pictures.
Very interesting thread development
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A plumber requires tools , a doctor requires tools as well as diagnostic tools to do their job. The only musical position that comes with the human anatomy, is your voice and a the brain to create music.
Try playing Air Guitar and see how far you get? Musical instruments are tools!
They can be quite expensive or cheap to get the job done.
My point is and still is why do pay 5 to 50 times the cost to get it done?
There is validity in nicer finer things, but only to a point where it's not worth it any longer.
And I agree about feel and choice, but let's get real about what these things are and for whom the targeted audience they're intended for.
When a new simpler constructed guitar can fetch what a hand carved archtop from a similar well know luthier, there in lies the answer
It certainly isnt the parts or woods, nor even the skill level required nor hours involved. But I dont doubt they are well built solid body guitars. Just over priced!
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René Magritte
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