The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    I have several Eastman archtop guitars here. I have used them at a regular bar open mic that I used to go to pre Covid. I have the AR805CE, the Frank V model, AR371CE, and two AR503CE guitars. I found myself using the AR503CE guitars the most. Although not acoustic cannons, they have more than enough acoustic volume for me for home practice. From a comfort point of view I like the thin 16" archtops. I also found the guitars very easy to use in that louder bar setting.

    The older 503 sound a little more mellow to me (unplugged). I like the Benedetto A6 that I put in that guitar. I like the A6 more than the SD Seth Lover that came in the newer 503.

    The AR371CE seems quite resonant to me for lower frequencies. I find it can sound a little thin for upper frequencies. (unplugged) Nothing I can't get used to.

    The AR805CE I have is from 2005. It's been a while since I have seen a newer one. It can sound a little warm in the middle range.

    The Frank V guitar I find to be quite amazing. Although not as warm as the other guitars, I find it has incredible acoustic dynamics, with very good note to note separation, and consistent attack and decay. One luthier set this up with a low action and I ended up changing it back to a more traditional acoustic action. Not sure why, but I find it extremely difficult to play this guitar with a light touch. It seems to compel you to really dig in and play with real gusto. I did bring the guitar out a few times and found I did struggle with that pickup when the volumes got a loud. The one I have came with a rather generous 1 3/4 nut. (I measure closer to 1 13/16) I struggle at time with the nut width.

    In recent years I found myself playing the AR503CE guitars. I just found them to be very versatile and suitable for home unplugged practice, and great for an evening out at noisy bar.

    As I don't see myself going to a bar anytime soon. I am trying to spend more time with the FV guitar. I think it's a great guitar for home playing and recording.

    I am often surprised when I see people generalizing about Eastman archtop guitars. They make a lot of different archtop guitars and they all sound different to me.



    Danielle

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    The Empress ParaEQ also solves a lot of feedback problems. Usually it's a specific frequency that feeds back. With the EQ you can specifically turn dow the gain on that frequency without losing tone.

  4. #28

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    The average person can't hear the difference in a $100 squire Telecaster and a $10k Carved Gibson. They both sound like guitars.

  5. #29

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    I play in a 16-18 piece big band. I have found my AR610 with a clip on microphone loud enough with no feedback issues. I use a LoudBox mini on the floor aimed at the trumpets away from me.

    Archtops/vs semis in a loud setting.-dsc_0018-b-2018_08_24-00_11_34-utc-jpg

  6. #30

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    I have played out in almost every conceivable setting for more than 50 years--everything from folk to jazz to rock to blues and everything in between. If I know that the situation calls for LOUD music I almost invariably play a solid-body or semi-acoustic guitar. I don't particularly prefer the tone, but I know that I can control the guitar in the mix and out in the house better than I can an archtop (laminate or carved-body).

    I vastly prefer gigs where I am permitted to play at volumes that people can converse over--if they choose to chat. Especially with jazz, I simply prefer to present the music at lower volumes. You can still generate a ton of energy without rattling the windows.

    When the gig permits these more sensible-shoes volume levels, I without question prefer to use either a laminate-body or carved-body archtop guitar. The tones these guitars get when playing jazz charts are unbeatable. You just aren't going to sound like Kenny Burrell, Grant Green, Herb Ellis, Joe Pass, Jim Hall, Attila Zoller, Wes Montgomery, Barney Kessel, or Tal Farlow on a Stratocaster or a Les Paul.

  7. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greentone
    You just aren't going to sound like Kenny Burrell, Grant Green, Herb Ellis, Joe Pass, Jim Hall, Attila Zoller, Wes Montgomery, Barney Kessel, or Tal Farlow on a Stratocaster or a Les Paul.
    The words 'on a Stratocaster or a Les Paul.' are unnecessary of course... but yes.

    I don't think this is altogether a bad thing, though. We all have to find our own sound. I know this will be heresy to many here, but TBH I'm not entirely sure I'm a huge fan of any of those player's *tones* per se - more the music they were playing.

    In a way I think the classic jazz guitar tone is a product of the limitations of its era - the difficulty in getting a representation of an acoustic guitar tone, which itself then became the iconic jazz guitar sound.

    The problem for me with that tone is its lack of sonic depth... I can listen to an album of piano trio music without tiring of the tonal world, but with classic jazz guitar, I find it tires the ear after a while in the way an acoustic instrument doesn't.

    Players that use solid body guitars or play hollow and semi hollow guitars as electric guitars are more likely to use stereo set ups, modulation, drives, reverbs and so on to get a larger acoustic picture. Any electric guitarist has to deal with the problem of the instrument sounding sort of one dimensional and kind of small in the mix, a bit pokey and nasty if turned up too loud. You may not enjoy the tone of Mike Stern, Kurt Rosenwinkel, Pat Metheny or Bill Frisell; but that's why they are doing what they are doing.

    With an arcthop in the studio the solution is simple - mic the guitar and the amp (and you need an arch top or some sort of amplified acoustic for this.) Chico Pinheiro actually does this live with a DPA and a magnetic pickup on his arch top, and he makes it work with drums.

    Playing quietly is the other option - hearing just some of the acoustic sound does a lot to give a three dimensional sound... It always upsets me when I have to turn up the amp. I always hate the sound, even on a nice Fender amp. I've come to terms with it, but it is not an easy sound. While many get a great sound straight into a Fender amp live, I have to say I know of no archtop playing jazz guitarist who sounds better amplified in this way then they do acoustic. Unless they have an electric 'concept' tone like the players I mentioned above...

    OTOH piezo usually sound bad to me unless they are similarly effected. However; the ToneDexter and similar advanced IR preamp systems are pretty amazing, but I've not had a high chance to try these on stage, because 2020*. A mixed ToneDexter/electric sound might be a really good thing for trios with an arch top.

    *I got mine in March - used it on a tour with a flattop and it's pretty incredible; I have recordings from the desk and you would think it was miked.

  8. #32

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    Christian,

    Certainly, I recognize your point--and I enjoy Frizell's music and tone. Just not as much as the folks I mentioned.

    It's a "de gustibus non disputandum est" matter, ultimately.

    For me, jazz guitar is pretty much always going to be an archtop guitar deal--even if I regularly play out (covid-permitting) with a Telecaster or a Strat. The tone of a Gibson ES-175 into a Polytone Minibrute, or a Gibson L-5CES into a Fender Twin Reverb is just the sound I'm after most of the time.

    GT

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greentone
    Christian,

    Certainly, I recognize your point--and I enjoy Frizell's music and tone. Just not as much as the folks I mentioned.

    It's a "de gustibus non disputandum est" matter, ultimately.

    For me, jazz guitar is pretty much always going to be an archtop guitar deal--even if I regularly play out (covid-permitting) with a Telecaster or a Strat. The tone of a Gibson ES-175 into a Polytone Minibrute, or a Gibson L-5CES into a Fender Twin Reverb is just the sound I'm after most of the time.

    GT
    A Gibson hollowbody through a low Fender amp is hard to beat. The frustration to me that that sound does not scale up...

  10. #34

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    An observation from an admitted heretic...

    Ed Bickert was the guitar player for the Boss Brass, arguably the most prominent big band of the last 40 years and he played his Tele.

    Paul Shigihara is the current resident guitar player for the WDR Big Band, and he mostly plays a Godin Superstrat type guitar.

    Dave Stryker recently released a very nice new album fronting the WDR Big Band and he's playing a Gison ES347 (a 335 style semi-hollow).

  11. #35

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    +1 I applaud your pragmatism.
    I experiencef the same realization, BTW nothing to do with Covid, just happened at the same time, after selling off most of my equipment for finanical reasons late last year and early this year. Now I think alot about practicality with usage and bang for the buck. Cheaper Epiphone guitars, with major hardware and pickup upgrades. The fundamental guitar builds coming from China are fantastic.


    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound
    I should have clarified that I am deciding between my Eastman carved, my Sadowsky lam arch, and a Carvin Semi. When I'm playing in the loud big band, I've been struggling between the Sadowsky and the Carvin. The Sad sounds better for rhythm, Basie stuff, etc. But for solos the semi just seems to come through cleaner. Ideally, I'd like to use both. But often in the middle of a tune the bandleader will suddenly point to me and say "Take one!" And if I'm playing the Sad lam guitar it can tend to woof feedback during the solo. I just don't know if it's worth having an expensive lam guitar anymore. Carved top at home or for pit work or intimate settings, semi for loud stuff where people don't know the difference. Covid is making me want to get rid of the Sad and put the $ to other things.

  12. #36

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    With or without alcohol involved also.
    Quote Originally Posted by AllanAllen
    The average person can't hear the difference in a $100 squire Telecaster and a $10k Carved Gibson. They both sound like guitars.

  13. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Also has anyone used acoustic preamp style notch EQ with an archtop?
    Yes, but not successfully. On the other hand, a high pass filter (like on a Clarus or the Brute EQ Polytone pedal) works really well.