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  1. #1

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    Hi everyone!

    Newbie here.

    I bought a new Ibanez AS200 at the end of 2018. Since then I just (try to) play Jazz with it. Thomastik BB113 and a Fender-ish clean amp, no complaints here.

    Recently I want to get more versatility out of it, so I put a set of Daddario .011 gauge (exl115) and add some overdrive to play not just Jazz, but also some blues.

    The problem is that it seems that the pickups are TOO hot. Nice clean sound, fat and defined, but don't match well with anything over the edge of breakup.

    Is it the caracter of the Super 58?

    Is that guitar more oriented to play jazz than a 335 wich can do well all things?

    Thanks in advance for your answers.
    Last edited by CharlesR; 09-11-2020 at 10:36 AM.

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  3. #2

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    Try lowering the pickups closer to their pickup rings. Super 58's are used on many of Ibanez's high end and artist models.
    Also, they have AlNiCo 3 magnets which should give you an over smooth and balanced output.

    The only caveat is if your AS200 has Super 58 'Customs'. Those are typically used in Ibanez's lesser models and some users don't care for them. I'm not sure what their specs are.

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlesR
    Hi everyone!

    Newbie here.

    I bought a new Ibanez AS200 at the end of 2018. Since then I just (try to) play Jazz with it. Thomastik BB113 and a Fender-ish clean amp, no complaints here.

    Recently I want to get more versatility out of it, so I put a set of Daddario .011 gauge (exl115) and add some overdrive to play not just Jazz, but also some blues.

    The problem is that it seems that the pickups are TOO hot. Nice clean sound, fat and defined, but don't match well with anything over the edge of breakup.

    Is it the caracter of the Super 58?

    Is that guitar more oriented to play jazz than a 335 wich can do well all things?

    Thanks in advance for your answers.
    As Gitfiddler said, lowering the pickups should help.
    Last edited by citizenk74; 09-11-2020 at 02:39 PM. Reason: rephrase

  5. #4

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    It's a semihollow and IME those often don't work that well with a lot of distortion. Seems like the signal is more complicated compared to a solidbody. On the edge of breakup sounds great (BB King, John Scofield- who played an AS200 for decades- and Warren Haynes to name a few.).





    Lower pickups or even just roll the volume knobs down can help. My Ibanez GB10 has really hot pickups and those are often at 6 or so even at gig volume.

  6. #5

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    The recent super 58s are clearly hotter than those from the eary 1980s. I have originals on my 1980 AS200 and they are very close in sound to the PAFs on my 1961 ES175D - marginally hotter, but that's fine for blues - I keep the volume below 8 for jazz. I also have a 2014 AR420 with recent Super 58s (trisound) - in humbucker mode I stay below 6 for jazz, or switch to a less strident parallel sound.
    I suggest either rolling off the volume on the guitar, or lowering the pickups and/or polepieces.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Gitfiddler
    Try lowering the pickups closer to their pickup rings. Super 58's are used on many of Ibanez's high end and artist models.
    Also, they have AlNiCo 3 magnets which should give you an over smooth and balanced output.

    The only caveat is if your AS200 has Super 58 'Customs'. Those are typically used in Ibanez's lesser models and some users don't care for them. I'm not sure what their specs are.
    Thanks for your reply Gitfiddler.

    I already try to lowering the pickups, the problem remains.

    The pickups are the stock ones, so must be the good ones.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Cunamara
    It's a semihollow and IME those often don't work that well with a lot of distortion. Seems like the signal is more complicated compared to a solidbody. On the edge of breakup sounds great (BB King, John Scofield- who played an AS200 for decades- and Warren Haynes to name a few.).


    Lower pickups or even just roll the volume knobs down can help. My Ibanez GB10 has really hot pickups and those are often at 6 or so even at gig volume.
    Hi Cunamara, thanks for your answer. I agree with your apreciation about semihollow vs solid bodies.

    As far as I know, Scofield use two AS200, and one of them with Florance Voodoo pickups instead of Super58. I start to supect why

    Past week I try for a couple of days some guitars from some friends.

    Gibson BB King all stock, no problem.
    Gibson 335 with Lollar Imperial, no problem
    Ibanez GB 12, PROBLEM

    What I perceive with the GB12 is the same with the AS200, is like those pickups fill the headroom of the pedals and the amp really fast.

    The only improvement was run the OD at 18 volts.

    Next week I'll try the JSM100, will report the experience.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray175
    The recent super 58s are clearly hotter than those from the eary 1980s. I have originals on my 1980 AS200 and they are very close in sound to the PAFs on my 1961 ES175D - marginally hotter, but that's fine for blues - I keep the volume below 8 for jazz. I also have a 2014 AR420 with recent Super 58s (trisound) - in humbucker mode I stay below 6 for jazz, or switch to a less strident parallel sound.
    I suggest either rolling off the volume on the guitar, or lowering the pickups and/or polepieces.
    Thanks Ray, is a good point to know that there is real difference from the older ones. The parallel mode helps in some degree, but I don't like the sound that much.

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by citizenk74
    As Gitfiddler said, lowering the pickups should help.
    I'll try to lowering all the way down, they are already low but still have some room.

    Thanks CitizenK.

  11. #10

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    If you have ES335s that perform to your liking then just swap the pups in the AS200. Throw in a set of Classic 57s or a DiMarzio PAF or something Boutique like the Lollar Imperials you mentioned or ...


    The JSM100 is loaded with the super58 too, so should have the same issues as your AS200

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cunamara
    It's a semihollow and IME those often don't work that well with a lot of distortion. Seems like the signal is more complicated compared to a solidbody. On the edge of breakup sounds great (BB King, John Scofield- who played an AS200 for decades- and Warren Haynes to name a few.).





    Lower pickups or even just roll the volume knobs down can help. My Ibanez GB10 has really hot pickups and those are often at 6 or so even at gig volume.
    Semihollows work great with distortion, have you ever heard Cream? I'm not a fan of the super 58s really, they lose the 'air' of the semi hollow to me... I'd rather seth lovers or classic 57s

  13. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    If you have ES335s that perform to your liking then just swap the pups in the AS200. Throw in a set of Classic 57s or a DiMarzio PAF or something Boutique like the Lollar Imperials you mentioned or ...


    The JSM100 is loaded with the super58 too, so should have the same issues as your AS200
    Thanks Lobomov.

    I'm asking about the nature of the AS200 with the Super 58. For sure, changing the pickups will change the sound.

    The JSM100 that I'll try next week have some years more than my AS200, so I want to test these set of Super 58, just curious.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlesR
    Thanks Lobomov.

    I'm asking about the nature of the AS200 with the Super 58. For sure, changing the pickups will change the sound.

    The JSM100 that I'll try next week have some years more than my AS200, so I want to test these set of Super 58, just curious.
    To my ear Super 58's sound different in the JSM100 than any of the many other 58-loaded Ibanezs I've played. I can't put my finger on it, but the 58's tone is not as dynamic in that guitar. Not sure why that is, but it might be due to that guitar's build. The JSM sounds best with thicker gauge strings (11's+) or flatwounds. Sco has been known to use 13's on his AS200 so maybe Ibanez took that into consideration when they designed his signature model. I finally dialed in a nice tone from it, but it took a while. Now I love it for its unique sound compared to other semi hollow guitars.

    Looking forward to your thought after you test drive a JSM100.

  15. #14

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    you went from pure nickel thoms to nickel plated steel d'addario...more magnetic output

    try lowering the pups and return to pure nickel strings...just about every string company makes pure nickel rounds

    also how do you tame a pup?..roll back the guitar knobs..it's electrical..suddenly your 8.8k pickup is 7k


    luck

    cheers

  16. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Gitfiddler
    To my ear Super 58's sound different in the JSM100 than any of the many other 58-loaded Ibanezs I've played. I can't put my finger on it, but the 58's tone is not as dynamic in that guitar. Not sure why that is, but it might be due to that guitar's build. The JSM sounds best with thicker gauge strings (11's+) or flatwounds. Sco has been known to use 13's on his AS200 so maybe Ibanez took that into consideration when they designed his signature model. I finally dialed in a nice tone from it, but it took a while. Now I love it for its unique sound compared to other semi hollow guitars.

    Looking forward to your thought after you test drive a JSM100.
    With these three sentences you answer my questions. The last one is the more relevant, unique sound. So, very different from a 335 with PAF's? Not so versatile?

    BTW, both the JSM and the AS200 usually (varies from year to year) came wit 13's with a plain G, so you may be right, Ibanez thinks in a specific voice for that guitars.

    I'll post my thoughts on the test drive.

    Thank you Gitfiddler!

  17. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by neatomic
    you went from pure nickel thoms to nickel plated steel d'addario...more magnetic output

    try lowering the pups and return to pure nickel strings...just about every string company makes pure nickel rounds

    also how do you tame a pup?..roll back the guitar knobs..it's electrical..suddenly your 8.8k pickup is 7k


    luck

    cheers
    Yes, but also went from 13 to 11, less magnetic output.

    Rolling back the vol pot tame the volumen, and the gain, but the excessive low mids from the Super 58 are still heavy present.

    Thanks Neatomic.

    At the end I guess that this is the sound of the guitar. I love it clean, even with 11's, but don't like anything above off-clean blues tone with it.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlesR
    Yes, but also went from 13 to 11, less magnetic output.
    not really...because the thoms have a very thin inner steel round core...probably equal or less in diameter to the d'addario 11's inner hex cores...plus the d'addarios have a steel outer wrap...

    thoms are very unique!!

    also the super 58' were originally low wind paf style...many in the 6.8k/under 7k range

    i'd doubt the newer "58's" are that low wound

    anyways sounds like you figuring it out

    cheers

    ps- good current low wind paf style pups are lollar low wind imperials and guild hb-2's...right around the 7k mark

  19. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by neatomic
    not really...because the thoms have a very thin inner steel round core...probably equal or less in diameter to the d'addario 11's inner hex cores...plus the d'addarios have a steel outer wrap...

    thoms are very unique!!

    also the super 58' were originally low wind paf style...many in the 6.8k/under 7k range

    i'd doubt the newer "58's" are that low wound

    anyways sounds like you figuring it out

    cheers

    ps- good current low wind paf style pups are lollar low wind imperials and guild hb-2's...right around the 7k mark
    Ok, I will try the 11's in the pure nickel version.

    Also thinking in get a set of the old Super 58's...

    Thanks again Neatomic!

  20. #19

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    what's odd to me is that when i've played those, they always seem to be more rock than jazz to me...like getting a rock/blues sound was so easy, but they didn't have the beefiness of a 335

  21. #20
    Update.

    JSM100 and AS200, both with .011 D'addario pure nickel, sounds the same. Different feel when playing but not in sound.

    The pure nickels sounds really nice after several hours of playing, but don't solve the problem.

    I'll put again the Thomastik BB113 and enjoy that guitar for jazz only.

    Too hot and loud pickups, and at least with my setup not so versatile.

    Thanks you all for the comments .

  22. #21

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    So our study comes to an end. It's the Super58s

    At least now you know that you can always throw in a different pups and get what you want for that guitar, if you like the feel of it.

  23. #22

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    So, I just picked up an Ibanez AS120, pretty much the same guitar, same pickups, MIK instead of Japan, and I must say, I seem to be finding the same thing, these pickups are dark as heck.. not like Seth Lovers or Classic 57s at all... I think it is better for jazz, but not as good for rock
    I don't have money now, but eventually I'll probably put some Seth Lovers in it, or maybe someother PAF style pickup that has more upper mids

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by patshep
    So, I just picked up an Ibanez AS120, pretty much the same guitar, same pickups, MIK instead of Japan, and I must say, I seem to be finding the same thing, these pickups are dark as heck.. not like Seth Lovers or Classic 57s at all... I think it is better for jazz, but not as good for rock
    I don't have money now, but eventually I'll probably put some Seth Lovers in it, or maybe someother PAF style pickup that has more upper mids
    Those might actually be the Super58 that are not made in japan. Sometimes they're labelled Super58s customs, while other times that don't have the Customs surname.

  25. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by patshep
    So, I just picked up an Ibanez AS120, pretty much the same guitar, same pickups, MIK instead of Japan, and I must say, I seem to be finding the same thing, these pickups are dark as heck.. not like Seth Lovers or Classic 57s at all... I think it is better for jazz, but not as good for rock
    I don't have money now, but eventually I'll probably put some Seth Lovers in it, or maybe someother PAF style pickup that has more upper mids
    As Lobomov said, these are not the same pickups. Give it a try to Lollar Imperial too, nice sounding pickups.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    Those might actually be the Super58 that are not made in japan. Sometimes they're labelled Super58s customs, while other times that don't have the Customs surname.
    The AS120 has Japanese Super 58s
    I never like any Ibanez pickups, but love the guitars, like PRS is the same for me

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlesR
    As Lobomov said, these are not the same pickups. Give it a try to Lollar Imperial too, nice sounding pickups.
    for only $60 more than the entire guitar cost? lol