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Just curious as I see so many videos posted on here, so many guitar lists of what folks have/play, etc, etc. but none seem to include Epiphones from the 40s-50s with Epiphone picks. The Zephyr, Zephyr Regent, Deluxe, etc. I have heard people talk about the NY pickups and how great they say they are, never see much else. Also, I dont or havent seen any recording/professionals use them either.
They seem cool, just curious...Last edited by DMgolf66; 08-30-2020 at 07:30 AM.
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08-27-2020 02:11 PM
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I knew a local music teacher who had an older Epiphone Regent as his main guitar. He used it for instruction and gigging.
I am interested in saying what kind of answers you get, because I don't read as much about Epiphone archtops as I used to around here.
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The pickups are typically thought to be inferior to Gibsons, though you'd never know it by listening to some of Billy Beans recordings for example.
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There are plenty of pictures of Billy Bauer playing Epiphones. Here's one: Billy Bauer (1915-2005)
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I have only played maybe 3 vintage Epiphones. All Zephyr's from the 50's I think. They sounded very thin and tinny to my ears. Of course it's hard to say the way guitar shops would set up their archtops and the strings probably had something to do with it. But compared to others in the same situation, didn't care for them.
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Just thought I'd post link from that article. Really nice playing of a classic !!
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I think the more basic answer to the original question is that there weren't all that many built in the first place, and many of the ones that were built didn't survive.
One anecdote often comes to mind for me in Epiphone conversations. When I started playing in the late 70s, there was a row of instrument shops/pawn shops on 3rd Avenue near 11th St. in Manhattan. IIRC, they were (or had been) owned by the same family that owned We Buy, Accent, and Stuyvesant 9n 48th Street, and (again IIIRC), one of these storefronts was called Stuyvesant (much of the E. Village and what became Stuyvesant Town was part of Peter Stuyvesant's estate, and all kinds of things used to be named Stuvesant something-or-other).
Anyway, these shops were filled with old Epiphone archtops, with NY pickups, all beat to hell (falling apart with mile high action). I used to walk by on my way to school and try to figure out what one would do with guitars with no bridge pickup. Everybody who knew guitars and guitar stores in NYC would warn you away from buying anything from them (a warning I did not heed, and bought POS Madeira acoustic that fell apart after a couple of years). So my theory is that there are so few Epis in people's hands now because they all got pawned or sold to those shops, and then trashed when the shops ultimately shut down in the early 80s.
John
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Greg Ruggiero, possibly the busiest guitarist on the NY jazz club scene, uses a late '40s Epi archtop (sorry I don't know which model) as his main axe. He's got a De Armond Rhythm King PU on it.
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I really meant the ones that were electric already with the minihumbucker pickups. Etc.
Originally Posted by Gitterbug
I'd like to hear the guy you are referring to though.
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I happen to possess "Epiphone The Complete History" by Walter Carter (Hal Leonard, 1995). Here are some pre-Gibson Epi players: Bob Gibbons, Jimmy Raney, Allen Reuss, Buck Pizzarelli, Al Caiola, Johnny Smith, Joe Pass and Harry Volpe. Some of the names are iconic, others were big in their heyday. Anyway, Epiphone lost the archtop battle years before the 1957 takeover by Gibson. By the way, the takeover was not motivated by getting rid of a competitor, already on its knees, but by Epiphone's upright basses wanted by Gibson's then parent company, CMI.
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In the 1950s, Epiphone fell apart as a company, as a result of squabbling between family members. They imploded well before Gibson bought them out. Epi introduced electric versions of their guitars in 1939, but the war shut that all down. Between the end of the war and the mid-'50s, I think that very few Zephyr-configured guitars were made, especially into the '50s, as a result of all the shouting and yelling, and resulting business dysfunction. The marketplace was there, but the company could not respond to it.
IMO, we tend to focus on the gear, and not on the boardroom battles, production issues and marketplace considerations that profoundly affect the production of guitars, amps and so forth. I think that the reason why many MI companies failed, disappeared or were acquired is more about the personalites and business decisions made than about the gear itself. That applies to all enterprises, but we are focussed on our little obsession here. So it goes.Last edited by Hammertone; 08-27-2020 at 11:33 PM.
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I had an old non cutaway Zephyr with a mini humbucker (probably a c.'58) that I very stupidly traded for an ES-335. I wish I still had it! My Masterbilt Century Deluxe is pretty reminiscent of it, but I wish I had the old Zephyr back.
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Around Boston when I was coming up, Epiphones were very popular with the local pros, partially because they were a less expensive but comparable version of Gibsons. I studied with Bill Leavitt, who had at least 3 Epiphones, including an Emperor with a sound that still stays with me 50 years later, as well as a Deluxe and a Triumph or Broadway. Lots of the older Italian-American pros I got to know treasured their Deluxes. So for a while, at least in Boston, Epiphones were everywhere. Every once in a while I run across a Spartan or some other small-bodied Epi arch top, and they are usually amazing, but beat all to hell.
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Ron, the op was referring to Zephyrs, electric Epi's Originally Posted by ronjazz
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There's just fewer of them out there. By this criteria, they were only made for less than 15 years or so. And many were fitted with ny or epi mini humbuckers which aren't everyone's thing, neither then or now.
And the original epiphone became guild, so that legacy technically lives on. So in a sense, many more people play them than you think. They just say "guild" on them.
For what it's worth, I think old emperors are amongst the most stunning guitars of all time. Even the guild ones are pretty neat, too.
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They're OLD SCHOOL.
Most players can't handle 'em.
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John A you just sent me down 3rd avs or 48th st.I was 24 again and in walking in Manhattan.Checking those very stores out.And getting inspiration for a poem/short story that was forming in my headi called "The city streets of other places and Manhattan"Ill have to try and find it.Lived in Brooklyn Hts from 1976-1980.Sorry about the subject change.I gotta try and find that poem.
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I owned two zephyr deluxe regents, and they were fantastic sounding and playing instruments
however:
They stopped making them in 53
they often suffer from binding rot
the NY pickups are sometimes weak, and vary a lot
Duke Robillard replaced the epi pickups with P90’s and then used it as his main guitar for decades
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Billy Bean playing an Epiphone in Peter Gunn:
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I have a 1953 Epi Century, low-end model, that had a New York pickup in it. It sounded awful. It's much better with a newer pickup.
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Yikes! Originally Posted by sgosnell
What was the sound like besides "awful", haha? Thin?
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As well as I can remember, thin and just not pleasant. But my memory of the details has somewhat faded over the past 40 or so years.
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Those stores were on my route to high school 76-80. Our paths likely crossed. Would love to see the poem. Originally Posted by EarlBrother
John
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Derek Bailey played an Epiphone, on 5th Street.
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