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  1. #1

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    Hi guys,

    I'd like to add a sound to my 'sound library' which has a tiny bit of breakup, a bit like Wes' sound on four on six.
    My two amps are DV Mark LJ and the TMDR (both SS) and pushing them into a bit of breakup with a booster doesn't work for me.

    I'm interested in the Ibanez TS 808 and Fulltone OCD v2. I know a lot of you have the Fulltone. I don't need massive amounts of gain: I'd prefer to be able to have more tweaking space in the lower gain regions. Any advice?

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  3. #2

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    I have both pedals, but can't see them working for a Wes sound. What guitar, pickups and strings are you using? Wes's sound is definitely booster territory (or just more amp gain) and not overdrive.

    If you use these pedals as a booster, the biggest difference is that the 808 is going to really color the sound (in a mid heavy way). I would try an eq pedal first if need be.

  4. #3
    Thanks!
    Maybe the Wes sound isn't the best example. I just like to have a hair of breakup (preferably also responsive to playing dynamics), but when boosting with my EQ the breakup doesn't sound really natural on the LJ.

    My main guitar is an Eastman T64 hollow thinline with P90's, strung with TI swing 012s
    Last edited by Joeontheguitar; 08-25-2020 at 08:28 AM.

  5. #4

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    I played through an original tubescreamer long time ago, for a few weeks. Didn’t do much for me, but then I was looking for blues sounds. I’ve got a Caline Orange Burst overdrive which is warm and sweet, with treble bass volume and gain. Cheap too.


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  6. #5

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    I’ve had both a TS and the original OCD. No comparison. The TS is a very nasally sound compared to the OCD, which can add clean boost, hair, gravel or brimstone without any nasal squonkiness. I haven’t heard the v2, however.

  7. #6

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    TMDR should be able to give you wonderful "on the verge of breakup" sounds. Doesn't it have wattage control in the back for that reason?

    I have two TS's (one hand wired). I think they work well with scooped blackface amps. If it sounds nasal, just turn the bass up. You can also sweep the treble to see where you want to place the scoop as treble and bass controls move around the scoop. But as I said, natural break up of DR is great and it would be closer to Wes's sound if it's modelled right.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    TMDR should be able to give you wonderful "on the verge of breakup" sounds. Doesn't it have wattage control in the back for that reason?

    I have two TS's (one hand wired). I think they work well with scooped blackface amps. If it sounds nasal, just turn the bass up. You can also sweep the treble to see where you want to place the scoop as treble and bass controls move around the scoop. But as I said, natural break up of DR is great and it would be closer to Wes's sound if it's modelled right.
    Yes, I should have said I use the LJ for most of the playing. Or even more correct: for most of the playing in a band. Alone, I use my Waza Air (with which I can dial in any sound I like...so easy)

  9. #8

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    The 808 is an overdrive whereas the OCD is a distortion pedal. While either would achieve your goals once dialed in, IMO, the overdrive is the more "discreet " choice. But I would suggest a higher quality overdrive like the Fulldrive 2.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    The 808 is an overdrive whereas the OCD is a distortion pedal. While either would achieve your goals once dialed in, IMO, the overdrive is the more "discreet " choice. But I would suggest a higher quality overdrive like the Fulldrive 2.
    I have an 808 clone and an OCD. The OCD has a much bigger gain range than the 808, and at the extreme end on the HP setting it's pretty distorted. But I'd still call it OD rather than distortion because the of the way it retains the ability to preserve dynamics and clean up when you lower the guitar volume.

    To the OP, I'd look at something like a SansAmp Blonde/Joyo American Sound or a Boss Deluxe Reverb pedal for what you're talking about. An OD pedal is not really going to do that.

    John
    Last edited by John A.; 08-25-2020 at 10:34 PM.

  11. #10

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    The TS808 uses soft symmetrical clipping
    The OCD uses hard symmetrical clipping

    The SD-1 uses soft asymmetrical clipping (first pedal to do so, almost 40 years ago). The BOSS SD-1 remains among the most natural sounding pedals, still in revision 1, easy to find, inexpensive. For perfectionists, or if you do a lot of studio recording, you may remove the capacitor labeled "C6" from the circuit board (or just cut one leg and leave it in place). All the boutique mods include this because it produces about 80% of these mods' improvements in tone. C6 is the high pass filter for the pedal's tone control circuit; it's removal increases clarity and makes more of the range of the pedal's tone knob usable for good tones.

    Ibanez TS (808) vs Fulltone OCD v2-sd1-jpg

    Tip - whatever pedal you might select, you can remove the knobs, play through it and turn the shafts until you find the sound you want, then place the knobs back on the shafts with their indicators all straight up at 12 o'clock... makes it easy to return to your preferred settings in seconds, especially if you do this to all your pedals, even a pedal board (in the studio or on stage you can literally just ask anyone to "turn everything to 12" and your rig is all dialed in).

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by pauln
    Tip - whatever pedal you might select, you can remove the knobs, play through it and turn the shafts until you find the sound you want, then place the knobs back on the shafts with their indicators all straight up at 12 o'clock... makes it easy to return to your preferred settings in seconds, especially if you do this to all your pedals, even a pedal board (in the studio or on stage you can literally just ask anyone to "turn everything to 12" and your rig is all dialed in).
    Brilliant idea - love this!

  13. #12

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    IMO, the best overdrive for jazzy tones is the j rockett blue note. It's very low drive is extremely natural and doesn't interfere with complex chords. The Rat is also good but very dated sounding at this point.

    And the advantage of J Rockett is that the owner is a reasonable and sane person compared to one of the other pedals in the headline.

  14. #13
    Thanks everybody so far.
    Yes, the Blue Note is also on my short list now, as is the MP Sweet Honey OD. I have the MP Forest Green Compressor and it's a very transparant pedal which I use all the time in the sustain mode (not with a solid body btw).

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    IMO, the best overdrive for jazzy tones is the j rockett blue note. It's very low drive is extremely natural and doesn't interfere with complex chords. The Rat is also good but very dated sounding at this point.

    And the advantage of J Rockett is that the owner is a reasonable and sane person compared to one of the other pedals in the headline.
    Political comments sneak in everywhere these days from the intolerant left . What a sad state of affairs.

  16. #15

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    Lovepedal also makes several great low gain pedals

  17. #16

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    I like Paul Cochrane's Timmy very much. Very transparent low gain OD with excellent low and high tone shaping options.

  18. #17

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    TC Electronics Mojomojo: Very affordable and warm sounding for Kenny Burrell type hairy tone.


    TC Electronic | Product | MOJOMOJO OVERDRIVE

  19. #18

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    Well Jack Z is definitely an authority when icon e's to trying out and recommending gear. I don't always agree with him on certain picks. But he has great advice and he usually is on the money with his recommendations!

    Blue Note is a good choice for sure! If you want a flatter response try a Timmy Pedal or maybe an Xotic Boost pedal Sweet Boost !

  20. #19

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    My problem with the pedals and the ’hair’ is always that they give too much ’hair’. I don’t need hair metal!

    The JHS Morning Glory is very low gain overdrive. I have the V4, it has hot switch too. But usually I get my ’hot’ from afore mentioned Blue Note (the blue one for me), so I use the MG for ’a bit of hair’.

  21. #20

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    actually i tried an 808, with od set very low and tone flat, and it sounded very old school, tweed.. reminded me of old kenny burrell and sounded awesome for jazz... just like a little boost

  22. #21

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    The TS808 has a sweet spot for slight overdrive on the first 5-10 degrees of the dial - beyond that it lives up to its name.
    For a more controlled slight breakup a Klon is perfect, but recent good alternatives are the Wampler Tumnus (less than half the price of a real Klon) and the Lovepedal Hermida Zendrive (at 2/3 the price of a Klon)

  23. #22
    I went for the MP Sweet Honey. Still waiting for it, because it's in backorder.

  24. #23

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    A cheap way of adding some nice mids and a slight breakup to blackface amps is the Soul Food pedal. It's I think the most affordable Klon clone.

  25. #24

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    Try the JHS Crayon or Colourbox V2 for that bit of "hair on the notes".

  26. #25

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    I wouldn’t use either of those pedals. The tubescreamer is going to get you too stuck in the mud and the OCD won’t tame nicely enough. If you are going pedal route try a low gain pedal, an as advertised low gain pedal or a “transparent” overdrive. Many have made great suggestions like the morning glory and blue note. I would add the J Rockett Archer, Emerson Paramount, and Barber Gain Changer. All that being said, if you can get a tube amp and swap the speaker with an early breakup style or tweed, then you’ll nail it. I get beautiful break up tones with my Peerless when played through Fender Blues Deluxe which I swapped the speaker with a WGS g12c/s

  27. #26

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    You can get a Peavey Delta Blues used for about $400. It’ll get you there

  28. #27

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    I've had and used various tube screamers for over thirty years. Try turning the drive down, even to zero, and the level up, all the way. It doesn't get mushy or saturated, it just seems to fatten things up ... as always, depends on your amp, guitar, pickups, the way you play, etc, etc.

  29. #28
    The MP Sweet honey was backordered till somewhere march 2021, so I went with the JHS Morning Glory. Indeed very low gain and transparant. Still experimenting with it, but for now it's on my 3 pedals only nano pedalboard.

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by pauln
    The TS808 uses soft symmetrical clipping
    The OCD uses hard symmetrical clipping

    The SD-1 uses soft asymmetrical clipping (first pedal to do so, almost 40 years ago). The BOSS SD-1 remains among the most natural sounding pedals, still in revision 1, easy to find, inexpensive. For perfectionists, or if you do a lot of studio recording, you may remove the capacitor labeled "C6" from the circuit board (or just cut one leg and leave it in place). All the boutique mods include this because it produces about 80% of these mods' improvements in tone. C6 is the high pass filter for the pedal's tone control circuit; it's removal increases clarity and makes more of the range of the pedal's tone knob usable for good tones.

    Ibanez TS (808) vs Fulltone OCD v2-sd1-jpg

    Tip - whatever pedal you might select, you can remove the knobs, play through it and turn the shafts until you find the sound you want, then place the knobs back on the shafts with their indicators all straight up at 12 o'clock... makes it easy to return to your preferred settings in seconds, especially if you do this to all your pedals, even a pedal board (in the studio or on stage you can literally just ask anyone to "turn everything to 12" and your rig is all dialed in).
    That’s a neat trick!

  31. #30

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    I usually use a clean boost for this kind of thing. I use a cheapy TC Electronic one, but the favourites are the EP and RC Boosters by Xotic and the Vertex Boost.

    I generally use it for solos - push the amp a little harder where clean headroom is less important. But you can turn these units down to unity and they just fatten everything up. It’s quite common for players to leave the thing on for the whole gig.

    However I personally find it helpful to have a boost for soloing. Some people might be happy using the guitar volume, but I find it useful.

  32. #31

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    Also, the TS-9 mini I have sounds good with the gain to unity. In my experience TS pedals can vary in how well they do this. Using a TS as a boost rather than an OD pedal per se is a popular way to use this pedal, and it gives you a useful mid hump with a Fender amp.

    My Princeton can get quite hairy using these tactics (too hairy for clean chords), but not too driven for jazz line playing.

  33. #32

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    I use the TC Spark. It’s a Boost not an OD. Its mid boost setting does wonders for a Strat. Gave up trying to use it for the 175. It kind of “smears” the notes as if the attack is delayed.

  34. #33

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    Help me out here if you can

    Which pedal will get me closest to this kinda thing


    That is .... clean chords , then breakup when I dig in ?
    Through a clean SS amp

    cheers

  35. #34
    Actually most of the pedals that we discussed here, such as the MP Sweet Honey and the JHS MG. They're very responsive to touch, so digging in will get the breakup.

  36. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by pingu
    Help me out here if you can

    Which pedal will get me closest to this kinda thing


    That is .... clean chords , then breakup when I dig in ?
    Through a clean SS amp

    cheers
    Hendrix achieved this by using a Fuzz pedal and turning the volume of guitar down by half.

  37. #36
    Consider another amp before diving into the murky waters of overdrive pedals. Aside from modelers, they are all designed to sound good with a tube amp, and I doubt that you will get any satisfying results unless you start there. Doesn't have to be big or expensive, a 5w champ clone is probably a big step in the right direction.

    Combine this with a Klon-style od. To me, they offer the most dynamic and subtle kind of drive in regards to picking style, with a very useful mid hump. Most people demoing Klons are going for a rock tone, but the circuit is capable of much more than that. Once again, you don't need to spend big money on boutique stuff if you don't want to. I paid about 50 euros on a chinese Klone on ebay, and it works great for my purposes.

  38. #37

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    After tens – or tons – of od & distrtn pedals I have to say that JHS Morning Glory might be the ticket.

    Or the Rockett Blue Note. I have both on my (rocker) pedalboard, MG for mild overdrive and BN for 'a bit more'. 'Much overdrive' comes from both on simultaneously.

    Tube Screamer takes off the bass and OCD compresses too much. Honey Sweet has only the midrange.

    Of course I have played them only with humbuckers and P90s. And with tube amps & SS amp (Quilter).

    Morning Glory does best the Your-own-amp-but-a-bit-distorted -thing.

    And EEMWV (Everybody Else's Mileage WILL Vary)!

  39. #38

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    Thanks all , thats all very useful indeed

    all of the many many youtube demos of these various pedals
    are useless to me as they don't demo the touch sensitivity
    it's all balls-out Rock playing

    To be clear I'm wanting this touch sensitivity irrespective of the amp I'm using
    (Indeed I wanna sometimes go DI into the PA)

    Also I'm skint , so it's got to be a cheap clone I'm afraid

    Ive been using an Harley B American sound DI
    it's good , but not VERY touch sensitive .... as in the double-stops video I posted

    But I've just received a Harley B AC tone
    Which is supposed to be like a vox ac in a pedal
    Class A Voxes are extremely touch sensitive
    so here's hoping ....

    I will test it at home and let you know if it works
    (at quite low volume unfortunately)

    Anyone got one of these or Joyo equivalent ?

  40. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by pingu
    Help me out here if you can

    Which pedal will get me closest to this kinda thing


    That is .... clean chords , then breakup when I dig in ?
    Through a clean SS amp

    cheers
    Please note the pickup's heights. They are all barely above the level of the PG. This helps retain a certain airiness in the tone, which with a dash of reverb/echo lends a nice dimension to the notes. *

    * Also, on my Strats, I reversed the pups so that the shortest polepieces are under the Low E and A. This replicates Jimi's use of rt. handed instruments flipped over and played left-handed. Swiped that from Jerry Donahue, IIRC. Some carving out under the PG is necessary.
    Last edited by citizenk74; 01-27-2021 at 03:41 PM. Reason: clarity

  41. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by pingu
    Help me out here if you can

    Which pedal will get me closest to this kinda thing


    That is .... clean chords , then breakup when I dig in ?
    Through a clean SS amp

    cheers
    Ok. Make sure to disregard the other comments that was made regarding this tone. It has nothing to do with fuzz, and nothing to do with pickup height.
    It has everything to do with how a tube amp is designed. Basically, you run your signal through several different gain stages. At a certain point, the signal will start to compress and eventually distort, but if you're just on the edge of this break up, you can vary the amount of distorsion with your picking dynamic.

    This could theoretically be achieved by stacking several od pedals on a low gain setting, making them boost each other. I use one or two pedals together with the dirt channel of a D-style tube amp. However, I would say that the simplest way if using an SS amp is to get a modeler that emulates a tweed deluxe on the verge of breaking up.

  42. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northenlights
    Ok. Make sure to disregard the other comments that was made regarding this tone. It has nothing to do with fuzz, and nothing to do with pickup height.
    It has everything to do with how a tube amp is designed. Basically, you run your signal through several different gain stages. At a certain point, the signal will start to compress and eventually distort, but if you're just on the edge of this break up, you can vary the amount of distorsion with your picking dynamic.

    This could theoretically be achieved by stacking several od pedals on a low gain setting, making them boost each other. I use one or two pedals together with the dirt channel of a D-style tube amp. However, I would say that the simplest way if using an SS amp is to get a modeler that emulates a tweed deluxe on the verge of breaking up.
    thanks NL
    yes exactly !
    you are bang on with regards to my question !

    (ie. I'm not at all asking about the strats tone etc
    which admittedly IS totally gorgeous)

    Anyway ....
    the modeller design would have to mimic the behaviour of the amp
    with various different levels of input in very great detail ....
    to get this touch sensitivity right , I would expect
    that sounds VERY expensive

    Or is there a cheap modeller that can do this ?

  43. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by pingu
    thanks NL
    yes exactly !
    you are bang on with regards to my question !

    (ie. I'm not at all asking about the strats tone etc
    which admittedly IS totally gorgeous)

    Anyway ....
    the modeller design would have to mimic the behaviour of the amp
    with various different levels of input in very great detail ....
    to get this touch sensitivity right , I would expect
    that sounds VERY expensive

    Or is there a cheap modeller that can do this ?
    You can achieve the touch sensitivity of the Strat in that video with 99.9 % of the pedals out there. Even the cheapest 20 dollar OD pedals would give you that. Most distortion or fuzz pedals will give you that too.

    Pretty much all OD pedals excel at clean to light hair. They mostly vary in their inherent EQ. The challenge in OD pedal design is to have them sound good at high gain tones.

    For single coils, I like tc electronic mojomojo. It's cheap, it fattens the tone. It's very good in low drive settings. Sounds a bit artificial if the gain is high and it doesn't even have very high gain. Well it's a cheap pedal. But for touch sensitive low gain, it's great. But then so as other pedals.

  44. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    You can achieve the touch sensitivity of the Strat in that video with 99.9 % of the pedals out there. Even the cheapest 20 dollar OD pedals would give you that. Most distortion or fuzz pedals will give you that too.

    Pretty much all OD pedals excel at clean to light hair. They mostly vary in their inherent EQ. The challenge in OD pedal design is to have them sound good at high gain tones.

    For single coils, I like tc electronic mojomojo. It's cheap, it fattens the tone. It's very good in low drive settings. Sounds a bit artificial if the gain is high and it doesn't even have very high gain. Well it's a cheap pedal. But for touch sensitive low gain, it's great. But then so as other pedals.
    Thats great news , thanks Tal
    my basic sound is big strings and humbuckers
    so I don't need to fatten the tone up

    if the AC truetone doesn't work out ....

    I might go crazy and spring £27 for a Harley B ultimate drive
    (an Fulltone OCD type clone)
    I did like the overdriven rock sounds on the YouTube demos

    however that sound won't get much use
    cos don't play rock very much .... Hurrah

    But if I can just get the touch sensitivity thing going on
    It will be very cool

    thanks everyone

  45. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northenlights
    Ok. It has nothing to do with fuzz
    Hendrix literally achieved this signature tone using fuzz and rolling off guitar volume.

  46. #45

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    I’ve got a Caline Orange Burst. Should be a candidate. What bothers me is every overdrive is so very noisy - and it seems digital more than analogue.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  47. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Triple_Jazz
    Hendrix literally achieved this signature tone using fuzz and rolling off guitar volume.
    His tone on songs like Fire, yes, but not his clean tone in Little Wing or Wind Cries Mary. And the poster never actually asked about Hendrix's tone specifically, but about the tone of a youtuber that demonstrate some Hendrix licks.

  48. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northenlights;[URL="tel:1094729"
    1094729[/URL]]His tone on songs like Fire, yes, but not his clean tone in Little Wing or Wind Cries Mary. And the poster never actually asked about Hendrix's tone specifically, but about the tone of a youtuber that demonstrate some Hendrix licks.
    yes

    I’m not bothered about the tone
    (it could be with any guitar or style of
    playing etc)

    I just want the touch sensitivity exhibited
    on that video
    ie
    when I play gently ..... it’s clean
    when I dig in ..... its got some distortion

    all that without touching the knobs

  49. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by pingu
    yes

    I’m not bothered about the tone
    (it could be with any guitar or style of
    playing etc)

    I just want the touch sensitivity exhibited
    on that video
    ie
    when I play gently ..... it’s clean
    when I dig in ..... its got some distortion

    all that without touching the knobs
    $50ish.

    TC Electronic MojoMojo Overdrive Overview



    Truly dynamic drive. The TC Electronic MojoMojo Overdrive enhances your playing and sculpts your tone. With a very open character and little to no compression, the drive allows even your most subtle playing to shine through. The touch sensitive dynamic response also means the MojoMojo directly responds to how you play giving it an intuitive edge. The clipping is symmetrical so there's no harsh overtones here, only smooth, musical drive elevating your tone every time it's engaged.


  50. #49

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    Tubescreamer types never work for me. Most circuits like that are mid heavy, seem to drop bass, color the sound. What does work is good clean boost. Best I've found: Paul Cochrane's TIM (best of all), Timmy, also the one knob vertex boost. I use the Vertex boost on a small board into solid state amps, with P90 archtops, for jazz practice. It works very well, just a little extra push.

  51. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by mad dog
    Tubescreamer types never work for me. Most circuits like that are mid heavy, seem to drop bass, color the sound. What does work is good clean boost. Best I've found: Paul Cochrane's TIM (best of all), Timmy, also the one knob vertex boost. I use the Vertex boost on a small board into solid state amps, with P90 archtops, for jazz practice. It works very well, just a little extra push.
    Yeah, that's ts-pedals for you. Made to cut through in a loud band setting, maybe not so much for pure jazz. Great for blues though.
    I also like Vertex stuff! Never had the boost, but I really like what the SSS does to my tone! Just don't tell the people at TGP, or you'll never hear the end of it