sound hollowbody vs solid body.

[Marcel_A]

I'm just wondering about a few observations about my hollow body.

I played guitar pretty much my whole life, of which solid body's pretty much all the time. Since a few months i play an ibanez hollowbody and i start noticing some things.

- the pick i use makes a huge difference. I can't remember that is was that big a deal when i played solid body guitars.
- when i played solid body guitars the amp made the guitar. Different amp, different sound. The guitar did't have much caracter by itself. It seems that the ibanez i own right now is different: i hear its caracter through every amp i play it.

There is not really a question besides 'do you recognize any of this'? Or is it just that i start listening better?

[rpjazzguitar]

Very hard to put into words.

A well played archtop, on chords, has a kind of resonance that I don't hear from solid bodies. It's subtle, but I think it's a sound that a solid body just can't produce.

For single note soloing, I hear less difference. And, sometimes, archtops can sound harsh on single notes in the upper register. Well, solid bodies too, but maybe less likely?

I don't know about "character". The main thing I hear is what I'm calling "resonance".

As far as the way different amps effect it, one thought that occurs to me is that it may have to do with feedback. Not full blown howl, but a milder reinforcement of the lower frequencies. That might vary quite a bit depending on which amp and how you're using it, meaning the amp's frequency profile after EQ, position, etc. One way to check this would be to move around the room while using a long cable to the amp. If the guitar sounds different in different positions and different angles to the amp (e.g. pointing the headstock straight at the speaker might reduce feedback), then it may have something to do with feedback.

[mad dog]

Less sustain with hollowbodies. But the notes seem able to expand, take up a different kind of space from solidbody sounds. And the sound is "airy", for lack of a better way to say it. I can hear it but words aren't really up to clearly saying what that sound is.

[citizenk74]

My thinking is that while hollowbodies have less sustain, their decay envelope is more complex, hence more intriguing to the ear. Or it could be my imagination. Perhaps I just play more interesting notes on my archtops.

[Alter]

For me hollowbodies have this portion of an acoustic tone, that gives them a bigger, fuller presence, making notes carry more "weight".

Another big difference with electrics is their optimal volume level. To my ears, hollobodies sound and play best at the level where you can mix their acoustic and their electric sound, so pretty low. Where electrics to me sound uninspiring at low volume levels, and really need gig/rehearsal levels to do their thing.

[Eck]

I think the bridge plays a role. My guitar was set up by a heavy rock person. Now I just raised the stop tail so the strings go almost straight over the tune o matic and it seems to a natural tremolo which makes it -I think-more jazz-pleasant.


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[Tal_175]

Hollow body vs solid body is like tube amp vs PA. Hollow bodies have a bit delayed and softer attack (natural sag), more rolled off highs (warm), fatter tone due to the more complex overtone content (also a side effect of amp saturation). These are all properties of natural acoustic phenomena.

Due to the limited resonance and bridge construction that limits interaction between the strings and the body, solids have a more immediate, sharp attack and sustain but by themselves they have a more stringy, bland timbre. That's why people tend to prefer using effects, sweetening boosts and tone coloring tube amps with solid bodies. To bring back some of the organic complexity. On the other hand hollow bodies can sound good enough with more hi fi acoustic amps.

[Campos]

[kris]

I feel more comfortable with real hollow - body guitar playing jazz.
...but I like to experiment with solid body guitars...;-)
Best
Kris

[Jim Soloway]

I feel more comfortable with real hollow - body guitar playing jazz.
...but I like to experiment with solid body guitars...;-)
Best
Kris

I've always loved the sound you've gotten from your Tele's.

Playing solids is different than playing archtops, not better or worse, just different. You have to put a lot more emphasis on control with a solid body but it also eliminates the issue of feedback at reasonable volume levels. You lose the blend of strings and amp that you get with an archtop at low volume so the amp becomes a bigger part of the experience but I've always thought I was able to play more expressively with a solid body.

[John A.]

Hollow body vs solid body is like tube amp vs PA. Hollow bodies have a bit delayed and softer attack (natural sag), more rolled off highs (warm), fatter tone due to the more complex overtone content (also a side effect of amp saturation). These are all properties of natural acoustic phenomena.

Due to the limited resonance and bridge construction that limits interaction between the strings and the body, solids have a more immediate, sharp attack and sustain but by themselves they have a more stringy, bland timbre. That's why people tend to prefer using effects, sweetening boosts and tone coloring tube amps with solid bodies. To bring back some of the organic complexity. On the other hand hollow bodies can sound good enough with more hi fi acoustic amps.

I have 180-degree opposite perception. Hollow bodies strike me as having a more pronounced and percussive attack than solid bodies, though I agree that solid bodies generally sustain more. I don't think the timbral differences you perceive have much to do with why people do or don't use effects. I think that's a function of genre, and of the reality that solidbodies feed back less. Hence the phenomenon is "people who want to use effects use solidbodies (or semi-hollows)" not "people who use solid bodies use effects to make up the deficits of solid body timbre."

John

[Tal_175]

I have 180-degree opposite perception. Hollow bodies strike me as having a more pronounced and percussive attack than solid bodies, though I agree that solid bodies generally sustain more. I don't think the timbral differences you perceive have much to do with why people do or don't use effects. I think that's a function of genre, and of the reality that solidbodies feed back less. Hence the phenomenon is "people who want to use effects use solidbodies (or semi-hollows)" not "people who use solid bodies use effects to make up the deficits of solid body timbre."

John

Hm. I certainly hear a more immediate response from solid bodies than hollows. I perceive this aspect of solids as having a sharper (twangier if you will) attack.

I admit it's a bit speculative to say that the timbre differences is why solid body users are more likely to use effects. I do not think of this as a very conscious choice. It's more like, at least in my experience, the dry sounds of solids are less rich and complex than the dry sounds of archtops. So I'd be more tempted to add spice and salt to the sounds of solid bodies than archtops.

[Cunamara]

I think the one generalization that can be drawn about the differences between solid and hollow body instruments is that there are relatively few generalities that can be consistently drawn.

[John A.]

Hm. I certainly hear a more immediate response from solid bodies than hollows. I perceive this aspect of solids as having a sharper (twangier if you will) attack.

I admit it's a bit speculative to say that the timbre differences is why solid body users are more likely to use effects. I do not think of this as a very conscious choice. It's more like, at least in my experience, the dry sounds of solids are less rich and complex than the dry sounds of archtops. So I'd be more tempted to add spice and salt to the sounds of solid bodies than archtops.

I think it's very hard to describe sounds and I think that's a fundamental limit on this sort of conversation. One man's immediate it is another man's soft, and neither has an oscilloscope to correlate words with measurements. As to the timbre/effects question, I can speak from my own experience. I don't regard solidbody timbres as somehow deficient. I use effects with my solid body and semi hollow when I play music that calls for it. I like those instruments' timbres without effects just fine, too. Different from my hollow body, but not worse or bland. Just different. Most of the players I know who play more than one style of music on more than one style of guitar think the same way (this is something I have had conversations about in real life). I don't use overdrive on my hollow because of the feedback.

John

[Tal_175]

I think it's very hard to describe sounds and I think that's a fundamental limit on this sort of conversation. One man's immediate it is another man's soft, and neither has an oscilloscope to correlate words with measurements. As to the timbre/effects question, I can speak from my own experience. I don't regard solidbody timbres as somehow deficient. I use effects with my solid body and semi hollow when I play music that calls for it. I like those instruments' timbres without effects just fine, too. Different from my hollow body, but not worse or bland. Just different. Most of the players I know who play more than one style of music on more than one style of guitar think the same way (this is something I have had conversations about in real life). I don't use overdrive on my hollow because of the feedback.

John

I agree with everything you said. I overstated my point when I said that solid bodies sound bland. I do like solid body guitars direct into a nice clean amp. Nothing deficient about that sound. I was trying to make a more "magnified" distinction.

The difference can be best heard if both types of guitars are plugged into a flat, PA type amp with PA type speakers. An archtop even with magnetic pickups can still give a very satisfying sound in that set up. But most people would find a solid body not ideal for that kind of application. Guitar amps and speakers roll off the highs, either scoop or add more character to mid frequencies, add some subtle elastic, interactive feel. Archtops do not seem to need such "enhancements" as much as solid bodies.

[MikeJ]

Its not just the sounds to me..

I just like the feel of the Archtop. I struggle to play a solid body i just cant get the same level of expressive playing going.

I enjoy the acoustic feedback of my 65 Gibson Johnny Smith and the feel of the back vibrating as I play, its a far more intimate experience than I can get with any solid body. Playing a solid body seems so much more mechanical and unnatural.

Perhaps I'm just a sentimental old fart.

[rpjazzguitar]

With some, but not all, archtops (and it may depend on the player) I hear a woody richness that I don't usually hear from solid bodies.
More on chords than single notes.

I know I've heard that on 25.5 inch scale archtops, but I'm less certain that I've heard it from 24 3/4. For me, it's Wes or Kenny Burrell vs. Joe Pass. No disrespect to Joe, a Master, but I never coveted his tone.

That said, I don't play an archtop. Here's why, not that anybody asked. I can't stand feedback and I couldn't tame it to my satisfaction. I know others have. More important, I need thick, sustained high notes and some sustain on lower notes. Archtops were not developed for sustain. The result is, I can execute my ideas, with my sound using a solidbody but not an archtop.

If I were playing chords only, I'm still not certain I'd play an archtop. I'd also think about nylon, which sounds great to me for comping.
Listen to great players like Romero Lubambo or Chico Pinheiro playing jazz styles on nylon.

[JaxJaxon]

One thing I can say about Hollow Body Arch Tops is that they come in a big Variety of shapes and styles from alot of different Makers and because of that you will get a wide range of Tone, Attack, Decay, Sustain. Some you wont here a big difference while others you can. And thats just the Body and Neck. Now lets talk Pickups. Overwound/Hot pickup dont work so well in them a more balanced magnet with the coils wound on a lower output works best the reason is the underwound pick up will get the sound wave lengths moving thru the top and then have more of effect on the coils almost as much as the string. Hotter pickups will have more influence thru its poles. I also get more variation moveing where I pick at, brighter at the bridge, lower and mello up around the 16th fret, with any spot I play on a Arch Top jazz box giving me different tone and timbre. I cant get as much out of a solid body. But the solid body has a different use in its self, Like if you like hot humbuckers thru a Marshal amp. Its hard to get that sound with an Arch Top, unless you use serious pedals and other gear.

[John A.]

The difference can be best heard if both types of guitars are plugged into a flat, PA type amp with PA type speakers. An archtop even with magnetic pickups can still give a very satisfying sound in that set up. But most people would find a solid body not ideal for that kind of application. Guitar amps and speakers roll off the highs, either scoop or add more character to mid frequencies, add some subtle elastic, interactive feel. Archtops do not seem to need such "enhancements" as much as solid bodies.

Not in my experience and with my tone preferences. I don't like PA's, acoustic amps, PA style amps, etc. for any form of electric guitar and don't find them less unsatisfying with my archtop (though every once in a while I run into one that sounds OK). FWIW, my semi-hollow is my surest bet for a usable tone through any form of amplification. If I don't know what I'll be playing through, that's what I bring.

John

[patshep]

solidbodies to me are more focused, direct, they react instantly, with hollowbodies, the notes bloom and have more air
these are just my words, but i like them... that's how it feels to me

[pauln]

Solid bodies approach good Jazz tone by lowering the pickup all the way down, setting the amp mid range maxed with treble and bass all the way down, using the -6dB input, using a medium pick (about .7-.8mm), a loose grip, playing gently, and playing dead clean with no more than a subliminal ambient reverb (less than "2"). Playing a solid body like this is a deliberate tone approach in absolute complete opposition to everything one learns and strives for in Rock, Country, Blues, R&B, and Pop. One has to know or discover how to do it, then take the time and effort to learn how to make it actually happen, and then develop, cultivate, and internalize it (just like everything else!).

Guitarists playing Jazz boxes who casually experiment trying a solid body are likely going to transfer too much energy playing hard and using thick picks held firmly as they are used to with Jazz boxes in order to drive the energy sufficient to get good Jazz tone from the box. Using this approach with a solid body won't sound much like Jazz, and if the guitar and amp are not specially set up and prepared... probably not even close.

[mr quick]

Reading all the responses here sure is interesting, especially the consensus that a solidbody sustains longer than a hollowbody. I am not sure why, but I've always felt the opposite effect - not that I am challenging the probably-sound science behind it, but just that I've never actually -felt- that. I had an SG until recently which was my go-to bebop guitar, because it was nothing but snappy mids. I didn't like it for solo guitar, because I thought it didn't sustain as well as my ES. The guitar I have which I get the most sustain on, is the old Ibanez AF 75 I got in high school, which was in fact my very first guitar (I had many before, but they were my dad's).

I think I've made the same point a thousand times, but the most critical part of any guitar is how it feels for you to play it. I sound best on a Gibson ES or similar. My mate sounds best on a Strat. IMO there are few objective truths about guitars and how they sound. Maybe your Ibanez is inspiring you to play and listen differently?

[Eck]

Do you compare using the same strings? That’s probably 90% or more of the sound. Then as far as I know underwound pickups sound jazzier, there is another very big part and why Telecasters (or SRV’s Strat on Riviera Paradise) can sound jazzy. One thing I suspect is the impossibility of rolling back bass on the guitar may be influencing the sustain. I bought my les Paul junior DC with P90s because of its warm yet light sound. Now with Kent Armstrong Stealths I either don’t get the warmth from it or it’s the amp or it’s what I’m playing or it’s my perception. Saving for a semi-hollow....


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[pauln]

Sounds to me as a scooped sound = jazz sound in your ears?

I don't know why you might thing that. Scooped means attenuating the mid range relative to the bass and treble; I suggested the opposite - maximum mid range and minimum bass and treble. The extreme settings are necessary on a Fender tone stack because the circuit is quite scooped if you set all the tones to their half way settings.
Bass -> 1, Middle -> 8, Treble -> 1 is closest to flat, moving Middle up to 10 is just right, does a lot of nice things to the tone for Jazz.

[Marcel_A]

Reading all the responses here sure is interesting, especially the consensus that a solidbody sustains longer than a hollowbody. I am not sure why, but I've always felt the opposite effect -

i was surprised by this aswell. my perception of a hollowbody is that is has a good amount of sustain. i can't compare it right now, but i can't remember my PRS SE sustained that well.