1. #1

    User Info Menu

    This is two versions of a single 30 second clip that I recorded direct. I'm adding the Boogex amp sim plug-in after the fact. The first version is with the default speaker sim. The second version is with a 3rd party IR. I tried doing them with all of the settings the same but the IR was way too bright. I was told to change the settings to get get rid of some of the added brightness. That seemed to take away the apples to apples convenience of the comparison but I think it did improve the results. I'd really appreciate some feedback. It's really easy to get lost in this stuff.


  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

    User Info Menu

    Lower mids sounded better on the IR take. Caveat: listening through my phone speakers. I think I’ve rarely used an IR that didn’t require some measure of high and/or low EQ cuts to sound natural. In my experience, after buying a bunch of IR packages that have dozens or hundreds of mic types and positions to choose from, most IRs are phasey or boomy messes that need to be massaged with EQ to get the most mileage.

    You might consider amp sim software S-Gear. In addition to having just a few really good amp emulations, as opposed to the dozens or more you get with Helix, etc., they provide a reasonable amount of IRs that allow you visually choose a mic and position it (instead of wading through a list of hundreds of files, which is just so stupidly overwhelming). Highly recommended.

  4. #3

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by wzpgsr
    Lower mids sounded better on the IR take. Caveat: listening through my phone speakers. I think I’ve rarely used an IR that didn’t require some measure of high and/or low EQ cuts to sound natural. In my experience, after buying a bunch of IR packages that have dozens or hundreds of mic types and positions to choose from, most IRs are phasey or boomy messes that need to be massaged with EQ to get the most mileage.

    You might consider amp sim software S-Gear. In addition to having just a few really good amp emulations, as opposed to the dozens or more you get with Helix, etc., they provide a reasonable amount of IRs that allow you visually choose a mic and position it (instead of wading through a list of hundreds of files, which is just so stupidly overwhelming). Highly recommended.
    Thanks. I'm starting to get that this stuff is not at all plug and play. That really ups the complexity of the process geometrically. If you have to eq each IR individually then you lose the ability to isolate the effect of the IR itself. That makes the process of comparing multiple IR's almost impossible.

  5. #4

    User Info Menu

    To me, the first one sounds more FR/FR and the second one sounds more like a guitar amp/speaker (i.e., more mid content, less treble and bass content a little more compression and grit). But it's hard to say which is better or worse. I think the second would probably sit better in a mix with with other instruments, especially single-line playing, but that's not really what you do. The first sounds more like the sorts of sounds you've posted before as examples of what you're going for to me. [Listening on decent earbuds from my computer FWIW].

    John

  6. #5

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
    ... If you have to eq each IR individually then you lose the ability to isolate the effect of the IR itself. That makes the process of comparing multiple IR's almost impossible.
    I think I disagree. If you want to compare two things in and of themselves, you have to impose some standards on the comparison; otherwise, as you suggest, the comparison is not valid. So you could compare IRs given that the amp sim brand, model, and settings are thus and such. Then you could conclude that this IR is too bright, that one sounds too anechoic, and so on.

    But I don't think this is really what you're trying to compare. I don't think you are really very interested in "the effect of the IR itself", except as pure curiosity and a perhaps vain hope that you could find a suitable IR based on its specifications. What I think you're looking for is to find a sound of an amp sim plus IR that you find pleasing. That is, what you're looking for a comparative evaluation of whether a particular IR in combination with your chosen amp sim is suitable to your purpose or not. So, maybe, the comparisons should be along the lines of:
    • can I adjust the IR, along with adjustments to the amp sim I'm using, to produce what is to me a pleasing sound?
    • how hard is it for me to produce a usable (i.e., p;easing) result with this amp/IR combination?
    • how expensive is a particular IR?

    Perhaps something in this direction would result in the kind of comparison you're looking for. It's a polyfactor comparison, since what I think you're looking for is a certain output sound, which is not at all the same as the comparative sounds of multiple IRs in isolation.

    A technique that has worked for me in the past when making complicated comparisons is a six-point comparison scale, like this:
    • 5 points = fully satisfactory
    • 4 points = better than 3 points but not as good as 5 points
    • 3 points = somewhat satisfactory, but not the best
    • 2 points = better than 1 point but not as good as 3 points
    • 1 point = undesirable for the goal I'm trying to achieve
    • 0 points = entirely unsatisfactory

    This can even be used if the comparisons are somewhat or entirely subjective.

    But maybe this is too much of an engineering approach.

  7. #6

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by dconeill
    I think I disagree. If you want to compare two things in and of themselves, you have to impose some standards on the comparison; otherwise, as you suggest, the comparison is not valid. So you could compare IRs given that the amp sim brand, model, and settings are thus and such. Then you could conclude that this IR is too bright, that one sounds too anechoic, and so on.

    But I don't think this is really what you're trying to compare. I don't think you are really very interested in "the effect of the IR itself", except as pure curiosity and a perhaps vain hope that you could find a suitable IR based on its specifications. What I think you're looking for is to find a sound of an amp sim plus IR that you find pleasing. That is, what you're looking for a comparative evaluation of whether a particular IR in combination with your chosen amp sim is suitable to your purpose or not. So, maybe, the comparisons should be along the lines of:
    • can I adjust the IR, along with adjustments to the amp sim I'm using, to produce what is to me a pleasing sound?
    • how hard is it for me to produce a usable (i.e., p;easing) result with this amp/IR combination?
    • how expensive is a particular IR?

    Perhaps something in this direction would result in the kind of comparison you're looking for. It's a polyfactor comparison, since what I think you're looking for is a certain output sound, which is not at all the same as the comparative sounds of multiple IRs in isolation.

    A technique that has worked for me in the past when making complicated comparisons is a six-point comparison scale, like this:
    • 5 points = fully satisfactory
    • 4 points = better than 3 points but not as good as 5 points
    • 3 points = somewhat satisfactory, but not the best
    • 2 points = better than 1 point but not as good as 3 points
    • 1 point = undesirable for the goal I'm trying to achieve
    • 0 points = entirely unsatisfactory

    This can even be used if the comparisons are somewhat or entirely subjective.

    But maybe this is too much of an engineering approach.
    It does make sense but given how many IR's there are to choose from, it opens up the possibiities of both a lot of work and a significant expense. I'm not sure the the return is worth the effort.

  8. #7

    User Info Menu

    They are different enough that it couldn’t hurt to try mixing them.