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  1. #1

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    ...Knowing it'd almost always be banging around only at home, is there a no-brainer / best bang for the buck choice ?
    I can see a Fishman or Barbera bridge model, and I am pretty sure my luthier has done Fishmans, but just wondering if there's a least headache / best reasonable sound choice ? I wouldn't mind a clip-on mic at all, but it'd just have to be pretty much clip-and-play out of the box.
    It'd be for my '52 L-7 C. fwiw.

    Thx for any and all suggestions.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    I would go here for what I would put at the top of bang for buck. I love the vintage DeArmonds, but these are pretty good.


    Guild DeArmond Rhythm Chief 1000 Pickup - Nickel | Guild Guitars

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
    I would go here for what I would put at the top of bang for buck. I love the vintage DeArmonds, but these are pretty good. ...
    I mounted a reissue 1100 on a Gibson L-7 and am quite happy with it. The magnets and coils are quite different between the two models. I haven’t had an opportunity to play both, but I believe they have somewhat different voices. I wanted adjustable pole pieces to be certain I could get string-to-string balance with a variety of string gauges and materials. Unfortunately the price has gone way up from when these were first released. They were $130 in 2015, $190 in 2020! I found one at a local store that still had old stock marked at the original price, so if you decide on a reissue DeArmond try calling around for prices.
    Guild DeArmond Rhythm Chief 1100 Pickup - Gold | Guild Guitars

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
    I would go here for what I would put at the top of bang for buck. I love the vintage DeArmonds, but these are pretty good.


    Guild DeArmond Rhythm Chief 1000 Pickup - Nickel | Guild Guitars
    That's what I have on my Harmony archie. Very minimal modification--just 2 tiny holes for the rod, then a replacement endpin for a 1/8" jack.

    Vintage Jack | K&K Sound

  6. #5

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    I tried all kinds of pickups for acoustic archtops and found something I didn't like with all of them. I finally settled on mounting a DeArmond Rhythm Chief 1000 on my Godin 5th Avenue. When I had an Epiphone Zenith, I used a detachable vintage DeArmond Guitar Mic when I wanted to plug in. The DeArmonds sound a little electric--which isn't all bad for jazz--but at least they picked up 80/20 bronze acoustic strings just fine and I could use the guitars as acoustics most of the time.

  7. #6

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    I would like to recommend the dpa 4099 but the cost of it might be over the top for some. Thomann has a the t.bone Ovid 100CC which is 10% the cost of the dpa 4099.

    The dpa 4099G requires a gooseneck extension to make it position where you want it. I am not sure if there is one for the t.bone Ovid 100CC. I am sure Amazon has the t.bone under different labels.

    Morten Farestrand has a good demo of the t.bone on Youtube. I think it is amazing value for money. Use the other 90% saved on a Grace Alix or SunnAudio acoustic preamp.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
    I would like to recommend the dpa 4099 but the cost of it might be over the top for some. Thomann has a the t.bone Ovid 100CC which is 10% the cost of the dpa 4099.

    The dpa 4099G requires a gooseneck extension to make it position where you want it. I am not sure if there is one for the t.bone Ovid 100CC. I am sure Amazon has the t.bone under different labels.

    Morten Farestrand has a good demo of the t.bone on Youtube. I think it is amazing value for money. Use the other 90% saved on a Grace Alix or SunnAudio acoustic preamp.
    This version of the Ovid comes with a gooseneck and a clamp that goes on the body of the guitar.


    the t.bone Ovid System Guitar Bundle – Thomann United States

  9. #8

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    Dennis the Barbara that I heard gave me the impression, -- that is all you would ever need. And you can still pre-amp it.
    They are not cheap. But to me they are a cut above.
    JD

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Max405
    Dennis the Barbara that I heard gave me the impression, -- that is all you would ever need. And you can still pre-amp it.
    They are not cheap. But to me they are a cut above.
    JD

    Thx Joe

    I already have sent the dimensions to Rich Barbera, but I can see where not being closer may be a disadvantage. That way I could drop it off. Or I was thinking worst case I could just mail him the bridge saddle.
    Either way, of course I trust your ear !!

    Dennis

  11. #10

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    This is the extension that Maestro Paco Peña demonstrates.

  12. #11

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    Aha this one again!

    my answer currently is - neither.

    get the Krivo micro Manouche which is the most acoustic sounding magnetic pickup I’ve used, fits on any archtop, and sits on the top of the guitar allowing it to pickup the resonance of the instrument. Also you are free to fit or remove it whenever you want.

    here is what it sounds like di with no funny stuff


    it sounds great for rhythm too

  13. #12

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    Some just mic it, and that’s the best option where available if you want a real acoustic tone. But rooms and engineers vary... also, drums.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis D
    Thx Joe

    I already have sent the dimensions to Rich Barbera, but I can see where not being closer may be a disadvantage. That way I could drop it off. Or I was thinking worst case I could just mail him the bridge saddle.
    Either way, of course I trust your ear !!

    Dennis
    Hi Dennis,
    If I remember correctly, Rich is very particular on how the pickup should be built into the saddle. He uses a local guy here in NJ who will build it into a saddle. Logically, I think all you would have to do it is give him the dimensions, just like you did. String spacing, post spacing, Saddle height. I wouldnt send him the guitar. It will just sit on a shelf for weeks. That's why I didn't buy one. The guy who builds them into the bridge was kind of inflexible. Rich on the other hand, is a really nice guy.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Max405
    Hi Dennis,
    If I remember correctly, Rich is very particular on how the pickup should be built into the saddle. He uses a local guy here in NJ who will build it into a saddle. Logically, I think all you would have to do it is give him the dimensions, just like you did. String spacing, post spacing, Saddle height. I wouldnt send him the guitar. It will just sit on a shelf for weeks. That's why I didn't buy one. The guy who builds them into the bridge was kind of inflexible. Rich on the other hand, is a really nice guy.

    Joe, I couldn't take the dimensions he needed because I don't know how to use a caliper. So had to I get my neighbor to take the measurements, which we did, and which I sent to him. We were able to get accurate to thousandths, which to me seems pretty needless.
    I meant maybe just sending Rich the bridge saddle.
    But I see those replacement rosewood and ivory bridges for sale all the time on AllParts and Stewmac etc, and they're available worldwide, made to fit and they do. So I really wonder why someone would expect dimensions that accurate when Gibson and 99.9% of most other footed bridge saddles are identical.
    Haven't heard back yet.

    Thx.

  16. #15

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    I also want to recommend the beforementioned tbone Ovid DPA clone. Been using mine for several years and I'm totally satisfied.

    This is a short except from a CD i produced with my Band. Solo guitar is my eastman mic'ed with the Ovid straight into the interface without any effects. I can live with that tone.


    Paul

  17. #16

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    One thing to be wary of using clip on mics--they do feedback easily. If you have the luxury of always playing in a nice, quiet hall with sound checks, or for recording, they're probably great. For gigs like restaurants, bars, and wineries with crowd noise and expectations of set up and play, they unacceptably howl like banshees.

  18. #17

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    Guessing you want a pure acoustic tone so regular electric pickups are not what you're looking for. Also guessing you have something to amplify it with that will handle acoustic tone. Acoustic instruments don't sound that great when limited by the frequency spectrum of a regular guitar amp. That and while I don't have one seems I recall that with a DPA 4099 you'll be wanting something that provides phantom power.

    So.. sure. Mic's are great. They're a hassle and finicky and if it's just for home you could just keep a decent small condenser on a boom set up somewhere. But lots of folks like the DPA 4099 and I think I'll look into the alternative mentioned because.. why not. It's gear.

    Still.. if it were me and using current tech a mic alternative would be to go with the Fishman piezo bridge, which doesn't sound all that great by itself, then run it through an Audio Sprockets ToneDexter to retrieve the acoustic tone. This is a common setup on flat tops and has a very good reputation for recreating the sound of your guitar. The ToneDexter isn't a bad preamp overall either with direct outs, low cut, and basic EQ.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chazmo
    One thing to be wary of using clip on mics--they do feedback easily. If you have the luxury of always playing in a nice, quiet hall with sound checks, or for recording, they're probably great. For gigs like restaurants, bars, and wineries with crowd noise and expectations of set up and play, they unacceptably howl like banshees.

    It'd never see a gig - it's just be me playing at home.....I'd hope for something easy...So maybe that t.bone Ovid is what I may try......it'll either get me into or out of amplifying this guitar.....

    Thanks.

  20. #19

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    I also like the DeArmond 1100 Rhythm Chief. It doesn't really sound acoustic, but it does sound really good to me. You can use BluTack to mount it to the guitar top, easily removable if you want. You can put thumbwheel controls under the pickguard or inside the f hole. For an output jack you can put it under the pickguard or use an endpin jack. Whit Smith uses that setup, or did. On his recent videos he has removed the pickup, but you can still see traces of BluTack that he didn't bother to clean up.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis D
    ...Knowing it'd almost always be banging around only at home, is there a no-brainer / best bang for the buck choice ?
    I can see a Fishman or Barbera bridge model, and I am pretty sure my luthier has done Fishmans, but just wondering if there's a least headache / best reasonable sound choice ? I wouldn't mind a clip-on mic at all, but it'd just have to be pretty much clip-and-play out of the box.
    It'd be for my '52 L-7 C. fwiw.

    Thx for any and all suggestions.
    Before I join the chorus of people suggesting something like a DPA4099... the real question is... why? What are you looking to achieve?
    If you want to play "electric guitar" through an amp - yeah, floater is the way to go. Reissue Dearmonds are cheap and easy, and sound more or less like the originals. Boom.

    But if you want "acoustic guitar but louder"... well I still wonder, "Why?". Are you looking to play outdoors and have the sound carry a bit more?

  22. #21

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    If I'm playing at home and I need the acoustic sound louder I simply turn up my hearing aids...

    one advantage of being an old fart..

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by campusfive
    Before I join the chorus of people suggesting something like a DPA4099... the real question is... why? What are you looking to achieve?
    If you want to play "electric guitar" through an amp - yeah, floater is the way to go. Reissue Dearmonds are cheap and easy, and sound more or less like the originals. Boom.

    But if you want "acoustic guitar but louder"... well I still wonder, "Why?". Are you looking to play outdoors and have the sound carry a bit more?
    Hi Jonathan
    Hope things are ok.
    Here's why I am knocking this around - -and asked for ideas here of course.
    My only other elec. is a WesMo. I'll never be on a gig, and thus never take that guitar too far from home. But if I ever wanted to have an amplifiable guitar to take anywhere, all I have is this ' 52 acoustic -and 2 other acoustics.
    Or for just plugging in to play around the house, what could be done, without going through a bunch of motions ? I have an excellent luthier and he mentioned the Fishmans, but I am confident he could do whatever needed doing.
    Thanks Jonathan.
    Dennis

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis D
    Hi Jonathan
    Hope things are ok.
    Here's why I am knocking this around - -and asked for ideas here of course.
    My only other elec. is a WesMo. I'll never be on a gig, and thus never take that guitar too far from home. But if I ever wanted to have an amplifiable guitar to take anywhere, all I have is this ' 52 acoustic -and 2 other acoustics.
    Or for just plugging in to play around the house, what could be done, without going through a bunch of motions ? I have an excellent luthier and he mentioned the Fishmans, but I am confident he could do whatever needed doing.
    Thanks Jonathan.
    Dennis
    For a magnetic pickup, I think there's an advantage to having the pickup as close to the fingerboard (or where the 24th fret would be) as possible. Mellower sound.

    The D'Armonds may not fit under the strings at that point. If not, there are thinner pickups which might be a good choice.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    For a magnetic pickup, I think there's an advantage to having the pickup as close to the fingerboard (or where the 24th fret would be) as possible. Mellower sound.

    The D'Armonds may not fit under the strings at that point. If not, there are thinner pickups which might be a good choice.
    I am always afraid of that - -I've 'always picked up there' and ideally always need a space between the p/u and fb and obviously the strings.

  26. #25

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    I forgot to mention the Bartlett Audio Guitar Mike B that takes a 9V battery:

    Bartlett Guitar Mic B - Bartlett Audio

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
    I forgot to mention the Bartlett Audio Guitar Mike B that takes a 9V battery:

    Bartlett Guitar Mic B - Bartlett Audio
    That also looks interesting...Are there any vids / photos anywhere ? I got a reply from Bruce B that I'd need 3/4 of an inch opening but so far no other dimensions......

    Thanks Jab.

  28. #27

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    From Bruce B

    I at first replied that it wouldn't get used on a gig - -only at my home.
    This is Bruce's reply:

    FYI

    " Details:
    In that case, feedback is not a serious problem. I'd recommend our Mandolin Mic for your archtop. Just clip it onto an f-hole, either the inner side or outer side of the f-hole, whatever sounds best.
    Will you connect the mic to an acoustic instrument amp, or to an audio interface? The Mandolin Mic has an XLR connector and requires phantom power. If your amp lacks phantom power, you need to purchase a phantom power supply such as the Behringer PS400 or the Rolls PB23.
    If you prefer, I can custom-make you a Mandolin Mic-B with a battery pack instead of an XLR connector. The Mandolin Mic-B runs off a 9-volt battery which lasts about one year. The battery pack lies on the floor. You connect a guitar cord between the battery pack and your amp's 1/4" input. It would look like the Guitar Mic-B on our website:
    Bartlett Guitar Mic B - Bartlett Audio

    Bruce "

  29. #28

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    Amplifying an Acoustic Archtop - Bridge P/U or Floater (or a Mic)?-bartlett-2-jpg

    Here's another image from Bruce Bartlett. He included a note that said the f-hole can be as small as 5/8 in. - -just orient the clip parallel to the hole and rotate it 90 degrees to attach.
    Is this all that'd be exposed ? ( meaning no other mic ? )
    Then it'd connect to the battery pack, then I'm guessing to a pre-amp, and then the amp......( right ? )

    So far, this option looks to be the easiest to use.

    Updates to follow.

    Thx.

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
    I forgot to mention the Bartlett Audio Guitar Mike B that takes a 9V battery:

    Bartlett Guitar Mic B - Bartlett Audio

    And ( dumb question ) - -why is a battery necessary ?

    Then - what would be the 'circuit'- -clip-wire-to-battery pack - to-pre-amp-to amp ?

    This still looks like the least intrusive / easiest to use...Wonder how they sound ......

    Thx.

  31. #30

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    The Krivo christianm77 posted above with a video may be easiest to use if that is what you want. I assume it could be mounted with Blue Stick putty or something similar so you could just slap it on and plug it into an amp without phantom power or batteries. Maybe he can weigh in on how he mounts it.

  32. #31

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    Well, there is one way to find out how they sound.

  33. #32

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    Right, and be sure to let us know.

  34. #33

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    Dennis,
    I put a Lollar gold foil floater on my '44 L7. Couldn't be happier.
    Regarding the Barbera, I have one on a classical guitar that I use for latin tunes and I really like it too!
    It belonged to Michael Biller, RIP, a dear friend who understood and was very exacting in his requirements for these things.
    I didn't install either of them, so I can't comment on how much pain in the arse it is to do it.
    There is a volume wheel under the pickguard on the L7.
    Sounds very clean, and I've not ever noticed a hum.
    Steve
    Attached Images Attached Images Amplifying an Acoustic Archtop - Bridge P/U or Floater (or a Mic)?-lollar-gold-foil-single-coil-jpg Amplifying an Acoustic Archtop - Bridge P/U or Floater (or a Mic)?-20200429_105621-jpg 
    Last edited by skykomishone; 08-16-2020 at 12:21 PM.

  35. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chazmo
    The Krivo christianm77 posted above with a video may be easiest to use if that is what you want. I assume it could be mounted with Blue Stick putty or something similar so you could just slap it on and plug it into an amp without phantom power or batteries. Maybe he can weigh in on how he mounts it.
    It comes with some fancy technical tape that comes into direct contact with the guitar. Works pretty well if you keep it clean. Sounds better than using putty. I just have it on that guitar pretty much all the time.

    You plug it straight in.

  36. #35

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    Sort question: Does the Krivo micro Manouche work with bronze strings?

    Thanks

  37. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomN805
    Sort question: Does the Krivo micro Manouche work with bronze strings?

    Thanks
    The micro Manouche is actually designed for acoustic strings. (The micro PAF one they do is designed more for nickels) However MM sounds good with any strings .

  38. #37

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    I recommend K&K Big Twins mounted on the top from the inside with super glue gel, one under each bridge foot area. Loud enough to work passive, flat so no need for a preamp if one isn't handy. Very good sound, no batteries to remember, no impact on acoustic tone. There when you need it. Practice installing first till you can pull it off when you add the super glue.