The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Wow, those 2 are really close!
    Especially the last one. This is getting interesting.
    JD

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    Interesting. Looks like all three of these came from the same place. The one with candy cane binding has the Carbonell label, but it's not like other Carbonell guitars of the time, though. My best guess is still that Carbonell père didn't make it, but bought it from one of the Bohemian makers, who built a lot of instruments for export to distributors and retailers under different brand names. 1936 is early days for archtop guitars in Europe - Hofner and Otwin come to mind as potential suppliers. It's all edumacated guesswork, IMO. More research required...

    Here's a higher-end '30s Otwin by comparison.
    Attached Images Attached Images Help me identify this old archtop-carbonell-archtopx3-png Help me identify this old archtop-otwin-jpg 
    Last edited by Hammertone; 10-28-2020 at 10:11 PM.

  4. #28

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    Were these typically 16" laminates, pressed, carved?

  5. #29

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    Pre-war, the better ones had carved or pressed laminated tops.
    Not sure about the backs, but I'll bet most are laminated.
    Otwin also made some all-laminated ones.
    Last edited by Hammertone; 10-28-2020 at 10:10 PM.

  6. #30

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    Hi!
    Interesting research. I’m chiming-in because I’m the actual owner of the Carbonell guitar from the photos.
    Info I can share with you now is that fretboard inlays are not original, somebody added them at some point.
    Headstock is fully original with these nylon roller tuners and interesting inlays. Fretboard seems ebony and its exceptionally wide: it measures 48mm at zero fret.
    Guitar is now at my luthier’s ‘cause somebody was interested in buying it and I left it there to try it but if it doesn’t sell and somebody is interested in photos or measurements I can do it when I get it back.

  7. #31

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    Pix of the back, the neck heel, the back of the headstock, edges of the f-holes, please.

  8. #32

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    I am just digging the whole vibe of Fred Archtop's grandfather's guitar, and it's apparent siblings.
    Last edited by Cunamara; 08-14-2020 at 10:07 PM. Reason: Fixing typical voice to text typos

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by foner
    Hi!
    Interesting research. I’m chiming-in because I’m the actual owner of the Carbonell guitar from the photos.
    Info I can share with you now is that fretboard inlays are not original, somebody added them at some point.
    Headstock is fully original with these nylon roller tuners and interesting inlays. Fretboard seems ebony and its exceptionally wide: it measures 48mm at zero fret.
    Guitar is now at my luthier’s ‘cause somebody was interested in buying it and I left it there to try it but if it doesn’t sell and somebody is interested in photos or measurements I can do it when I get it back.
    have you any information on the history of this guitar ?

  10. #34

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    Hi folks,

    Did anybody of the contributers here already read this book:

    Bohemian Jazz Guitars Tribute

    Please see here:
    Bohemian Jazz Guitars Tribute

    My recommendation: get it, read it and then come back. These guys did an excellent in-depth research on the topic, the book is packed with info and top grade photography!

    In short: all the guitars in question are clearly made in Schönbach (or at least in a workshop nearby).

    The "Carbonell": the headstock overlay couldn´t be more "Schönbach". You find this guitar under various brand names. Carbonell was only the dealer in this case - not the maker.

    As most of this stuff was made for export a good part sported Italian (sounding) names to suggest traditional old school lutherie.

    Best known is the "Martin Coletti" brand of the British importer Dallas. Others are:
    - Cantonella
    - Carlo Moreno
    - Cerlino
    - Francotta
    - Guiseppe

    These guitars are either carved or laminated - no pressed into shape solid tops at this time.
    Lamination was done in a specific way - would take me too far to explain - as said: read The Book!

  11. #35

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    Yes - I did remember correctly: I saw this extra wide bridge base before:

    Help me identify this old archtop-dixie_01_01-jpgHelp me identify this old archtop-dixie_01_02-jpgHelp me identify this old archtop-dixie_01_04-jpgHelp me identify this old archtop-dixie_01_05-jpgHelp me identify this old archtop-dixie_01_09-jpg

    This time an example with an English sounding name.
    Interessting part here is the stamp on the back of the head: "Made in Czechoslovakia"

    There are a couple of brand names giving an American flavour:

    - Avalon
    - Bell-Tone
    - Clou
    - Dixie
    - Ed Lang
    - Gilson
    - Majestic
    - Premier
    - Radiotone
    - Ridgmount
    - Tuxedo
    .....

    All of them "Bohemian Jazz guitars"!

  12. #36

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    Here 2 more samples of Schönbach made guitars from the late 30ies with the extra wide bridge base:

    Help me identify this old archtop-schonbach_nn_02_03-jpgHelp me identify this old archtop-schonbach_nn_02_04-jpgHelp me identify this old archtop-schonbach_nn_02_09-jpgHelp me identify this old archtop-schonbach_nn_02_14-jpg

    and:

    Help me identify this old archtop-schonbach_nn_21_02-jpgHelp me identify this old archtop-schonbach_nn_21_03-jpgHelp me identify this old archtop-schonbach_nn_21_08-jpg

    And yes: slotted headstock combined with an archtop body was a very common feature of this era. (at least for the Czech made stuff)

  13. #37

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    And one more; again with a slotted headstock:

    Help me identify this old archtop-schonbach_nn_29_01-jpgHelp me identify this old archtop-schonbach_nn_29_02-jpgHelp me identify this old archtop-schonbach_nn_29_04-jpgHelp me identify this old archtop-schonbach_nn_29_09-jpg

  14. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by alteklampfe
    Hi folks,

    Did anybody of the contributers here already read this book:

    Bohemian Jazz Guitars Tribute


    Please see here:
    Bohemian Jazz Guitars Tribute

    My recommendation: get it, read it and then come back. These guys did an excellent in-depth research on the topic, the book is packed with info and top grade photography!

    In short: all the guitars in question are clearly made in Schönbach (or at least in a workshop nearby).

    The "Carbonell": the headstock overlay couldn´t be more "Schönbach". You find this guitar under various brand names. Carbonell was only the dealer in this case - not the maker.

    As most of this stuff was made for export a good part sported Italian (sounding) names to suggest traditional old school lutherie.

    Best known is the "Martin Coletti" brand of the British importer Dallas. Others are:
    - Cantonella
    - Carlo Moreno
    - Cerlino
    - Francotta
    - Guiseppe

    These guitars are either carved or laminated - no pressed into shape solid tops at this time.
    Lamination was done in a specific way - would take me too far to explain - as said: read The Book!
    Wow, I will buy this book!

    Thanks for the great input.

    Cheers.

  15. #39

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    What's in a (brand) name or label?
    Yes, the probability is very high that the guitar shown by the OP was made in Schönbach/Bohemia, possibly in the late 1930s.


    As early as the end of the 19th century, the instruments produced in Schönbach were not only being sold on the domestic Austrian-Hungarian market, but were also being sold to neighboring countries Russia, the Balkans, via Trieste to Italy, and via Hamburg to overseas territories. The most important foreign customer, however, was Markneukirchen in Germany, from where Schönbach instruments (and components) were delivered by local retailers or exporters to all countries in the world.
    In 1906 the productive cooperative of musical instrument makers was founded in Schönbach, mainly with the aim of expanding exports without that "detour" via Markneukirchen. Of course, the results of the First World War and the Great Depression from 1929 to 1932 had negative impacts on the production numbers in Schönbach.

    The official Czech statistics for 1937 show 89,227 plucked instruments produced; a specialist like Josef Höfner estimated the number of guitars to be 45,000 to 50,000. Unfortunately, there is no longer any information about the proportion of archtop guitars. 26 percent of these guitars went to the USA, 13.5 percent to the German Reich, 10.3 percent to Great Britain.

    For comparison: in 1937, more than seven times this number of guitars were made in the USA. In 1939, Schönbach had a population of 4,269 (among them Czechs less than 100), the USA approx. 130 millions. Nevertheless, among the pre-WWII Schönbach guitar makers were some excellently qualified people, which was primarily due to a kind of early form of dual education system.

  16. #40

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    Thanks to Altekampfe and Ol'Fret for all these informations .
    By the way, what about the "European Guitar" forum ? I still miss it.

  17. #41

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    I started the European Guitar forum and ran it for several years as its Moderator. An un-named person was its Adminstrator. He assassinated it without consulting anyone and will presumably be consigned to a suitable spot in Dante's Inferno for this sin, among his many other sins. I do have bits and pieces of it in storage.

    "But, other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?"

  18. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammertone
    I started the European Guitar forum and ran it for several years as its Moderator. An un-named person was its Adminstrator. He assassinated it without consulting anyone and will presumably be consigned to a suitable spot in Dante's Inferno for this sin, among his many other sins. I do have bits and pieces of it in storage.

    "But, other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?"

    Yes, yes, one day Dante's Lake Cocytus will be overcrowded!
    On the other hand: Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people.

  19. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammertone
    I started the European Guitar forum and ran it for several years as its Moderator. An un-named person was its Adminstrator. He assassinated it without consulting anyone and will presumably be consigned to a suitable spot in Dante's Inferno for this sin, among his many other sins. I do have bits and pieces of it in storage.

    "But, other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?"
    Too bad !
    Anyway it seems that there is a strong interest for european guitars on this forum ?

  20. #44

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    I’ve heard so Much about this forum and I’ve even read fragments of it through the Internet Archive! Such a shame to find a forum I’d have loved to join and to know it’s gone...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  21. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by JFranck
    Too bad!Anyway it seems that there is a strong interest for european guitars on this forum?
    Quote Originally Posted by xavierbarcelo
    I’ve heard so Much about this forum and I’ve even read fragments of it through the Internet Archive! Such a shame to find a forum I’d have loved to join and to know it’s gone...
    There are several related facebook forums as well.
    And several decent websites.

    A few of us have resurfaced on this forum, which is fine by me.
    I think it's a great place for discussion of European archtop guitars, because it provides the opportunity for a bunch of folks who are interested in the well-known American and custom archtops to learn about the parallel universe of European archtop builders, from crapalicious factory guitars to spectacular hand-built masterpieces.
    Last edited by Hammertone; 08-19-2020 at 05:47 PM.