Loving the 175 through the raezer's edge luna amp.

[jzucker]

i keep meaning to learn this tune better...

Loving the 175 through the raezer's edge Luna amp.

[wintermoon]

Back in the vintage Gibson saddle too I see, there's just something about those old Gibsons, sounds great man.
Had an old '65 Super 400 out last night through a '66 Twin w/ Jensens, what a sound, very inspiring! A great old Gibson w/ great pickups has that fullness and zing I just don't hear in modern guitars, no offense to those that own them. You'll have duds in all eras, but a great old Gibson beats a great new Gibson every time.
That's a favorite tune you don't hear much anymore, I forget about it myself from time to time.

[jzucker]

Back in the vintage Gibson saddle too I see, there's just something about those old Gibsons, sounds great man.
Had an old '65 Super 400 out last night through a '66 Twin w/ Jensens, what a sound, very inspiring! A great old Gibson w/ great pickups has that fullness and zing I just don't hear in modern guitars, no offense to those that own them. You'll have duds in all eras, but a great old Gibson beats a great new Gibson every time.
That's a favorite tune you don't hear much anymore, I forget about it myself from time to time.

yep, agreed regarding the older gibsons. I am not sure the exact year of this. The serial number indicates it's a 71, 72 or 73. It's a 3 pc mahogany but it's a better quality build than the '88 I had and sounds better. I know there are a lot of fans of new gibsons on the forum but tbh, no new gibson has this type of sound. At least none that I've played or owned. I do like some '90s L5s I've played but any of the 175s from the last 25 years or so don't really have this sound to my ears...

[wintermoon]

Yeah man, there's definitely good sounding ones from later yrs, but the old ones that have been played consistently knock me out more than modern examples. It's probably not the build quality, newer ones can be just as good if not better, but the combo of old wood and playing time makes a big difference imo.
btw, you can probably rule out '72 on yours, that's the year of the Gibson embossed pickup covers. I'm guessing yours is around '73-'74 ish, but no later.than '75.

[DB's Jazz Guitar Blog]

i keep meaning to learn this tune better...

Loving the 175 through the raezer's edge Luna amp.

Very cool playing and sound Jack. Soulful and modern at the same time. Great.

DB

[coryB]

Yeah man, there's definitely good sounding ones from later yrs, but the old ones that have been played consistently knock me out more than modern examples. It's probably not the build quality, newer ones can be just as good if not better, but the combo of old wood and playing time makes a big difference imo.
btw, you can probably rule out '72 on yours, that's the year of the Gibson embossed pickup covers. I'm guessing yours is around '73-'74 ish, but no later.than '75.

My '72 ES-175 has the original pickups but does not have embossed pickup covers. My '72 Les Paul does.

I did quite a bit of research about the pickups when I got the 175 because I thought they should be embossed. From the Gibson history that I've found, the embossed covers were short lived because the factory assemblers kept mixing them up for neck/bridge position so they were phased out quickly.

[Max405]

I was waiting for the runs.. And then at the 2 minutes mark, JACK walked (well ran) in!!
Nice stuff Jack. I like the lid too!
JD

[jzucker]

Thanks so much guys. One thing to consider is that the pickups may be replaced so you can't go by the covers or identifying stickers, etc.

Case in point, recently I was close to pulling the trigger on a '61 Barney Kessel on reverb. It was a dealer selling it so I thought it would be safe. He claimed that the pickups were replaced with later '60s versions and he showed the pickups with the sticker on the bottom and these were patent number pickups. I kind of wondered why someone who was going to the trouble of parting out a '61 Kessel would spend so much money putting patent number pickups in it. Seems like if you were parting it out, you'd just go with duncan antiquities or dimarzio seth lovers. Because - while '61 pickups might be going for $2k, patent number pickups are not cheap. It's not unusual to get $500-$600 each for them.

So I did a little research and found that there are people selling patent number stickers and there was a whole web page dedicated to counterfeit stickers and sure enough, i identified the stickers as counterfeit according to this site: Fake PAF and PAT # pickups

Since the dealer was absolutely firm with an ALL SALES FINAL policy and was ignorant of the details of counterfeit stickers *AND* guitar guitar was $4k, i passed on it.

[Wildcat]

Jack you bring up a very good point. Counterfeiting now extends beyond just guitars. It now includes guitar parts and documentation. Not long ago I saw blank Gibson COAs for sale on Ebay. On Esty websites I saw Gibson Custom Shop waterslide decals. These were coming from overseas. Unfortunately many people do not have the knowledge and perspective to see beyond what doesn't make sense.

Thanks so much guys. One thing to consider is that the pickups may be replaced so you can't go by the covers or identifying stickers, etc.

Case in point, recently I was close to pulling the trigger on a '61 Barney Kessel on reverb. It was a dealer selling it so I thought it would be safe. He claimed that the pickups were replaced with later '60s versions and he showed the pickups with the sticker on the bottom and these were patent number pickups. I kind of wondered why someone who was going to the trouble of parting out a '61 Kessel would spend so much money putting patent number pickups in it. Seems like if you were parting it out, you'd just go with duncan antiquities or dimarzio seth lovers. Because - while '61 pickups might be going for $2k, patent number pickups are not cheap. It's not unusual to get $500-$600 each for them.

So I did a little research and found that there are people selling patent number stickers and there was a whole web page dedicated to counterfeit stickers and sure enough, i identified the stickers as counterfeit according to this site: Fake PAF and PAT # pickups

Since the dealer was absolutely firm with an ALL SALES FINAL policy and was ignorant of the details of counterfeit stickers *AND* guitar guitar was $4k, i passed on it.

[jzucker]

Jack you bring up a very good point. Counterfeiting now extends beyond just guitars. It now includes guitar parts and documentation. Not long ago I saw blank Gibson COAs for sale on Ebay. On Esty websites I saw Gibson Custom Shop waterslide decals. These were coming from overseas. Unfortunately many people do not have the knowledge and perspective to see beyond what doesn't make sense.

the thing that ticked me off in the case of the BK was that it was a well respected dealer. You can't tell me that he doesn't have the capacity to investigate this on a $4k guitar?

[Jabberwocky]

It is for that reason that I avoid vintage Gibson guitars altogether. They get parted out to "unlock the value". I may as well get a new one.

[jzucker]

It is for that reason that I avoid vintage Gibson guitars altogether. They get parted out to "unlock the value". I may as well get a new one.

as long as the wood is still there, that's the most important part. My kessel was completely parted out with all new pickups and hardware and still sounded like a 60 year old guitar. That convinced me beyond anything that the electronics are not the major factor in how an older instrument sounds.

[deacon Mark]

Jack the sound of like this was more from the guitar and not some much elelctric/amp driven. I could hear the dry depth that sometime times I have not heard you have as in the past. Not that the past was better or worse but I can hear a difference. This certainly does not sound like the Kessel to me if my ears remember but, in the around it. This 175 almost to me has the qualities of a floating archtop pickup in picking up the airy sound, but not bright like a carved top. The amp possible the reason. From my perspective a very straight ahead jazz sound and so much different than your playing on the 335 type guitars. Between the 2 styles and sounds you got it covered.

Of interest just for my own benefit. Do you ever sit down and just play acoustic completely with the 175 and not plug in for lengths of time? Have you ever spent a lot of practice time playing an acoustic archtop only not using a amp. Reason I ask is that I remember Joe Pass saying many years ago just how different that that is. He would sometime play at home acoustic then go out on the gig electric and something else came out.

[Eck]

Great sound and playing. I also like the bass on the track. I’ve got a Japanese Martin imitation from the 70s. Reading the posts above I can see it’s worth fixing!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Guitarbean25]

I like this speed

[jzucker]

Jack the sound of like this was more from the guitar and not some much elelctric/amp driven. I could hear the dry depth that sometime times I have not heard you have as in the past. Not that the past was better or worse but I can hear a difference. This certainly does not sound like the Kessel to me if my ears remember but, in the around it. This 175 almost to me has the qualities of a floating archtop pickup in picking up the airy sound, but not bright like a carved top. The amp possible the reason. From my perspective a very straight ahead jazz sound and so much different than your playing on the 335 type guitars. Between the 2 styles and sounds you got it covered.

Of interest just for my own benefit. Do you ever sit down and just play acoustic completely with the 175 and not plug in for lengths of time? Have you ever spent a lot of practice time playing an acoustic archtop only not using a amp. Reason I ask is that I remember Joe Pass saying many years ago just how different that that is. He would sometime play at home acoustic then go out on the gig electric and something else came out.

Hi Mark, thanks for the thoughts. Yeah, i think there's something magic about a great 175 going through a great amp for sure. I wouldn't say it has floating pickup qualities though. I just think it's got that really vintage sounding plywood tone. And yeah, the 335 guitar is a compromise for sure. I like it and it's definitely easier to get around on and it doesn't feedback but it's never going to have the sound of an archtop. And I rarely play acoustically although I do love the sound of the 175 acoustically. Very thunky.

[Wildcat]

Giving them the benifit of the doubt perhaps they have a difficult time understanding or accepting this could happen.
During 2008 I saw my first fake Gibson Les Paul. The store had given the owner $1500 in drum equipment for the guitar. The store then listed it for $2200. The guitar tech happened to take a photograph and sent it to Gibson. Gibson subsequently declared "that's not our guitar!". After seeing it I call the largest local Gibson dealer to alert them. Basically they didnt care at all.
The store then listed it for $500. Pricing sort of like a Epiphone Les Paul.

the thing that ticked me off in the case of the BK was that it was a well respected dealer. You can't tell me that he doesn't have the capacity to investigate this on a $4k guitar?

[jzucker]

Giving them the benifit of the doubt perhaps they have a difficult time understanding or accepting this could happen.
During 2008 I saw my first fake Gibson Les Paul. The store had given the owner $1500 in drum equipment for the guitar. The store then listed it for $2200. The guitar tech happened to take a photograph and sent it to Gibson. Gibson subsequently declared "that's not our guitar!". After seeing it I call the largest local Gibson dealer to alert them. Basically they didnt care at all.
The store then listed it for $500. Pricing sort of like a Epiphone Les Paul.

In my case, i compared the sticker on these pickups to the counterfeit ones in the article I posted and it very clearly was a counterfeit patent number sticker and I sent the article to the dealer along with notes about the sticker being counterfeit. He continues to advertise the guitar as having patent number pickups. And prior to that, I talked to him for 15-20 minutes and he's a very knowledgeable guy and didn't come across as someone who was naive about the industry. I'm just disappointed that a dealer who has an "all sales final" policy is willfully ignorant about the authenticity of products he is attempting to sell.