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  1. #1

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    I was looking at a guitar which was modified from taking the standard trapeze tailpiece like what the 135 uses where the user installed the 6 finger tailpiece. If I buy it, I would like to go back to the simpler , lighter tailpiece. Anyone know if the hole patterns are the same?

    just to be clear, i'm not planning on drilling anything. The guitar is one i'm considering buying. It's had 3 tailpieces installed including the original barney kessel tailpiece (trapeze), then an aftermarket trapeze similar to the 135 and then the finger tailpiece. I'm just trying to determine how many holes have been drilled into the bottom of the guitar!
    Last edited by jzucker; 07-16-2020 at 11:36 AM.

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  3. #2

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    Jack the 135 tp mounting plate is smaller than the finger tp plate on my HRF, here's the approximate measurements.

    135 1 5/16" between screws 7/8" from screw to pin


    HRF 1 15/16" between screws 1" from screw to pin

    I'm not sure if all finger tp have the same mount.

    Which pups does the 135 have? the P100's have a LOT of sonic options for pup replacements if you want a project git. I happen to like the P100's

  4. #3
    Thanks. Do you know if the 135 mounting plate is the same as the originals that gibson used on some of the archtops? I'm trying to figure out (without pictures) if this guitar has 9 holes now...

  5. #4

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    That I can't say, but here's a pic of the 1993 135(left) and HRF (right) mounting plates. I hope it helps.



    finger tailpiece vs 135 tailpiece - mounting holes?-hrf_tp_base_135_tp_base-jpg

  6. #5
    thanks Gary.

  7. #6

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    If the holes do not match and you replace it anyway, would you drill holes on the tail piece or on the guitar?

    When I replaced the factory installed bigsby with a zigzag tailpiece on my ES 175, screw holes didn't match. I measured and drilled holes on the tail piece as to be safe. It worked and allowed me to option to revert back to the factory original, but it's a bit more work.

  8. #7
    just to be clear, i'm not planning on drilling anything. The guitar is one i'm considering buying. It's had 3 tailpieces installed including the original barney kessel tailpiece (trapeze), then an aftermarket trapeze similar to the 135 and then the finger tailpiece. I'm just trying to determine how many holes have been drilled into the bottom of the guitar!

  9. #8

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    When I pulled the Bigsby from my ES-195 I looked for a long time for a TP that I could match the hole pattern and when I found it I drilled the TP. I REALLY didn't care what the TP looked like as long as the bigsby was gone.

  10. #9

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    There is only one way to know how many holes are in the guitar. Take the tailpiece off and look. But if they're covered and you can't see them, why worry. The replacement you put on should use some of the same holes.

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    There is only one way to know how many holes are in the guitar. Take the tailpiece off and look. But if they're covered and you can't see them, why worry. The replacement you put on should use some of the same holes.
    how do you figure? The only hole it is guaranteed to use is the endpin. And I don't particularly care some day when it's sold, the prospective buyers will care.

  12. #11

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    If you get it record a clip... Before and after you change the pups

  13. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by GNAPPI
    If you get it record a clip... Before and after you change the pups
    not going to change the pickups

  14. #13

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    Very cool. I think the stock pups are very unique. Some call them thin and weak... But thats why we have volume and EQ controls.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by GNAPPI
    Very cool. I think the stock pups are very unique. Some call them thin and weak... But thats why we have volume and EQ controls.
    I don’t think the guitar in question is an ES-135 with P-100 pickups,. If I understand Jack correctly he is looking at a guitar that had the same tailpiece at some point. Which is called - I believe - the standard ‘raised diamond’ trapeze tailpiece. I think a Barney Kessel tailpiece is actually the older style raised diamond trapeze tailpiece with a wooden insert:



    But the ES-135 raised diamond tailpiece is probably a more modern ABM 1504 with a different sized ‘butt plate’ without the strap pin hole:



    So chances are the guitar has multiple (filled?) holes.
    Last edited by Little Jay; 07-17-2020 at 04:03 AM.