The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Hallo jazz lovers! Do you have any experience with Gibson Herb Ellis signature model?

    What is the right price for such guitar in Europe?


    Gibson Herb Ellis-gibson-es-165-herb-ellis-jpg

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  3. #2

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    >What is the right price for such guitar in Europe?

    exactly the same as anywhere else. It is a global economy and in 2011 you can buy anywhere you like. For a used instrument just search ebay etc and dont let european dealers convice you that for some magical reason the guitars should be double the price compared to the US

    Herb Ellis in EXc condition can be found easily underneath 1750 US$ with 200 for shipping and 20% taxes (depending on where do you live ?) = about 1750 euro MAXIMALLY

    There are models with set-in pickups , and with floaters, so first decide which you like
    Last edited by fws6; 12-16-2011 at 08:59 AM.

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcis
    Hallo jazz lovers! Do you have any experience with Gibson Herb Ellis signature model?
    What is the right price for such guitar in Europe?
    fwiw I played a 165 with a *built-in* humbucker years ago in the Ivor Mairants shop in London. It was very playable and had that "dark" sound going on ...

  5. #4

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    I have a 96 ES165 (with the set humbucker, not the floating mini)

    Cant comment on pricing. I paid a hair under 1800 used and had to drive 2 hours to get it. The pickup had been changed to a 57Plus. I think I overpaid but not by any egregious amount.

    The Bad: As for the guitar itself I think it is ugly as sin. I never liked the flamed maple top. The tailpiece is a cheap asian part that has a reputation of breaking (like mine did).

    The Good: Sounds like a 175. I like the larger neck on it. Used they are considerably cheaper than a 175 and dont have the bridge pickup which I would never use. I put it up against my 64 ES125 and after the honeymoon was over the 165 won.
    Last edited by SamBooka; 12-27-2011 at 09:10 PM.

  6. #5

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    What's the difference between a 165 and a 175?
    Answer=10
    No, I am serious, where are the main differences?
    There exist also Gibson 175 models with only one pick up.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz_175
    What's the difference between a 165 and a 175?
    Answer=10
    No, I am serious, where are the main differences?
    There exist also Gibson 175 models with only one pick up.
    175 was originally a 1 pickup guitar, mahogany back, sides and neck. Laminate top. As they evolved, specs changed, maple replaced mahogany, pickups increased to 2, all with the 175 (original price) name.
    Herb Ellis played a 175. They wanted to make an instrument with the old specs and sound. It was the 165, a modern old style 175. Or that's how I understood it to be.

    David

  8. #7

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    I played one at Dave's Guitar Shop in La Crosse, WI, last weekend. Nice guitar, decent price. The one I played had a floating pickup. It has a more acoustic sound than the ES-175 with routed humbuckers.

    It bugs me just a little that it only has a volume control. I really like to "dial in the sound" with the tone control, rather than having to adjust the amp to get the sound I want.

  9. #8

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    any luthier could make you a tone control for like $20 ? If you dont want to drill in the guitar you could easily install a 'stealth pot' underneath the guard ?

  10. #9

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    For sure. You can even get tone and volume in a stacked pot, same space, and it works like a charm. Top pot is volume, lower is tone. I like this arrangement, or you could also put the tone under the pickguard as a slider. Lots of options.
    David

  11. #10

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    The Gibson Herb Ellis was my first archtop and I will never part with it. I love the natural and earthly tone it produces. You can say the L5 is objectively a better jazz guitar by definition, but to me they have different character.
    But it is ultimately a matter of taste. Do not buy one without trying it hands on for yourself. Some people might not like the kind of tone it produces, other people love it(I certainly do!). I have a few videos on YouTube where you can hear it in action.

  12. #11

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    i also have a 165 herb ellis with the set humbucker. out of my 15 guitars i find myself playing it the most! sounds great unpluged or amped. it is # one for looks, sound, and playabillity for me.

  13. #12

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    It really depends on what you are looking for. I love mine (ok... love/hate) because of the single pickup. Unplugged it sounds horrible.. but so do 175s in general. I get so caught up in Joe/Jim/Herb's playing that I dont listen to the instrument itself.

    Flamed top and gold hardware? Not my cup of tea. Dont get me started of the cheap off-shore tailpiece and Gibsons unwillingness to sell a replacement part.

    The ES165 is what it is.. my 96 is a decent priced ES175 with one pickup. I cant speak for later models.

    Take this with a grain of salt: Before I bought my 64 ES125 I read many people saying the sound is very similar to an early 50s ES175. 5 month later.. I put the 125 up against the 165. The 125 sounded better unplugged.. horrible.. but better. But the 165 was a better guitar plugged in. I soooo wanted to prefer the vintage mojo braz. fingerboard p90 ES125 but at the end of the day.. I play a 165.
    Last edited by SamBooka; 12-27-2011 at 09:40 PM.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz
    175 was originally a 1 pickup guitar, mahogany back, sides and neck. Laminate top. As they evolved, specs changed, maple replaced mahogany, pickups increased to 2, all with the 175 (original price) name.
    Herb Ellis played a 175. They wanted to make an instrument with the old specs and sound. It was the 165, a modern old style 175. Or that's how I understood it to be.

    David
    The confusion arises because there were two "Herb Ellis" models.

    Single pickup 175s were available until 1967 - initially with a P90 and then from around 1958 with a full size bucker. Herb played each of these.

    In the early 90s a single pickup 175 was reintroduced but renamed the ES165. These had a full size humbucker and a tone and volume control and looked like the old 175s. These models had a Herb Ellis signature on the headstock.

    In 2004, Gibson introduced the "Herb Ellis" model. This had the 175 body but with a single floating minibucker, a volume control mounted in the pickguard and no tone control.

    All 175s were laminate, as was the 775, the posher version that was around for a short while in the 90s.

    The L4CES is the carved top version of the 175. These are significantly less expensive than the other Gibson carved tops and I presume that they are carved by a robotic process.

    An interesting variant was the ES175CC. This was around for a year or two around 1979 and was fitted with a single Charlie Christian pickup, using(wince) the three screws in the soundboard.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robin Nahum
    In the early 90s a single pickup 175 was reintroduced but renamed the ES165. These had a full size humbucker and a tone and volume control and looked like the old 175s. These models had a Herb Ellis signature on the headstock.

    In 2004, Gibson introduced the "Herb Ellis" model. This had the 175 body but with a single floating minibucker, a volume control mounted in the pickguard and no tone control.

    .
    I wouldnt say there were two models. All the lit I have seen is the same, they just changed the specs to a floater/single control and changed the finish options as well (much the same as a 56 ES175 is not a different model from a 58 ES175.. one had P90s.. the other PAFs)

    I didnt know about HEs condition at the time but by the time they changed to the floater/single control layout Herb was pretty much retired from playing, only making the the occasional guest apprearance.

  16. #15

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    I purchased my ES165 Herb Ellis two years ago, in Paris, right in the music alley (rue de Douai), for 2300 euros (new). At that time, a ES 175 went for 2800 euros, and a Tal Farlow between 3300 and 4300, depending on the store. Since then, I've watched price go up and down independently, to the point where a Herb Ellis would be more expensive than a ES 175, or where a 175 would go over 3000 euros. These prices were all over Paris. Today, two years later, the Herb Ellis isn't displayed on the Gibson site but is still available, new, in Paris, for 2300 euros. That seems about right for this guitar, which is a joy to play. The floating Johnny Smith pickup gives a mellow and woody but well defined sound.
    Last edited by bam; 12-28-2011 at 08:35 PM.

  17. #16

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    What is this ES-175 or ES-165 it was advertised as Gibson Sunburst Herb Ellis ES165 a few years ago

    i dated it as 2008 from serial dater site

    Gibson Herb Ellis-es165-jpg

  18. #17

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    Looks like a Gibson Sunburst Herb Ellis ES165, though the truss rod cover should have Herb Ellis' name embossed on it. Maybe they were shipped with a blank truss rod cover as well?

    Gibson ES-165 - Wikipedia

    In the 2004 variant the inlaid logo and crown return with Herb Ellis' name embossed on the trussrod cover. The earliest ES-165s shipped did not have Herb Ellis' signature on the headstock. This was added only after November, 1991.

  19. #18

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    It looks like a textbook Herb Ellis Model, which was an ES-165. I was looking at buying one that year. I am not aware of an ES-175 Herb Ellis Model. I can see how it can be confusing, especially since this appears to be a "stock photo" and not one of the actual guitar that is for sale. And it does look like some single pickup ES-175s, but maybe not for that year?

  20. #19

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    I thought all Herb Ellis ES165 models came with a t.o.m. bridge. One never knows with Gibson.

  21. #20

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    My e s 165 which admittedly is 10 years older does have a tune-o-matic bridge and the humbucker is not directly up against the fingerboard. Actually if I recall correctly the only e s 165 I have seen with the pick up against the fingerboard are the more recent floaters.

  22. #21

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    This has a 165 Tailpiece, a wooden bridge, the PUP is up against the neck , a bit like Joe Pass last ES175 his was thinner this was not normal 175/165 depth the tuners are Herb Ellis style.

  23. #22

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    The feature don’t fit right with anything as far as I can tell. The gold hardware and single pickup makes one think 165, but the 165 had a floating pickup by 2008 (why, I have no idea, since Herb never used a floater). The pickup placement is just wrong for either a 165 or a single pickup 175. The bridge is wooden rather than a TOM, but that’s an easy swap.

    A 2008 ES-165 with aftermarket installation of a set in humbucker?

  24. #23

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    Maybe it is a recent Herb Ellis (they type that has the floater) to which someone has attached a routed-in pickup in the L4ces/L5ces position.

  25. #24

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    chibson?! hah

    here's another? one that was auctioned off about a year ago, as a Gibson - ES-165 Herb Ellis 2001...

    Gibson - ES-165 Herb Ellis - Hollow body - United States of America - 2001 | Barnebys



    Gibson Herb Ellis-bcfcfb9e-0c54-4d14-9091-b55cfb73c964-jpg

    cheers

  26. #25

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    Here is a 2001 ES-165 Herb Ellis with the exact same features. OOPS, we found it at the same time! LOL!

    Gibson - ES-165 Herb Ellis - Hollow body - United States of America - 2001 | Barnebys