Gibson ES-165 Versus ES-175

**Sunburst 165** · 09-20-2016, 01:03 PM

If I had known he actually played one I wouldn't have been so hesitant to buy one. Not because he was relatively famous but because he wouldn't have played an inferior guitar. I feel like I stole mine. I paid 1850. including shipping about 5 months ago and it's in VG condition.

**agentsmith** · 09-20-2016, 02:12 PM

notice how the pickup is not exactly parallel to the neck on that 165?

For some reason, the late '80s 165 guitars had some quality control problems. The binding on mine was buffed too much and had some long indentations where someone burned/melted it away.

Additionally, the tailpiece - while it looked just like a 175 tailpiece - must have been cheaply made/imported because the ball end of daddario strings would slip right through them. I had to insert little pieces of wire through the ball ends of the strings to keep them from slipping.

OTOH, it was a great guitar. Brighter than my 175 but definitely in the ballpark.

**sgosnell** · 09-20-2016, 03:02 PM

Perhaps the perceived lack of parallelism is caused by parallax. Sometimes I see it, and sometimes I don't, depending on the camera angle. Cameras and angles can cause all sorts of perceived illusions, as UFO videos show. I somehow doubt that Gibson would have shipped an instrument with a crooked pickup installation to Herb. I've never seen the actual instrument, but there are many videos with it being played on the interwebtubez, and most don't seem to show pickups out of line. Not to say it didn't happen on other instruments, Gibson's quality control wasn't perfect on any model.

**agentsmith** · 09-20-2016, 03:11 PM

i don't think so. I think it's actually crooked and I *have* seen this issue before on gibson and heritage.

**sgosnell** · 09-20-2016, 06:12 PM

Anything is possible. I haven't personally inspected Herb's ES165, so I can't say one way or the other, but it would surprise me. Sending shoddy work to a major endorser is such poor business practice that it boggles the mind to even contemplate it. Of course, I've been surprised before, and I'm not a huge Gibson fan in any case.

**agentsmith** · 09-20-2016, 10:37 PM

i wasn't referring to herb's pic. I was referring to the original guitar pictured in this thread.

**Hammertone** · 09-21-2016, 01:38 AM

Gibson ES-165 vs. ES-175? Why not the best of both?
Here's one that formerly belonged to one of our esteemed members. He made a few changes, I made few changes. Now being played every day by a studious young jazz cat. No issues with crooked pickups or crappy tailpieces - this one sports a very well-made Japanese tailpiece.

Originally Posted by vinlander

That TKL case might even have been made by Etuis Boblen in Montréal on Rue Frontenac, they make cases for TKL and Gibson

That case was definitely made by Boblen. TKL, Gibson, Martin, Guild, Gertsch, Godin - they make and have made cases for all sorts of guitar companies. They make all sorts of stuff from functional cheapies to really nice double arch cases.

**caue amaral** · 01-06-2017, 01:18 AM

Herb and your es165...

**JMoto** · 04-25-2017, 01:51 AM

What's with the totally different layouts of the 165's?
There are 2 at Guitar center right now and look very different. Neither say what year their from but one has the standard 2 knobs on the body with the pickup set in an inch below the neck. The other has only one knob that's on the pick guard and a floating pickup just under the neck... Is one more desirable than the other? More 175-like? Surprised to see such a large difference.

**lawson-stone** · 04-25-2017, 10:22 AM

There was a major design change from the 90's to recent models. The 90's were like a one-pickup ES175 with less bling: decal instead of inlaid logo, Herb Ellis signature decal instead of crown inlay. The more recent shifted to a bit more bling, in fact, it looks like the ES175 body, but with a floater and pick-guard mounted volume.

That's just the new design. I have one of the old ones and love it. I have no experience with the new one, and don't know how a floater sounds on a laminate body, but I tend to think this guitar is likely way better than we might anticipate.

**Herbie** · 04-25-2017, 11:36 AM

I have understood that the turning point was 2004. The ES-165s from 1991 to 2004 have a full PAF size humbucker and from 2004 to 2013 (end of the line) they have a BJB floater.

BJB is the same pu that Le Grande has. But the woods are different of course (laminated vs solid top).

I had the latter model for some years. I loved the looks (and neck) but hated the thin sound of the mini humbucker.

But there is some clips in the YouTube where better players make the minihum-ES165 sound just beautiful.