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  1. #1

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    I had some trouble knowing what terms to search for, so I decided to make a post. My new archtop guitar (Eastman AR603ce-15) has been keeping me up at night! I’ve had it for about a week now, but in the last two days it has started making an intermittent “knock” that sometimes causes the strings to resonate quietly. It sounds like it’s coming from the tailpiece or pick guard, but it’s hard to tell. When I tuned it up this morning, all of the strings were sharp (some by almost a quarter step).

    The temperature has changed quite a bit this week and it has gotten fairly humid. I currently have the guitar hanging on a wall.

    Could this be a humidity issue? Do archtops have some sort of adjustment period to ‘settle in’? It’s about 6 months old. Any thoughts or advice?
    Last edited by mrventures; 06-25-2020 at 05:53 AM. Reason: Additional info about strings

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  3. #2

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    I can not rule out structural problems with your new guitar, but if that was the case, or if say the tailpiece was giving way to the string tension, I would have expected the guitar to play flat and not sharp.

    Is the fretboard made of ebony? If yes, the rising humidity can cause the fretboard to swell a bit. Ebony is regarded as a hard wood but it can nevertheless absorb humidity and swell - more so than the maple or mahogany neck it is glued onto. That could explain that your guitar plays sharp. Many guitars with ebony fretboards need a truss rod adjustment twice a year in spring and autumn when the wheather changes - not the least if the guitar is kept in a house with central heating which can have quite low humidity in the winter. Check out you neck relief to see if there is now a slight backbow (or less relief) as a result of a possible ebony swelling. Another result of ebony board swelling and shrinking can be protruding fret ends which then have to be filed down flush with the wood and rerounded at the ends. That happened to one of my guitars which was built over the summer and which developed protruding fret ends the first winter. It was easy to fix however and it's a favorite guitar of mine but I do have to adjust the trussrod twice a year.

  4. #3

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    All and especially solid wood guitars tend to absorb moisture towards the summer when relative humidity rises. Tuning may go up by a half step, even more. It's possible that when a roundwound string's winding moves a notch on the bridge, you can hear it at night. But this should not happen continuously. If the fretboard expands more than the rest of the neck, strings should start rattling, starting around the middle of the fretboard. A wild but improbable explanation is that you have a worm somewhere in the woodwork.

  5. #4

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    Can you be more descriptive about the "knocking" sound and when it happens? Nice guitar btw, I'm a 15" guy too. (No lewd comments, please.)

  6. #5
    It does have an ebony fingerboard atop a mahogany neck, but it doesn't seem like the frets are protruding beyond their original position. I am hoping that Gitterbug has the right idea -- it came with roundwounds which I haven't replaced yet (I have a set of TI JS112s awaiting installation). It has not been a continuous sound, nor has it been happening regularly; I've noticed it maybe once every 2-4 hours, though I am not always within earshot during the day and I do eventually fall asleep at night.

    I'll try to figure out if the neck relief has a backbow.

    Thanks!

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound
    Can you be more descriptive about the "knocking" sound and when it happens? Nice guitar btw, I'm a 15" guy too. (No lewd comments, please.)
    This is one thing I have trouble describing, which is perhaps why I struggled to search for the issue if others have had it. I'll see if I can record it somehow, but sounds like a quick 'knock' with a slightly metallic overtone, or like something has expanded 'one notch'.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrventures
    It has not been a continuous sound, nor has it been happening regularly; I've noticed it maybe once every 2-4 hours, though I am not always within earshot during the day and I do eventually fall asleep at night.
    Are you saying it happens when you're not even playing it?

  9. #8
    That's exactly what I'm saying -- I haven't noticed this while actually playing the guitar.

  10. #9

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    Is it similar as when one starts to tune a guitar string which is a bit stuck in the nut and then it makes that knocking sound?

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrventures
    That's exactly what I'm saying -- I haven't noticed this while actually playing the guitar.
    Well then that might be serious. Maybe something is stretching or compressing or giving way. Have you changed the strings yet? Or it could just be the humidity, but it still shouldn't be that drastic that it makes a sound.

  12. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by vinlander
    Is it similar as when one starts to tune a guitar string which is a bit stuck in the nut and then it makes that knocking sound?
    Yes - this.

  13. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound
    Well then that might be serious. Maybe something is stretching or compressing or giving way. Have you changed the strings yet? Or it could just be the humidity, but it still shouldn't be that drastic that it makes a sound.
    Has the original roundwound strings that it came with.

  14. #13

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    Beatles

  15. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by mrventures

    I'll try to figure out if the neck relief has a backbow.
    Luckily, I had a set of feeler gauges. Using a few different sources on YouTube, I think I measured the relief correctly. It came out to just somewhere between .006" and .007" (closer to .007"). I read that 0.010" is typically the starting point, but I'm not sure if archtops tend to keep a shallower relief or if this indicates swelling. I can't seem to find Eastman's recommendation for neck relief -- I'll try to reach out to them. On the positive side, there is no buzzing.
    Last edited by mrventures; 06-25-2020 at 08:37 AM. Reason: deleted extra bracket in quote

  16. #15
    For additional info, I just tuned up my Fender Jazz bass (same room) and all strings were also sharp. No worrisome sounds coming out of it, though the strings haven’t been changed in over a year.

  17. #16

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    Deathwatch beetle.

    Archtop Wood “Knocking” Sound-60bc6b5d-583e-47dd-b6b3-a3f302c58ad6-jpg

  18. #17

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    Eastman's suggestion for neck relief is irrelevant, your preference and technique are the only factors to consider. That being if you prefer zero relief or very close to it, and you dig in hard when you play, you'll get buzzing. Find the relief that is comfortable to you and allows you to play as you wish with best results. .006 - .007 sounds pretty reasonable. I know some folks have had issues with Eastman tailpieces failing (as did some Jimmy D'Aquisto's) so I would look into that. Eastman USA customer support is as good as you'll ever experience so if there is a problem they will take care of you.
    I don't think neck relief could possibly be the source or factor of your knock.

  19. #18

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    JMO: I never measure any relief. I eyeball it down the line and adjust the tr, nut slots, and bridge to where I like it. Which is pretty flat and little relief, with low action. As they say, TEHO.

  20. #19

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    sounds like 2 distinct issues

    the tuning problem is common..temp and humidity changes moved the neck...straightening it, so that the strings went sharp...happens all the time, but most just retune their guitars and move on..wrong thing to do...as overtime the situation worsens...trussrod needs an adjustment..take care of it..and keep your guitar in its case

    as for the pinging...slight chance it could be the loose trussrod moving within the channel...but more likely the ball end of the string moving in the tailpiece end slot...sometimes the ball ends are not secure in the notch..check to see they are all seated...sometimes some slight filing is needed..another thing to check is that the screws holding the tailpiece on the rim of the guitar are secure and tight

    hopefully that will take care of it


    cheers

    ps- are you a big ventures fan?? nokie edwards!!

  21. #20

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    Put a little graphite in the nut slots ( #2 pencil ). If it still happens then it is something else.

    I always put a little graphite in the nut slots and a tiny drop of clock oil on every moving part of the tuners.

  22. #21

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    ^ in general, totally agree about some graphite in the slots ...nut and bridge...(tho i don't think slots are ops problem)...but i use a much softer pencil..a 9B...much better/easier graphite transfer...art supply store stock..give it a shot

    cheers

  23. #22

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    If you tape it and slow it down, you'll hear a voice saying "Your mother plays Strats in Hell!"

    If I had to guess, I'd say that the strings are binding at the nut while, at the same time, the neck is flexing due to a combination of the wood not being fully cured and/or increased summer humidity. The "knocking", however, does suggest something from another realm/dimension trying to break thru to our universe and pave the way for Great Cthulhu. So there's that to consider.

  24. #23

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    ..........I remember one of my acoustic L-7's doing that / making that noise......But, it was years ago and only when the wood was drying - -the start or middle of the really cold winter here when the furnace was going full blast, and the wood was going from humid to dry, but not the other way around - -meaning as the wood was being hydrated...............
    Last edited by Dennis D; 06-26-2020 at 10:07 AM.

  25. #24
    Great suggestions, everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by whiskey02
    Eastman's suggestion for neck relief is irrelevant, your preference and technique are the only factors to consider.

    Just to square this circle, when I asked Eastman what the suggested amount of relief is, this is what they replied:
    We recommend setting up this guitar to the specs below:

    • 1st Fret String Height:.022"
    • 12th Fret String Height:Bass .078" & Treble .062"


    Quote Originally Posted by BBGuitar
    I always put a little graphite in the nut slots and a tiny drop of clock oil on every moving part of the tuners.

    I'll try these out. Shouldn't be too hard finding pencil graphite as a math teacher, and clock oil should be equally as easy to find in Switzerland (though I'm sure it will cost double what it would in most other places!).

    Quote Originally Posted by neatomic
    the tuning problem is common..temp and humidity changes moved the neck...straightening it, so that the strings went sharp...happens all the time, but most just retune their guitars and move on..wrong thing to do...as overtime the situation worsens...trussrod needs an adjustment..take care of it..and keep your guitar in its case
    as for the pinging...slight chance it could be the loose trussrod moving within the channel...but more likely the ball end of the string moving in the tailpiece end slot...sometimes the ball ends are not secure in the notch..check to see they are all seated...sometimes some slight filing is needed..another thing to check is that the screws holding the tailpiece on the rim of the guitar are secure and tight

    Will look into these. TBH, I'm not seasoned enough to know how much relief I like, especially when we are talking about thousandths of an inch. However, I'll adjust it for a touch more relief and see if that helps. Will also take a look at the tailpiece and ball ends.

    Quote Originally Posted by neatomic
    ps- are you a big ventures fan?? nokie edwards!!

    I do enjoy The Ventures, but that's not what my u/n refers to. It's a mispronunciation of my surname by a former student of mine; I thought it sounded cool so I adopted it.


    BTW, I have not heard the knocking for the past two days. It has also rained each night, so it's been fairly cool throughout the day. I have a Shelly Humidity and Temperature sensor on the way to get an idea of what's going on humidity-wise in the room.

    Is keeping the guitar in a case a good general recommendation?

  26. #25

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    As to staying in the case... I have a very fine classical that stays in the case, of course with a digital temp/humidity monitor that’s been calibrated. (I sure do not wish to open the case to find 12,000US$ of toothpicks)))
    You know through summer and winter I’ve rarely - if ever - found a significant difference from room to case humidity. I don’t know if others find the same, but the two readings stay very close in my room.
    Easily tested and proved/disproved. YMMV.
    take care
    d

    VENTURES!!! Loved their stuff played along with all of it. It’s why my first good guitar was a Jaguar. Me and Joe Pass! But the Comparison ends there.