The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Posts 51 to 75 of 94
  1. #51

    User Info Menu

    My tastes in and appreciation for guitars has evolved considerably over the more than 4 decades I have played. I did start having brand awareness soon after I started playing. This is something that's drilled into the consumer by marketing, so it's nearly impossible to avoid. Martin was the brand that I aspired to - mostly for the quality of the instruments they made but also for the aesthetics of their brand. After many, many years I finally attained my goal of owning one. I turned my nose at imports for many years, aspired to (and even owned for a while) a high-end, custom instrument built by an independent luthier.

    Tone and playability have always been paramount for me, but aesthetics are also important. I have played amazing flying V's, but that's not my thing and I'll never own one. It's still fun to check them out and appreciate them as instruments. That's the thing about musical instruments. They can be both the functional sound machine as well as an object of art to be admired for its own aesthetic beauty. The combination of an amazingly beautiful object that also makes beautiful sounds is a compelling combination. And yes, the beautiful sound created by an instrument has more to do with the player than the instrument, but the instrument certainly has an influence. Chris Thile playing his Loar will always sound more incredible than Chris Thile playing a 'The Loar'. (But I'm sure he could make a 'The Loar' sound incredible.)

    Some folks love to geek out on gear. I don't begrudge them. I like looking at (but not owning) vintage gear and talking about the attributes of my guitars with other guitarists. I especially like discovering brands or models that I didn't know about and that match my preferences. And my instrument collection has evolved over the years. I keep it limited to instruments I'll play - I don't want to own an instrument just for the sake of saying I own it. And I've ditched the handmade guitar (which I didn't play enough to warrant having all that money tied up in it). It was fun to go through that process and to be a patron to the builder. But the responsibility of owning a guitar of that value wasn't offset (for me, anyway) by whatever enjoyment I derived from playing it. (And I'm not made of money....;-). FWIW I didn't buy that guitar for the sake of saying 'I own a Klein.' I bought it because I loved his guitars and thought it would be amazing to have one. And I found myself with the means to have him make one for me at a certain point in my life. And it was amazing to own and to play. I also became friends with him through the process of the build and that was really nice.

    I now own a mix of US and imported instruments. They all are great and play wonderfully (in some cases out of the box and in some cases because I had a luthier do a good setup on them). So I appreciate that imports can be great instruments, and can be purchased for a fraction of the cost of US. That also makes me wonder about the working conditions and quality of life of the folks that made my instrument. Another thing to think about and talk about with other guitarists.....

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by broturtel
    TL;DR: Why do we pay so much for the same package with a different name on it? Why do some people "only play authentic." AND another question: when someone doesn't play an American instrument, why is there so much backlash for it? Especially if it's affordable and high quality.

    long version snipped)

    BT
    I think your observations are off. From what I've seen on this forum, in many years of hanging out on music forums, and in the real world with other musicians, "brandism" as you call it, and denigration of less expensive gear is much less common than you make it seem. And I have literally never encountered a musician in person say that only American-made equipment is good or criticize someone else for playing a non-US-made instrument. In the real world, people play the instruments they like because they can. On the internet, people say dumb or provocative stuff ... because they can.

    John

  4. #53

    User Info Menu

    With many it's an ego thing - if someone says "I play 'xxxxx' brand guitar, it boosts his/her ego and impresses the listener who may not know much. Personally, I couldn't care less what brand guitar someone plays as long as he can play. Simple enough. I've never been impressed by names (although I used to have a 'thing' for the Chet Atkins Gretsch models) and I've made a whole lot of $$$$ for a lot of years playing homemade Telecasters. I just can't see putting a lot of money in an instrument based on the name on the peghead or who plays it. Just my $.02.....ymmv.

  5. #54

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny W.
    TGP has discussions like this one ongoing all the time. Nothing is ever resolved.

    Danny W.
    How could it be? We all think diferently and no one is wrong about what they decide for themselves. Kind of a foolish topic makes people have to justify what they do. Hint "you don't have too"
    Last edited by skiboyny; 06-05-2020 at 09:33 AM.

  6. #55

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    DO YOU SERIOUSLY WANT TO START IN ON LAWN MOWERS!!
    Too late, see post 37.

  7. #56

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by lukmanohnz
    So I appreciate that imports can be great instruments, and can be purchased for a fraction of the cost of US. That also makes me wonder about the working conditions and quality of life of the folks that made my instrument. Another thing to think about and talk about with other guitarists.....
    It has taken too long for someone to mention working and living conditions. It should be said importing from China is not the same as a Japanese import or even Korean.

    What makes me sad is when I see people who own 4, thousand dollar imports from China (of essentially the same guitar). Rather than owning one instrument made well from good quality components and by people who can earn a living.

    I think it is more a reflection of consumerism. But I find it such a waste of resources and money.

    If you have money to burn. By all means buy three d'Angelico archtops.

    Full disclosure: I own three luthier built guitars as well as vintage instruments. But I also bought a used loar archtop to leave at school. Because I don't trust students not to step on anything.

  8. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    ...but if you’d like to find me a non vintage guitar that does what my Loar LH600 does for less than $5K be my guest...
    One of the guitars I own is a Loar LH-650. Great guitars! And seriously incredibly cheap for solid wood guitars. Literally got this guitar for WAY less than $1K, b-stock.

  9. #58

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    ...For instance, my knackered old tuners are a nightmare but I can’t replace them....
    Why not?

  10. #59

    User Info Menu

    I like good gear. It's possible to be a gear-head and have no brand loyalty or own a ton of gear. I own the best 3 guitars that I can scrape up the cash for. I play guitar and don't have the income for the big name archtops. I do own a Lehmann though.

    As was mentioned, I only see brand snobbery online and not around here for the most part. I hate the posts where someone puts somebody down for paying too much for a top end instrument. Some of the stuff about Lerch's Manzer was pretty hard to take.

    All my best to those that can have the instrument they want, as well as those who prefer 'bang-for-the-buck'.

  11. #60

    User Info Menu

    I own several mainline US made instruments, and have gigged with all of them. I also have owned, and gigged with, several offshore brands of good quality. I love 'em all. I do think it is relevant to point out that most of the designs and features of our favorite instruments originated with US makers and that that deserves some respect.

    Anecdote: I used to schlep an extra guitar to every gig, some of which admitted the general public and served alcohol, with predictably un-predictable results. One night things started to get a little dicey, so I cased my (for-the -time quite expensive, but superlative) US-made instrument and got out the Asian-made beater, which looked good, played well, and was, relatively speaking, expendable. For one song. Next tune, back to the snob-worthy, built-like-a-tank, great looking, great sounding, Never-let-me-down instrument the served the music and me as well as the vintage Made-in-USA collectible guitar it took the place of as my #1.*

    *I still took a spare guitar, but it was a better one.

    Anecdote#2: Audiences haven't a clue, and in any case don't care. We were playing a local watering hole on evening when during a break, an acquaintance, who was perhaps a tad over the legal limit, came up to me and took me to task for playing a "Japanese guitar"( the guitar in question was, natch, my #1, made in Annapolis, MD. USA.
    This, on a night when I debuted my new stage clothes: three changes of three colors of long-tailed tuxedos with matching top hats and frilly shirts.**

    ** It has long been my policy that, in the not-at-all-unlikely case that the police are called in for whatever reason, I do not wish to be mistaken for a patron.

  12. #61

    User Info Menu

    Some years back, I took a guitar class from a master player. The students were intermediate players with an exception or two. But what a collection of archtops! A Borys, L5, and some other boutique archtop makers.

    I've never wanted to be the worst player in a jam with the most expensive gear.

  13. #62

    User Info Menu

    Yeah, there's a guitar shop I used to spend a fair bit of time in as it was near work, specialising in expensive luthier-made guitars. One day I asked the assistant who most of their customers were, whether they were mostly professionals. he laughed and said they were mostly retired men who were pretty crap guitar players.

    In the acoustic folk world you would not believe the discrepancy between ability of guitarist and cost of instrument. It's almost like having a fine wine collection to some of them. Each to their own of course. I'll stop bitching now!

  14. #63

    User Info Menu

    Working with lots of other musicians besides guitarists in 2 jazz orchestras +, the only comment about gear I'd ever get would be "that sounds good" or "that's a pretty guitar". Never owned an American archtop.

  15. #64

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    We choose a profession that actually pays well and now when buying instruments, we like to go for something that doubles as art. Twice the joy.
    thats the emotional investment I’m talking about ... it’s often expressed at gigs by the middle aged dude who comes up to after a gig and insists on talking about guitars. similarly on this forum.

    People just want to be involved in music really. They might feel on some level they’ve sacrificed their chance to be involved to be involved in music 24/7 but at least they can have seriously nice guitars. There might be a bit of regret there, a bit of longing. Maybe when they were young they played more music, or really wanted x instrument. Buying a gorgeous guitar has a lot of bittersweet emotions to it, perhaps.

    The joke is they don’t realise we pros don’t have any more time to practice let alone play purely for pleasure, because we’re all doing other stuff like teaching, driving (a lot) and doing endless paperwork haha. But at least we get to play gigs for people who love the music.

  16. #65

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    thats the emotional investment I’m talking about ... it’s often expressed at gigs by the middle aged dude who comes up to after a gig and insists on talking about guitars. similarly on this forum.

    People just want to be involved in music really. They might feel on some level they’ve sacrificed their chance to be involved to be involved in music 24/7 but at least they can have seriously nice guitars. There might be a bit of regret there, a bit of longing. Maybe when they were young they played more music, or really wanted x instrument. Buying a gorgeous guitar has a lot of bittersweet emotions to it, perhaps.

    The joke is they don’t realise we pros don’t have any more time to practice let alone play purely for pleasure, because we’re all doing other stuff like teaching, driving (a lot) and doing endless paperwork haha. But at least we get to play gigs for people who love the music.
    That's me, sir. I could never cut it as a pro player, but when I do stop and play, I want that regret, that longing, to find some satisfaction. For some reason, I associate that with Martins in the world of acoustics, and Gibsons in the world of archtops. I know my talents and skills are not worthy of these fine instruments, but they give me something to live up to, in a strange sort of manner.

  17. #66

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    So you're telling me that we should drive shit cars, if we are bad drivers? Our driving skills don't make us worthy of better?


    Wouldn't common sense dictate that if you're a lousy driver then you'd be better off driving one of the better cars and not something cheap?


    I'll stop now .. but it is one of my pet peeves. That whole bad players shouldn't have expensive guitar gate keeping is really mental imho .. Pure penis envy if you ask me.

    It's my (and yours) hard earned money we're talking about here ..

    5000$ on something non guitar related like a holiday, motorcycle (can you even get a 5000$ motorcycle) or whatever .. Hey that's normal
    5000$ on a Gibson archtop .. Hey dude, have you earned the right to play that?? Insane!
    Your'e totally over-reacting. I expressed an emotion. Nothing more or less. Just a feeling.

  18. #67

    User Info Menu

    FWIW, I have very nice guitars including Gibsons which I love. That said, the guitar I play most often is my Memphis El300 Matsumoto.

  19. #68

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    Nonsense .. I'm not over reacting .. just being in full blown internet mode.

    I find it great that you're in awe of your instruments .. but with regards to deserving them .. off course you do. They inspire and allow you to get the best out of your (however limited) talent


    Cheers Lawson
    "full blown internet mode"-that makes my day!

    Thanks.

  20. #69

    User Info Menu

    I remember a review of a Gibson Super 400 where the reviewer wrote that it is the kind of guitar that when you show up to a gig with it, the cats will have some pretty high expectations of your playing.

    Here's the thing: When I show up to a gig with my Gibson Super 400, I have a pretty high expectation of my own playing. Now I would have that expectation with a Squier Strat as well, but the Super 400 will inspire my playing so much more. That said, I would not take the Super 400 to an outdoor bar gig that pays $100. I have a Gibson Les Paul Studio for those gigs, a guitar that is not overly expensive , but still inspires my playing better than a Squier Strat (or Korean DA....and I have owned a couple of those).

    Did I mention Gibsons rule?

  21. #70

    User Info Menu

    They are for playing...

  22. #71

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    Your'e totally over-reacting. I expressed an emotion. Nothing more or less. Just a feeling.
    Hey! It's more than a feeling.
    When I hear that old song they used to play and I begin dreaming.
    'Til I see Marianne walk away, of course.

  23. #72

    User Info Menu

    if their gear cheaper than mine = loser
    if their gear is more expensive than mine = they suck


  24. #73

    User Info Menu

    Seems fair!

  25. #74

    User Info Menu

    I've got a fair number of old archtops.

    Nothing "top shelf" I suppose because as it turns out I've always been quite happy with guitars like my two L-7's, a '52 ES-150, a '57 ES-225 and a hodge podge of lesser and middle of the road Epiphones and Guilds.

    So nothing to brag about....the few times I post pics or details about any of these, its meant to be more of a "show and tell" thing where I'm happy to maybe flush out a few like minded kindreds out there.
    I just love these old things.....and all the subtle differences, stories and history.
    I'm not buying and sampling so many these days and have learned what I like.
    So as it should be, now I spend more time working on my guitar (and flute) playing.

    I'm just as happy to play and show off my old well played '60 Guild T-50 as anything else I have. Its fun to watch how such a modest "student" guitar surprises visiting players in a very positive way. People want to take it home...but its worth a lot to keep and not enough to sell!

  26. #75

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by P.J.
    I think the obsession with gear minutia is quite silly. You would not ask a neighbor who has a great lawn what kind of mower he or she uses. Or what kind of oil he or she uses in said mower.
    I got asked this question just this week by the adjacent property owner, it wasn't because my "lawn" looks great it was because we both have a lot of grass to cut (5 acres+). And one should check the forums on lawn mowing e.g. LawnSite, one would find a lot of similar discussions. I had to replace my old lawn tractor this year and I spent more on this lawn mower than any guitar I've purchased in the past 20 years, its worth more than my truck. It pained me to spend this kind of money on a mower but it cut my mowing time from 5 hours to 3 and my back and butt were most appreciative.