Gibson L-5 Improvement

**sgosnell** · 07-21-2020, 03:06 PM

Stickers are very cheap and easy to make. Aging them can be a little bit of trouble, but it's not that hard.

**Jimmy Mack** · 07-21-2020, 07:55 PM

Herbie, I have rarely felt the need to remove p/up leads all the way at the pot, esp. with semi-hollow bodies that have no rear access panel. I have often just snipped. The downside is of course, that you end up with short(er) lengths of cable to work with, esp. when you want to re-install the same p/up!

This may not sound risky per se, but it is. Having to re-do a p/up removal, I then had to find an alternative way to re-join the wires, and in the process, melted something I shouldn't have, which then leads to another repair further along the chain, which leads to another, and then maybe another. Even with being careful.

So, if there is enough length to the p/up cable, and you are able to jockey it around (not always possible), you stand a better chance. If not, you have to dig deeper.

**Jimmy Mack** · 07-21-2020, 07:58 PM

Thanks roligen, that looks like a GREAT tool.

I live in NYC now, but I am originally from Buffalo, where i played many a gig in the 60's and 70's.

**Mark M.** · 07-21-2020, 08:09 PM

This thread has made me reevaluate the sound of my L5. As a result, I lowered the PUPs and did some tweaking of the EQ on my Henriksen Blu 10. The sound is much improved.

**sgosnell** · 07-21-2020, 08:59 PM

One person's 'much improved' is another's 'much worse'. But either way, experimenting with pickup height is worthwhile, and easy to do and easy to undo. All it takes is a small Philips screwdriver and enough sense to not back the screws completely out. Even then, it's recoverable.

**rolijen** · 07-22-2020, 12:58 AM

Originally Posted by Jimmy Mack

Thanks roligen, that looks like a GREAT tool.

I live in NYC now, but I am originally from Buffalo, where i played many a gig in the 60's and 70's.

We’re from Williamsville! How I miss that Beef on Weck!

**Jimmy Mack** · 07-26-2020, 06:03 PM

Well I finally had a block of free time to dedicate to the L5, anxious to get it back together, with the new and improved parts. Anxiety is high, but care is the word of the day. Slow and careful. It always seems that with any guitar I own, I feel the calling to make it better and as good as it can be, within reason. Most guitars need something, the way I see it, and if I can, I will try to improve them, as long as mods are reversible! After all, we are the "caretakers" of fine instruments.

My L5 is no exception. I wasn't digging the tone it was putting out when amplified. Acoustically it is great, but we all know that electronics can alter what we hear. I have tried many tweaks and turns, hoping not to have to go deeper.

So today, I followed rolijen's advice - installed the neck pickup of choice, and plugged straight in to the output jack and into the amp (with no pots yet installed). The Seth Lover I purchased is defective, yes, it has a short and cuts out - the lead wire is the problem. When you buy something, check it out immediately so you can return it if necessary. So my second p/up is a Seymour D. '59 humbucker. Wow................ just wow!

Now I know there are no pots hooked up, but the tone is glorious. Sweet highs and lows. Lively notes that sing, and chords that shimmer. Picking softly or using fingers, there is string definition. Chords speak. And when I dig in,
the guitar responds and delivers. I sound like I am strumming a harp!

And then to further test things out, I started tweaking my Princeton Reverb and the mid control that was installed.
I could not get a bad sound!

OK great, lets put the original p/up back in now. Oh........no. It brought back all the tones that I wanted to be free of. Darker, lifeless in comparison. I had to really work at getting a tone I liked, and even when I maxed it, I just wasn't inspired to play this guitar.

Next is the 57 Classic. It would not fit in the p/up rout, and I squeezed the cover along it's sides, but no go. I am not going to modify the body rout to accept a questionable p/up.

I will probably get the Seth Lover repaired, it's unfortunate, and then proceed. bUt the '59 is a winner so far. I think I am done with Gibson pickups and electronics, always a problem!!!

And also, with the SD '59 p/up, I could turn my amp's Treble and Bass to 0 an still get great tone! With the Mid control up around 7 -10. Adding Bass, did NOT muddy up the tone. Wow I am so surprised at this.

**Herbie** · 07-26-2020, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by Jimmy Mack

(...) It always seems that with any guitar I own, I feel the calling to make it better and as good as it can be, within reason. Most guitars need something, the way I see it, and if I can, I will try to improve them, as long as mods are reversible! After all, we are the "caretakers" of fine instruments. (...)

True words!

Happy to hear that You found a cure!

The mid control in Princeton is a great addition. Makes the amp much flexible.

**rolijen** · 07-26-2020, 06:56 PM

The SD 59 is also a great choice. Glad it works. Sorry that your SD Seth Lover is a dud. Disappointing.

I had a 59 a while back and would rank it up there close to the Seth. A little higher powered, but I had it in the bridge. If you love it, use it! It is a juicy fat choice. Also, glad you discovered that something is wrong with your Gibson shawbucker. You can store it away for collector value/OEM. Let’s hear that 59!

Roli

**Jabberwocky** · 07-26-2020, 08:10 PM

rolijen, what kind of quick connectors do you recommend?

**rolijen** · 07-26-2020, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky

rolijen, what kind of quick connectors do you recommend?

I don’t have any experience with going the quick connect route. I just try pickups before connecting them to the pots. I do it by soldering an output jack direct to the end of the pickup lead and then mount the pickup after fishing the wire out the treble side f-hole. Then, I plug a guitar cable into the hanging jack. Great way to test a pickup’s true uncolored character. U usually drape a polishing cloth under the wire and jack to protect the guitar finish.

Although I have gotten pretty good at building a ship in a bottle (fishing the pickups and harness through the bridge pickup route and then using dental floss and a hook to pull everything into place, etc,), I do not enjoy it. I love the results though. Always a thrill helping a good guitar become greater.

**Jimmy Mack** · 07-26-2020, 10:58 PM

I like the tone so much when the p/up is plugged straight in to the jack, I'm thinking about bypassing the volume/tone pots altogether! I have heard of others doing this. You just alter the tone at the amp.

Or should I go with 1 Meg. Ohms pots? Maybe I will just on the neck p/up - it probably makes more sense. That way I can alter the tone with the tone pot or by rolling back the volume pot. Hmmmmm?

**rolijen** · 07-26-2020, 11:37 PM

When the volume and tone caps are on 10 (tone cap bypassed fully), the impact on the pickup's tone will be negligible. More important is the taper of the volume pot and the wiring scheme (50s/vintage or Modern). I love the vintage wiring scheme with audio taper vol pots but many hate it as you lose 90% of the volume going from 10 to 7 on the volume control. I love it because rolling the knob just a touch takes the edge off and mellows the tone a bit. It works for me. YMMV.

**rolijen** · 07-27-2020, 12:17 AM

I forgot to ask which circuit Pete used for the harness he built for you, but the 500k Ohm pots will be perfect.

**Jimmy Mack** · 07-27-2020, 06:01 PM

Well, here is my experience. I have a Strat with some non-conventional wiring. I do have the bridge pickup hooked up to the "master tone control". But, the neck p/up has two options. One with the usual volume and tone pots in the circuit, and the other has the tone control knocked out of the circuit.
With the tone knob out of circuit, there is a very noticeable increase in Presence, meaning a fuller and brighter response. Useable ?? maybe - maybe not. But the tone pot even on 10 does allow some highs to go to ground, the volume pot is still in circuit in the aforementioned setup.

This is why I am tempted to bypass the pots. It is a beautiful sound. The L5 sounds like a guitar of the "Golden Age", responsive and rich. Which means that even if I turn treble way down, and bass way up for that muddy jazz tone, there are still highlights, shimmer and harmonics coming through, you know, like a very expensive guitar should sound.

**Gitfiddler** · 07-27-2020, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by Jimmy Mack

Well, here is my experience. I have a Strat with some non-conventional wiring. I do have the bridge pickup hooked up to the "master tone control". But, the neck p/up has two options. One with the usual volume and tone pots in the circuit, and the other has the tone control knocked out of the circuit.
With the tone knob out of circuit, there is a very noticeable increase in Presence, meaning a fuller and brighter response. Useable ?? maybe - maybe not. But the tone pot even on 10 does allow some highs to go to ground, the volume pot is still in circuit in the aforementioned setup.

This is why I am tempted to bypass the pots. It is a beautiful sound. The L5 sounds like a guitar of the "Golden Age", responsive and rich. Which means that even if I turn treble way down, and bass way up for that muddy jazz tone, there are still highlights, shimmer and harmonics coming through, you know, like a very expensive guitar should sound.

JM~ Your very clear explanation of how YOU like YOUR instruments to sound is why its best to experiment and gather information until things work for YOU. Everyone hears things differently and we each want our guitars to sound and play the way we want them to. Yours has been a journey well taken, especially if your L5 now sounds like a guitar of the "Golden Age". That really sounds like the perfect ending to your tone quest. Play that big girl in good health for many years.

**Jimmy Mack** · 07-27-2020, 10:22 PM

And then there are the "no load" pots!

**Jimmy Mack** · 09-06-2021, 05:53 PM

Well folks, it's been over a year, but hey, we're still here!

Since last posting, new Seth Lover p/ups have been installed, along with 500K pots and all is well. Without even adjusting p/up and pole heights, this guitar has taken on a new personality, one where a person doesn't want to stop playing it. Way...much better tone and response! in a word: "ALIVE"

But then other things pop-up. More playing calls to the fore a need for a set-up or something more. The 1st string seems too low, or the "low" frets of an L5 require a new set of player adjustments? Enter Ric McCurdy.

He analyzed and did a quick set up while I waited. He filed a saddle slot, adjusted the truss rod a touch, adjusted bridge height to suit, and did a quick intonation with new strings. Y'know, I could have done all that, but I thought it needed more, so I deferred to a Master. And ....learned a lot. He just knew where to look, what to do, and he had the ears plus the MOJO to make it happen.

**Jimmy Mack** · 09-06-2021, 06:08 PM

Today, I had more free time, decided to try out a wood saddle in place of the Tune-O-Matic bridge. Ric McCurdy offered to carve one for me, but gave me a spare to try out first. Options y'know. Strings are D'addario Chromes.

Well...call me a lucky SOB. This wooden bridge does wonders for the guitar. Acoustically and electronically. A smoother and fuller tone. Deeper but with less snap. In response, I found it more pleasing to pick softer and I was rewarded with a lovely lovely tone, single notes and esp. on chording.

My teacher, and Ric, both agreed that a wooden saddle would give me "more". But, I did not know more of what? Wow.

With an L5, I just didn't know what I didn't know.

**Djangorocks1** · 01-01-2023, 01:05 AM

Reading this post, I wondered if you considered to just hardwire the neckpu to the output and the bridge pu through the pots.
So you could set the bridge on 7 or 8 on both pots, and use the selector to switch for taste.

**Jimmy Mack** · 01-02-2023, 08:46 PM

No, but Thanks for your interesting your input.
I wanted to get the best ingredients for the guitar, and get it back together, without too much fussing and experimenting.
An L5 needs to be, well, intact, and not become a "project" guitar.
Plus, I am very happy with how it turned out.
Cheers and Happy New Year.