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  1. #1

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    Just a silly quick question .. A quick opinion, nothing too serious


    I enjoy having my Tele strung with thinner strings, so I also have the option of doing (pedal) bends and behind the nut shenanigans.


    So I've been on the lookout for another Tele to set up with thicker strings or even flats. Sadly enough I've seen no Tele for sale at a realistic price the last six months (I'm have no intention of buying new)

    Now a 65 avri Strat has appeared at a decent price as has caught my eye. Normally I wouldn't be too thrilled with a 7.25" radius, but given a jazz set up with thick strings, it doesn't matter all that much and as I remember the '65 avri does actually sound good.


    I don't see many of you guys playing Strats, but you're all very fond of your Teles


    So what do you say, get the Strat or continue being patient waiting for a Tele?
    Last edited by Lobomov; 05-20-2020 at 01:23 PM.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Hi,
    If you like the strat and it's a good price ... buy it!

    [why not?!]

  4. #3

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    Strats don’t have the neck pickup sound like a tele. The tele is compressed and even. Even single coil. So a tele can go jazz box to twang machine....

    Strats don’t do this. if you want a strat sound, buy strat, because that’s what strats do. They can’t do anything else. But if that’s you want nothing else does it .

  5. #4

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    Nir Felder uses a Mexican strat, cheapo one. He leans into that sound.

  6. #5

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    My strat doesn't get great jazz tones, but i have a superstrat style Ibanez with humbuckers that works great...
    a strat with a single coil sized humbucker will work, for jazz, rock, anything, but you lose that funk neck pickup sound

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Strats don’t have the neck pickup sound like a tele. The tele is compressed and even. Even single coil. So a tele can go jazz box to twang machine....

    Strats don’t do this. if you want a strat sound, buy strat, because that’s what strats do. They can’t do anything else. But if that’s you want nothing else does it .
    Very true. But a listen to some of Ry Cooder's work reveals a jazzy tone of its own, equally glorious. The Strat's superb ergonomics is a plus, in addition, also, to boot.

    Flats on a Strat with a rosewood board is simply scrumptious. I reverse the pickups on mine so that the shortest magnets are under the E and A rather than the B and high E, a trick I got from Jerry Donahue, IIRC. Works for me.

  8. #7

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    Jens Larsen talks here about getting a jazz tone out of a Stratocaster.



    I had a Strat for years and sometimes miss it. Christian is right: it's not a Tele and won't ever be one. But Strats do a lot of great things, esp for R&B, soul, blues, and hybrids of those (plus rock of course).

    Thaddeus Hogarth (Berklee faculty) plays a Strat. I think he started doing this when he was in a band with a lot of horns. He needed something that would cut through when he soloed.

    This is an instructional bit but you can hear a Strat tone that cuts a fairly wide path.



    The Tone Power of the Stratocaster – Berklee Online Take Note

  9. #8

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    I might add that I’m a bit skeptical about the idea of a ‘jazz tone’ - but the strat doesn’t easily provide the stereotype idea of a jazz tone.

    otoh a danelectro...

  10. #9

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    I've heard great jazz tones from Strats. They're pretty damned versatile, too.

  11. #10

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  12. #11

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    weird, all these examples of strat tone, while they play fine, the tone is not good in any of them to me
    i'll take good playing over good tone usually

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    I was gonna suggest this video myself. Noiseless pickups seem to get jazz tones very well. Lorne Lofsky's soft touch is also helping to keep the twang in check.

  14. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    I was gonna suggest this video myself. Noiseless pickups seem to get jazz tones very well. Lorne Lofsky's soft touch is also helping to keep the twang in check.

    Noiseless do have an extra coil .. but I'm looking at an '65 avri and not an deluxe/elite/whatever version

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    Noiseless do have an extra coil .. but I'm looking at an '65 avri and not an deluxe/elite/whatever version
    True but the pickup issue isn't tied to a strat being deluxe/elite etc. It's a simple customization option.

  16. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    True but the pickup issue isn't tied to a strat being deluxe/elite etc. It's a simple customization option.

    Ahh yes ... I'm not keen on going that way ... It's an investment in an extra pup or three and if I realize I'm not happy after the summer, I gotta wire it back as the guitar community are purist and would shy away from a '65 avri with noiseless pups .. etc .. Then I'm stuck with a set of pups that I don't need. We are a small country and gear does not flow all that quickly here, so finding and flipping a set of noiseless pups is not all that easy.

    I'd rather prefer to wait for a deluxe or elite strat then .. Which I might, so thanks for your suggestions

    (or maybe that Tele will show up first)

  17. #16

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    I had a couple of 62RI Strats that sounded great with flats for jazz. Every bit as good as the 52RE Teles did.

  18. #17

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    I’ve had two MIM Strats, an American Strat and a franken-Strat over the years and while they were all great for funk/r&b, I wouldn’t trade my cheap CV Squier Tele for all four of em. Middle position on the Tele gets into the soul/funk territory enough for me and the jazz tone on the Tele is great.

    But, there’s really something special, for me, about position 2 on a well-sorted Strat, so I see how I might like to have another one one day...just not in place of the Telecaster.

  19. #18
    Sure. Try it. Im not a Stratocaster fanatic really, but I have to admit that I envy how easy you can reach higher frets. Those things are pretty comfortable to play.

  20. #19

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    I've done all kinds of things to my Strat in order to get it closer to an archtop sound for sneaky night-time recording. Never going to happen.

    Get another Tele.

  21. #20

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    This vs. that ---that vs. this
    I love Strats, and I love Teles, but I never had a jazz feel for my Strats. And I say this after comparing them side by side. The Strats have had a more metallic sound (and as a result, in feel). I never put flats on a Strat or a Tele - I never saw the sense in that for my ears. They are more rock and blues machines for me. BUT....when I play my Tele with round wounds, I get a whole different vibe from my Strat, and that vibe can easily be applied to playing jazz, twangy if I want, but its also deep and resonant.

    If you want the jazzier tone, wait for a Tele. If you want variety, buy the Strat. You can always unload the Strat if not happy, no?

  22. #21

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    I have a Strat which sounds great for jazz; I also have two Teles. In all three cases I have the same pickup in the neck: the Bill Lawrence (Wilde) L280.

    Noisefree Strat – Bill and Becky Wilde Pickups

    Tonally it is, like the ad says, maybe a little closer to a "P90 lite" than it is to a Strat pickup. It doesn't have that glassiness, which I don't care for anyway. It is a stacked humbucker which I like better than side-by-side humbuckers- the little bit of phase cancellation that PAF style pickups have isn't as noticeable. The L280 doesn't have the P90 growl as such, it's more bell-like. It's also very responsive to touch, knob adjustments and the underlying sound of the instrument.

    Replacing one pickup is much easier to reverse if you want to sell the guitar later on.

  23. #22

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    the guy who wrote the book on jazz guitar..2 volumes actually! haha

    the great mickey baker


    Strat Instead of Tele?-mickey-baker-zanzie-versailles-s-jpg

    a well set up strat can do just about anything...

    sink that neck pup into the body and roll back the guitar knobs



    cheers

  24. #23

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    Also-





    And there is a video of an organ trio on YouTube where the guitarist is playing a Strat; from the looks of it this was taped back in the 60s. For the life of me I can't remember the name of the organ player or the guitarist but somebody else here will know what clip I'm referring to. Looks like a Strat, sounds like an L5 and he's using the bridge pick up!

  25. #24

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    Possibly Jimmy Smith (Jazz 625) with Quentin Warren on guitar?


  26. #25

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    I have a Strat.

    Here's why. I went to a jam. Other guitarist played an Eric Johnson model Strat into a Victoria amp. Sounded brilliant.

    I plugged my D'Angelico 2009 EXDC in his amp and it sounded exactly like me. I concluded it was the guitar. At that moment, I loved his tone and hated mine.

    So, I got a Strat and used it for awhile. Long enough to conclude I prefer a 12" radius and a thicker sound in the upper register without adding distortion. I tried it with a Lil 59 HB in the neck position. This didn't quite give the Gibson jazz tone, but it did stop the Strat from doing what it did best.

    Next jam, the same guy showed up with a 335 and sounded just as good. He's also brought a Tele and a gypsy jazz guitar of some kind. He always sounds good.

    More recently, I usually bring (well, back before covid) a Comins GCS-1 to gigs, but at home, I tend to play a Yamaha Stat copy, the Pacifica 012, which now has the Lil 59 in the neck position.

    I'd express the moral of the story this way: At a wine tasting, don't spend too much energy worrying about the glass.

  27. #26

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    I taught myself how to play jazz on a Telecaster, but all the jazz I've performed (and continued to learn) for the last 30+ years has been on my Stratocaster.

    You can make a Strat approach the sound and tone of an L5 if you can do these things:

    Set the guitar tone controls wide open and shape the tone with the amp by maxing the mids and putting the amp's treble and bass tones all the way down.

    Use the neck pickup and turn the volume on the guitar just slightly down enough to knock off any steely metallic tone (which is going to be strongest out of the B string up around the 10-12th fret area, so test there).

    Use the 2nd input (-6dB) on the amp, try to use an amp with 12 inch speakers, and place the amp on the floor, not a stand.

    Turn the amp up a little louder than you think you need, hold your pick kind of loosely, and play light and easy... you don't want any twang or snap or other over excitement. Don't pluck the strings - just push the pick against the string until it lets go of the pick, letting it release by rolling off the string. The release between the pick and string is where at least half of the jazz tone comes on a Strat; the rest is the other details.

    This may take a while to develop because the traditional jazz tone is descended from fat tight strings played rather firmly on an electrified acoustic jazz box, which naturally absorbs and otherwise modifies the attack and sustain profile. To mimic that sound and tone you really have to back off on a solid body and let a mid range sounding amp carry the level and tone.

  28. #27

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    One of the best jazz sound I've managed to have is with a Jimmie Vaughan Strat, Tex Mex neck pickup. But that's the smokey sound I hear in my head. Just listen to Stevie Ray Vaughan's "Chitlin Con Carne" interpretation, that's the sound.
    Just a man and his guitar, whatever it is

  29. #28
    Big thank you for all your thoughts, greatly appreciated.


    Unfortunately seller apparently has decided that his 5 year old avri is a precious one .. You know .. being out of production and all .. So he's jacked up the price to something that resembles what they where sold for new, which .. yeah well .. no way

    Oh well .. The GAS continues to smoulder and might strike again ..

  30. #29

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    it works for Chris Crocco.

    Honestly, if you can get a sound you like from a tele, getting one from a strat shouldn't be that difficult. They're different, but not all that far removed.




  31. #30

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    I've had my strat for close to 20 years and find it to be more tonally versatile than most guitars, I get whatever sound I need out of it. Comfiest guitar ever made.

    Jazz tone? Check this guy...

    Last edited by cosmic gumbo; 06-07-2020 at 02:12 AM.

  32. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cunamara
    I have a Strat which sounds great for jazz; I also have two Teles. In all three cases I have the same pickup in the neck: the Bill Lawrence (Wilde) L280.

    Noisefree Strat – Bill and Becky Wilde Pickups

    Tonally it is, like the ad says, maybe a little closer to a "P90 lite" than it is to a Strat pickup. It doesn't have that glassiness, which I don't care for anyway. It is a stacked humbucker which I like better than side-by-side humbuckers- the little bit of phase cancellation that PAF style pickups have isn't as noticeable. The L280 doesn't have the P90 growl as such, it's more bell-like. It's also very responsive to touch, knob adjustments and the underlying sound of the instrument.

    Replacing one pickup is much easier to reverse if you want to sell the guitar later on.
    +1 for stacked humbuckers. Whilst I can’t get a good jazz sound out of my CS 1961 strat, the stacked humbuckers on my 1986 Charvel Model 4 superstrat give a good sound, particularly when on-board midboost is engaged.

  33. #32

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  34. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    I've had my strat for close to 20 years and find it to be more tonally versatile than most guitars, I get whatever sound I need out of it. Comfiest guitar ever made.

    Jazz tone?

    I wonder if he used a pick and played in a style that used more dynamics, say hard bop, would they still sound close?

  35. #34

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    I have a stock '89 American Standard strat (9.5" neck radius, pups are a little higher output and more mid-rangey than most of the "reissue" style pups). I play jazz with it. It sounds different from my hollow body and my semi-hollow, which sound different from each other. It sounds different from Teles. The differences can be made to be pretty subtle, depending on your setup and how you play, but the differences will always be there to some extent. Isn't that the point of there being different kinds of guitars?

    But I do think that strats are somewhat less foolproof than the others. I can plug my semi-hollow into pretty much any amp, and without touching any knobs, a jazz tone will be more or less there (though it can be improved with knob tweaking). OTOH, my strat generally requires more attention for getting the mids dialed in and the highs tamed, and sometimes I can't make it work to my satisfaction (e.g., through a Roland JC). There's also a characteristic strat nick pickup resonant frequency (or something like that) that can never be completely dialed out, so if you like that, a strat is great. If you don't, it's not. Ergonomically, my strat is my favorite guitar. And it's got a whammy bar.

    John

  36. #35

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    Forum member and instructor Pete Sklaroff on a strat: (02:25 is the most jazzy tone on this imo, go there)


  37. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    I was gonna suggest this video myself. Noiseless pickups seem to get jazz tones very well. Lorne Lofsky's soft touch is also helping to keep the twang in check.

    Yes, and the low noise level allows his soft touch to be better heard.

    Doug
    Last edited by Doug B; 05-11-2020 at 04:59 PM.

  38. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    Forum member and instructor Pete Sklaroff on a strat: (02:25 is the most jazzy tone on this imo, go there)
    I hear a touch if that Strat sizzle on top, but I still like it. Maybe I’ll pull mine out of the case for a while.

  39. #38

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    Strat Instead of Tele?-184135-9bb7ef09a54a204620571a75a1a79b59-jpg

    fake but fun

    cheers

  40. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    I've had my strat for close to 20 years and find it to be more tonally versatile than most guitars, I get whatever sound I need out of it. Comfiest guitar ever made.

    Jazz tone?

    Both guitars sound great and I didn't notice when you changed guitars, since I happened to be looking away.

    Great playing too.

  41. #40

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    Rumour has it that Django and Jimi were going to form a group and call it Band of Gypsies! <groan!>

  42. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by neatomic
    Strat Instead of Tele?-184135-9bb7ef09a54a204620571a75a1a79b59-jpg

    fake but fun

    cheers
    Bireli Lagrene has used a P-90 equipped Strat style guitar for jazz gigs (both Gypsy jazz and straight ahead jazz) many, many times.

  43. #42

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    I still have it in the back of my head to build a strat project with a Duncan Minibucker in the bridge and neck, and no middle, with a hardtail bridge for playing jazz. Alder body, RW board. Trouble is I have so many guitars. Maybe when this Covid thing they have going ends I'll sell a guitar or two and do it.

  44. #43

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    Lace Alumitones are very quiet and full-range balanced also:


  45. #44
    The suit doesn't make the man

    I used t to play a strat and it sounded great I had 13 flats on it I think it has more to do with your response time and the response time you want

    To me strats have a higher top speed but can't corner to well

    I felt like I had to hold a note longer to get a nice snappy tone because to my ears strats take longer to swell and archtops to me instantly play the note but decay really fast

    There's a vid of Joe Pass playing a jazzmaster I've never played one but tone wise it sounds the same I think

  46. #45

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    If you have a good deal on a good Strat do try it. You might be positively surprised and you might even like playing so much that you find your own new signature sound in there by experimenting a bit with picking technique and pickup\amp settings. If it doesn't work you can relatively easily sell a Strat again.

  47. #46

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    IME what makes the tele special is that even with the fewer controls the expression can go from soft ear caressing to glass cutting. Expression of a Strat I find narrower but more refined. Both are inspiring to play - but different. A big bonus for the strat is the ergonometry.

  48. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by xiv_R_A_I_D_E_R_
    The suit doesn't make the man

    I used t to play a strat and it sounded great I had 13 flats on it I think it has more to do with your response time and the response time you want

    To me strats have a higher top speed but can't corner to well

    I felt like I had to hold a note longer to get a nice snappy tone because to my ears strats take longer to swell and archtops to me instantly play the note but decay really fast

    There's a vid of Joe Pass playing a jazzmaster I've never played one but tone wise it sounds the same I think
    That's a Jaguar, not a Jazzmaster. Neither sounds the same as a Strat. But broadly speaking, there's some similarity between any two solidbody guitars with a single coil neckup.

    John

  49. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by teeps
    A big bonus for the strat is the ergonometry.
    The big knurled knobs of the Tele make it easier to make anything from a fine adjustment to a wide sweep without disrupting picking than those little knobs on the Strat. I was tempted to change the knobs on the Strat, but that seemed like heresy.

  50. #49

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    "Strat instead of tele?"



    I play both. I take periods where i play more strat and other periods where I play more tele (but my main guitar is a 175).

    A tele is probably better than a strat to play in a more "old school" jazz guitar style (Wes, Grant Green. etc)
    While a strat is a good option for a more modern jazz guitar style (a tele is great for that too, but a strat does it in its own way).

    Also you don't need to pay so much for a great strat/tele. MIM and upper range Squier are really good instruments and you can do several upgrades (like pickups) relatively easily.
    Last edited by orri; 05-18-2020 at 08:35 AM.

  51. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    That's a Jaguar, not a Jazzmaster. Neither sounds the same as a Strat. But broadly speaking, there's some similarity between any two solidbody guitars with a single coil neckup.
    actually there's pics of joe pass with both the jaguar and the jazzmaster...neither of which were really his..they were synanon instruments, when he was in for the cure...

    jaguar has short scale..24"...has very snappy attack...has similar to tele or strat bridge pup tone

    jazzmaster on the other hand was leo's true attempt at a jazz guitar...the jazzmaster name was no accident...jazzmaster pickups are based on p90's but with (leo twist) real magnet polepieces like strats and tele pups...probably one of my fave pups of all time...warm, clean. lush, thick...beautiful...the jm neck pup also has two separate sets of controls...with different pots and caps...so you can go from neck pup to completely different neck pup sound at the flick of a switch...my fave fender in general, but great for jazz tones...& beyond

    cheers

    ps- jp with jm

    Strat Instead of Tele?-big_joephoto1-jpeg