The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    I'm assuming you mean 18" cutaways, I can only think of Kenny Burrell recordings off hand as far as prominent New Yorker players and there a couple videos of early Benson playing one in France iirc,and Grant Green playing his D'Aquisto, these are almost all electric recordings
    there are several prominent guys that used 17" cutaways, be they Excels, New Yorker Specials etc [all the same guitars except for appointments/trim]
    For those guitars listen to some old Johnny Smith, Chuck Wayne, Mundell Lowe, Billy Bauer, John Collins etc on youtube if you don't own the records.
    but those are mostly electric/floating pu recordings, very little in the way of acoustic cutaway D'Angelico or D'Aquisto recordings, Jim Hall did a couple tunes on his 17" D'Aquisto
    there's a video of a guy playing an Excel acoustically @ retrofret in NY.


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  3. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by wintermoon
    I'm assuming you mean 18" cutaways, I can only think of Kenny Burrell recordings off hand as far as prominent New Yorker players and there a couple videos of early Benson playing one in France iirc,...etc
    Thanks! Just wondering which exact recordings? I had heard from various sources that those players did play D'Angelicos but im just unsure which exact records. No need to take much of your time and research for me but if you know any particular records that a D'A New Yorker with a floater (for instance) was played on, think you could drop the Artist and Album name? thank you kindly!
    Really appreciate your help!

    I think i've just about watched each and every video on a vintage cutaway D'Angelico and D'Aquisto currently on youtube but the one you posted is certainly a great one!

  4. #28

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    Forget about bullshit videos.
    Forget about offishul recordings - plenty of classic and great-sounding ones by our guitar heroes from, but too many other variables.
    It's about what the guitars sound like and feel like when one plays them oneself.
    That's where the rubber hits the road.
    IMO, YMMV and so forth,

  5. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammertone
    Forget about bullshit videos.
    Forget about offishul recordings - plenty of classic and great-sounding ones by our guitar heroes from, but too many other variables.
    It's about what the guitars sound like and feel like when one plays them oneself.
    That's where the rubber hits the road.
    IMO, YMMV and so forth,
    Please do us all a favor and perhaps read a given post before commenting on it.. I already acknowledged all of these points. You neither contributed a recording nor made a useful comment. Please by all means comment an Artist, Album or Artist and Song and if it was a D'Aquisto or Angelico New Yorker. Thank you!

  6. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by hot ford coupe
    The very reason that you picked the D'Aquisto is exactly why D'Angelico made the later guitars as he did. Some of them had thicker tops and other parts to help eliminate feedback which would happen with the type of guitar I would choose. Every guitar that John or Jimmy made was built with what the player had in mind etc..
    Really enjoyed your comments and would love to send you a DM regarding your knowledge/insights! I do agree with many things you mentioned - I just didnt know to what extent D'Angelico New Yorkers varied based on the player. Were most of them in the Later Half of the 50's X braced or Parallel braced? The consensus seems to be that parallel projects outwardly more and X bracing is more delicate and has more sustain + complex overtones (supposedly.. of course there are many many other factors) but what factors on the general NY design would they change for the players apart from Neck thickness and potentially bracing? Top thickness? Not sure. Thanks! Excuse the ignorance.. I frankly havent studied any bit of lutherie nor have I read much about the manner in which these two fine builders would modify their general flagship design.

  7. #31

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    I did read your posts. I don't have to post what you want me to post. My comment was self-evidently not useful. And I'm not wearing any pants.

  8. #32
    As you wish. ill just Ignore the comments I find irrelevant and or redundant next time. Thanks.

  9. #33

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    Have you checked out the various clips that Norm Harris has on youtube : fleet-fingered virtuosos on high-$$ archtops, filmed with cheap lenses and still cheaper microphones. I doubt that ANY such clip is an earnest representation of the true tonal qualities of ANY such guitar. I've played one of Mr. Burrell's D'Angelico's when he had it for sale at Mandolin Bros many years ago and
    IIRC it was a late 50's New Yorker in sunburst (US $ 45.000). Unplugged it did not really blow me away with it's flatwound strings and low action but through an amp the combo guitar/DeArmond 1100 pickup was IT as far as copping that classic Bop/Cool/50's / 60's jazz guitar tone. Same can be said about my '63 Super-400C with the same pickup : meh unplugged, a bomb plugged in. Unfortunately it was unusable on stage at any normal playing volume so it had to go....

    Anyone who can differentiate
    BY EAR ALONE between a decent Gibson (or any other in that category) archtop/DeArmond combo and either a D'Angelico or early D'Aquisto/DeArmond with a comparable setup has my utmost respect ....

    Re your search for D'A recodings I'd also look into Hank Garland, Chet Atkins, Mark Elf, Gene Bertoncini, John Pisano, ...
    Trouble is : they used ELECTRIFIED versions - I've never heard any of them playing their archtops un-amplified. I also don't blame them since to my ears nothing beats the pure acoustic tone of a good nylonstring guitar. An electrified archtop comes in a close second
    Of course, when you plan on laying down 4 to the bar in a swing band then you need the big box guitars with heavy strings, high action and thick picks (and an iron fist left hand). It's not a particularly "beautiful" sound but a D'Angelico New Yorker would be really good at it ....
    Good luck in hunting your holy grail guitar !

  10. #34

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    My brother recorded a cd a few years ago, playing two guitars - a D’Angelico and a D’Aquisto. The D’Angelico is a mid-1950’s 17” cutaway Excel with a De-Armond Rhythm Chief. It was used on all of the electric guitar tracks. The D’Aquisto is a 17” fully acoustic cutaway Excel from around 1990 (originally commissioned by by fellow forum member QAMan). It was used on the acoustic tracks. I’m not promoting his recording, but it does include samples of what you are asking about. You can listen to it here:
    Please Play Again by Glenn Murch on Spotify
    Keith

  11. #35

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    From what I've learned, read, heard and experienced over the past 40 years (being interested in/playing archtop guitars),
    in particular re these two builders, I would say that they treated each guitar as a singular "event", striving for what they thought of the best tone and response, choosing the wood and the relative proportions/measurements thereof accordingly.
    When George Benson had Jimmy D'A make him a guitar he in all likelihood did not ask him to make it the loudest possible
    guitar but one that played the easiest, with a perfectly balanced sound and a noble and elegant look.....

    From Irving Sloane's book (found that in '76 ...) :

  12. #36

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    Oh my God what treasure that album is.
    The amplified D’Angelico nails the sound I lust for. QA’s Guitar deserved to be immortalized in a great record like this, because it wasn’t just a master building a guitar for a customer. He was building it for a friend.
    Keith, please tell your brother he has a fan in me on the forum. Outstanding stuff.
    To the OP, these are some great threads. I wish I was in your shoes. Best of luck to you. You really can’t miss the Mark with either guitar.
    Joe D

  13. #37

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    Most, if not all, of the Johnny Smith recordings on Roost Records recorded on one of two or three D'Angelicos. After 1960 there was the Gibson Johnny Smith, based in large part on his 1955 D'Angelico (in my opinion the single finest jazz guitar ever made). He still used it on occasion later in his career:



    and the concert from which that came:



    I don't know any specific D'Aquisto carved top recordings, but Keith's brother's recording- holy smokes. There are recordings by Jim Hall, Joe Pass and Gene Bertoncini on D'Aquisto "electric" archtops with laminate bodies.

  14. #38

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    I have an elementary question. Are vintage D'Aquisto and D'Angelico guitars basically "boutique" versions of vintage (more acoustic) Gibson archtops?

  15. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cunamara
    Most, if not all, of the Johnny Smith recordings on Roost Records recorded on one of two or three D'Angelicos. After 1960 there was the Gibson Johnny Smith, based in large part on his 1955 D'Angelico (in my opinion the single finest jazz guitar ever made). He still used it on occasion later in his career:



    and the concert from which that came:



    I don't know any specific D'Aquisto carved top recordings, but Keith's brother's recording- holy smokes. There are recordings by Jim Hall, Joe Pass and Gene Bertoncini on D'Aquisto "electric" archtops with laminate bodies.
    I have played JOhnny's D'angelico at his shop in 1979. It was amazing not a huge loud guitar but balanced voice with even sound up and down. Oh to have had that day videoed.

  16. #40

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    If you've checked out most of the videos on YouTube you've gotten the majority of the available recordings.
    But so very hard to know from recordings, really you need to play one in person and decide, good luck.

  17. #41

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    You really must play a D'angelico for yourself in the appropriate setting to really get the picture. However no matter what is said it is very hard to get past any personal bias.. When you pick a D'a and play it for awhile and determine it is a nice guitar then all the bells ring and the head gets too much confusion. After this experience you may very well pick up an ordinary GIbson L7 acoustic and sit with it awhile. It may very well sound as good possible better or in some fashion on par with the D'a in terms of sound and playability. But then your head and eyes get in the way and you don't see the Art Deco, the history, the players, and the mystic of a real D'angelico. It then becomes a very good Gibson L7 that is a great guitar but not a D'angelico.

    This my friends becomes the problem or should I say the whole issue of one guitar verses another. Magic happens and we just don't understand it completely or fail to see it. The reality is the what inspires a player and causes them to pick up a guitar to make sound. Just a point in fact. I bought a 2005 Super 400CES, the first CES I have ever owned 6 months ago because I wanted one and it was perfect. It was not my usual acoustic archtop with a floater so I play it plugged in the amp. The neck is great the workmanship is as good as I have seen in a factory guitar or handmade. This guitar inspired me to play more and spend time especially the first 3 months, I went at the guitar daily for good spell. Well it is not a Dangelico but equally it inspired me to play like my D'a......................Plugged in this guitar just smokes!

    Find the guitar that does this for you and buy it............they can't bottle it in pills and it has zero to do with investing as guitars are terrible investments.

  18. #42

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    Joe and Keith,
    Nice to hear some recordings of my 91 D’Aquisto - it’s a fine guitar and Jim D’Aquisto was a close friend. Thank goodness my supportive wife took the time to video several of my visits during the build.

    It was only a matter of time before I acquired another D’Aquisto - and I’m thoroughly enjoying my current 77’ New Yorker Special- which is in original near mint condition. This was my step Dads guitar - and my Mom captured video of this build as well - with Jimmy himself playing the guitar. It was sold to Gary Larsen, then a collector in Austin where I flew down to get it back.

    To the Op- I have some acoustic iPhone recordings of my 77’ if your interested. You cannot go wrong with either guitar , but please be aware that D’Aquistos from the 80’s were known to develop deteriorating binding , so look carefully for this condition.
    As the binding gases out it stains the guitar - and a total rebind is 4-6k.

    Good luck on your decision

  19. #43

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    One final thought from me, I'm guessing you don't have a lot of examples to play in person so when the smoke clears I'd suggest a trip to Rudy's in NY.
    Will probably answer some of your questions.

  20. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by QAman
    ...., but please be aware that D’Aquistos from the 80’s were known to develop deteriorating binding , so look carefully for this condition.
    As the binding gases out it stains the guitar - and a total rebind is 4-6k.
    I witnessed a total overhaul on one D'Quisto that my luthier performed in his small shop. Took forever, and the customer was constantly riding him to make quick work of it. He obviously couldn't, and bore the consequences heroically. He did a fantastic job. I felt like I was in a sacred chapel when I visited him and he was officiating some rite.

    Can't imagine having your personal experience with the master Steve!

  21. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by skykomishone
    I witnessed a total overhaul on one D'Quisto that my luthier performed in his small shop. Took forever, and the customer was constantly riding him to make quick work of it. He obviously couldn't, and bore the consequences heroically. He did a fantastic job. I felt like I was in a sacred chapel when I visited him and he was officiating some rite.

    Can't imagine having your personal experience with the master Steve!
    Steve,
    It was a very special time of my life. Im re -living it with Bryant Trenier - who has developed the skill and ear to reproduce the D'Aquisto sound. In fact, when my wife heard the non cut Excel available at Bryants shop yesterday she said " buy it". She is my guiding light with these guitars....and has the best sense of sound. She knows exactly what guitar im playing from several rooms away.

    I apologize to the Op for getting away from purely recording posts- but discussing the history is contagious.

    Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

  22. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by wintermoon
    One final thought from me, I'm guessing you don't have a lot of examples to play in person so when the smoke clears I'd suggest a trip to Rudy's in NY.
    Will probably answer some of your questions.
    >> Lawrence Wexer in NYC

  23. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    I have an elementary question. Are vintage D'Aquisto and D'Angelico guitars basically "boutique" versions of vintage (more acoustic) Gibson archtops?
    Possibly and it really was the personal experience the player could have with getting a guitar. The early D'angelicos were also made for stores and much like production of a small guitar manufacturing operation. Later as knowledge and crafts go John went to probably all individual orders after WWII. The thing is that in both John and Jimmy's case the prices they charged were competitive with Gibson. Later as Jimmy got much more praise and exposure his prices did go up considerably. But in the late 60s and much of the 70's Jimmy was making guitars for well known studio guitarist. They had the money and work, plus they could get exactly what they wanted and no one else was making those guitars at least to the extent like today.

    From 1962-1980 these are the archtop makers that were building guitars at least to some level not just one off. I am sure i am might be leaving off a couple but certainly no other makers were build archtops exclusive in numbers. Benedetto started in 1968 and Barker started in 1962 or close. Bill Barker corresponded with John D'angelico mostly about getting suppliers and where to get wood. He learned the trade from Carl Albanus who allowed him to sort of apprentice as such. Bill Barker was by trade a cabinet maker and taught industrial technology as a public school teacher. He already had most of the woodworking skills needed he just learn how to apply them to making archtop guitar. Carl made his guitars in Chicago. Barker made his in Toledo Ohio and mostly around Peoria Illinois area.

    John Dangelico
    Jimmy D'aquisto
    Bill Barker, built about 110-120
    Carl Albanus Johnson ( used middle name for guitars) guessing at around 60-70 guitars
    Carl Barney
    Bob Benedetto


    So to answer the question are they boutique guitars. Not by the exact definition or thought process we use today but similar. I added these makers to the thread because it points out that at one time archtops were really only made by a handful of individuals that you could almost count on one hand.

    Feel free to add any names I might have missed and I am leaving Europe out of the picture.

  24. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by deacon Mark
    Possibly and it really was the personal experience the player could have with getting a guitar. The early D'angelicos were also made for stores and much like production of a small guitar manufacturing operation. Later as knowledge and crafts go John went to probably all individual orders after WWII. The thing is that in both John and Jimmy's case the prices they charged were competitive with Gibson. Later as Jimmy got much more praise and exposure his prices did go up considerably. But in the late 60s and much of the 70's Jimmy was making guitars for well known studio guitarist. They had the money and work, plus they could get exactly what they wanted and no one else was making those guitars at least to the extent like today.

    From 1962-1980 these are the archtop makers that were building guitars at least to some level not just one off. I am sure i am might be leaving off a couple but certainly no other makers were build archtops exclusive in numbers. Benedetto started in 1968 and Barker started in 1962 or close. Bill Barker corresponded with John D'angelico mostly about getting suppliers and where to get wood. He learned the trade from Carl Albanus who allowed him to sort of apprentice as such. Bill Barker was by trade a cabinet maker and taught industrial technology as a public school teacher. He already had most of the woodworking skills needed he just learn how to apply them to making archtop guitar. Carl made his guitars in Chicago. Barker made his in Toledo Ohio and mostly around Peoria Illinois area.

    John Dangelico
    Jimmy D'aquisto
    Bill Barker, built about 110-120
    Carl Albanus Johnson ( used middle name for guitars) guessing at around 60-70 guitars
    Carl Barney
    Bob Benedetto


    So to answer the question are they boutique guitars. Not by the exact definition or thought process we use today but similar. I added these makers to the thread because it points out that at one time archtops were really only made by a handful of individuals that you could almost count on one hand.

    Feel free to add any names I might have missed and I am leaving Europe out of the picture.
    Elmer Stromberg

  25. #49

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    But are they generally Gibson clones with custom "improvements"? Like boutique 20 watt handwired Princeton's with effects loops and mid controls. Or are they alternative designs to vintage Gibsons?

  26. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    But are they generally Gibson clones with custom "improvements"? Like boutique 20 watt Princeton's with effects loops and mid controls. Or are they alternative designs to vintage Gibsons?
    I think of all three of my vintage D'Angelicos as superb examples of a non-cut acoustic L-5.