The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #176

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    I sure loved the one I had. Chrome 11’s and the tone rolled down to about 70%. I’ve never owned a more comfortable guitar. My CV Tele, which has been my go-to for a minute, is close, but it’s heavy. I found the P90 on the KP sounded pretty damned good through my Katana 100w and when running direct into my DAW/Amplitube. Keep experimenting with it!

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #177

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    That is a nice guitar. I’ve had 2 5th Avenues. My current one (acoustic) has a floater, and I use D’A Pure Nickel 11’s on it.

    If it has P90 pickups, I don’t think they’re height-adjustable, except by shimming. One thing to note is are you getting ground level hum due to old wiring? Common with P90’s and kills the tone 100%. I have an EHX Hum Debugger which takes care of that.

    I agree with trying a thick pick—Dunlap green or blue work for me.

    Try playing around with the settings...sometimes volume up for guitar down for amp, sometimes vice versa work better.

    Of course try a different amp if you can. Mine have always sounded good through both SS acoustic amps and tube amps.

    Anyway, good luck...if you don’t want it, I MIGHT be willing to take it off your hands!

  4. #178

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    I have had several 5th Avenues, in different configurations, and they're very versatile guitars. The P90 version is great, but the top end can be bright, even with a "jazz" amp, like a Polytone. For my one-pickup Kingpin, I usually start with the guitar tone knob all the way down and dial in the treble, as opposed to starting with the knob wide open and dialing out the treble. It winds up about halfway.

  5. #179

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    Another single P90 Kingpinner here ... I usually have the tone rolled about halfway down on mine. I mainly use a SF Fender amp and digital models of either BF or SF amps (not sure what settings the OP is using on his Line6). Anyway, one of the tone secrets with these Fender amps is understanding that the "flat" setting for the tone controls is with bass and treble both turned all the way down (and mid control on 5, if there is one). If you're starting with the treble control on a Fender amp (or digital model of one) in the center of its range (5 on an actual amp), you're already deep into icepick-in-the-eardrum territory with most single-coil pickups. So step one is find "flat" with whatever amp/model you're using, and then cut treble at the guitar and raise mids at the amp.

    Regarding strings -- light gauge round wounds will be thinner sounding than heavier gauge flat wounds (all else equal), but that's a much subtler distinction than what the OP is describing, and I doubt strings the culprit here.

    I'd add that I do not find the Godin P90 to be very bright and ice-picky at all. I've played several Kingpins, including a CW II, and have played mine through many different tube and SS amps. They're not an unusually bright guitars (nowhere near as bright as my Strat can get, for example). If you can't get to a mid-rangey jazz tone with yours at all after trying every possible tone combination on guitar and amp, consider the possibility of a defective pickup.

    John

  6. #180

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    I don't want to steal the thread but no one Kingpin user ever mentions a plastic bridge.

    Was my Kingpin with plastic bridge an exception?

  7. #181

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    Another single pup p90 player here. I don't think you made a mistake getting one. Just another voice in the chorus saying it's worth working to find your sound.

  8. #182

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    Herbie: mine has a Tusq bridge. I don't think that company wants us to call it plastic :-)

    I've read of folks changing out to a ebony bridge and liking it. No idea what it does to the sound, but I'm OK the way it is. I have other instruments with ebony.

  9. #183

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    Make sure your right hand is over the pickup at all times.

  10. #184

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herbie
    I don't want to steal the thread but no one Kingpin user ever mentions a plastic bridge.

    Was my Kingpin with plastic bridge an exception?
    No, it's the rule. And some previous threads (there are many on this guitar) have pointed out that the bridge is not a perfect fit to the top. It can be sanded to shape just as a wooden one. How much tonal difference this, or wood, would make, I don't know. One would assume that Godin has tested various bridges before finding the plastic version good enough. With the screws, it probably costs $ 2-3 to manufacture in large quantities. TOM or wood no doubt cost a few $ more.

  11. #185

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    I put a rosewood bridge on mine, and fit it to the top. Didn't change tone much, but the guitar hot livelier acoustically, and it stopped some irritating "pinging" I was getting from the strings behind the bridge.

    The trick to a good jazz tone with a small speaker modeling amp is VOX. Find whatever the modeler you have calls their "Vox" setting. Turn the gain up until the hardest notes you hit break up a little. Then adjust your EQ...this model tends to be midrange heavy, which is good. Then if you want to stay clean (overrated, but I know some folks like that kinda thing) adjust your volume from your guitar. Also, if the top end is too bright, try running your volume a little less than full on before messing with the tone knob.

  12. #186

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    Many thanks to everyone who responded, all very helpful.
    For clarification, this guitar is indeed equipped with 2 P90s. At the suggestion of Mr. Beaumont, I've attached a few photos.
    Some suggested that raising or lowering the poles on the P90s might help, that may or may not be easy to do but I'm sure I don't know how to do it.
    The plastic bridge seems like a logical culprit but not many folks have made mention of that and yet they still love the tone of this guitar with the stock bridge.
    Jehu mentioned he/she "couldn't get a bad tone out of it if he tried."
    I'm going to continue to try to find my tone with this guitar so strings are high on the priority list of things to do. In the end though my gut tells me that my Line 6 is less than compatible with this guitar, even though my Ibanez AFS75T (Ibanez Artcore AFS75T Transparent Red | Reverb) sounded pretty good though it. The problem with that guitar was it just wouldn't stay in tune and notes and chords just fluctuated wildly sometimes which may have been because of the Bigsby.
    The Line 6 has four baked-in channels named clean, crunch, metal and insane. Just the way they've named them would indicate this amp is meant to emulate the sound of a chainsaw. But it does have a "clean" channel which is the one I've been trying to shape. It also has drive, bass, mid and treble controls and the best results I've gotten so far are having the bass all the way up, the treble all the way down and the mid somewhere near the middle with the tone pot on the guitar also around 50% and the pickup switch in the middle position, which I think uses both pickups. These settings produce a relatively natural, albeit muddy, sound on the E, A and D strings but above that G, B and E sound awful and screechy and way louder than the lower strings. Strumming or picking those strings very much more lightly than the other strings helps minimize that screechy thing but I've never had to do that before and don't think I should need to.
    Mr. Beaumont said he guarantees he can help get a good sound. I'm counting on you sir, (and all of you veteran players) to do that.
    So, what's next please?
    Attached Images Attached Images Godin 5th Avenue-img_2257-jpg Godin 5th Avenue-img_2254-jpg Godin 5th Avenue-img_2255-jpg 

  13. #187

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    What kind of strings you have on there?

    Can't really tell how high your pickup polepieces are from above, but lowering them is easy, just need a small flathead screwdriver.

    As for the amp, is there a separate "gain" or "drive" knob and volume?

    I'd play with that crunch channel. Gonna probably have a midrange boost. Midrange is your friend.

  14. #188

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    What kind of strings you have on there?

    Can't really tell how high your pickup polepieces are from above, but lowering them is easy, just need a small flathead screwdriver.

    As for the amp, is there a separate "gain" or "drive" knob and volume?

    I'd play with that crunch channel. Gonna probably have a midrange boost. Midrange is your friend.
    I don't know what strings those are, I suspect they are cheap "shop strings" or they were the same that were on it when the shop acquired the guitar last year.
    The pickup pole pieces are all just above flush with the housing. What exactly will lowering them do? Actually the crunch channel does seem to have some potential at least it provides some character, just not the direction I was hoping for.
    Yes there is a separate drive, channel volume and master volume.

  15. #189

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    Quote Originally Posted by tgapen
    I don't know what strings those are, I suspect they are cheap "shop strings" or they were the same that were on it when the shop acquired the guitar last year.
    The pickup pole pieces are all just above flush with the housing. What exactly will lowering them do? Actually the crunch channel does seem to have some potential at least it provides some character, just not the direction I was hoping for.
    Yes there is a separate drive, channel volume and master volume.
    So the higher the polepiece, the louder the string. So if it's a balance issue, you can tackle it there.

    If everything is overall too "hot" you can lower all of them.

    I'd get some decent heavier strings on there...is that a plain G?

    Monels sound awesome on P-90 guitars.

    What are all the knobs on your amp?

  16. #190

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    Also need to know what pick you're using.

  17. #191

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    So the higher the polepiece, the louder the string. So if it's a balance issue, you can tackle it there.

    If everything is overall too "hot" you can lower all of them.

    I'd get some decent heavier strings on there...is that a plain G?

    Monels sound awesome on P-90 guitars.

    What are all the knobs on your amp?
    I'll try to get some strings, nothing is open near me so I'll try Amazon. The G is a wound string. Attached is all the controls on this amp. As I said previously, the bass seems non-existent so using the clean channel I tend to crank the bass all the way up and the treble all the way down. The mid range is around 60%. Those settings help but then it sounds muddy. The crunch channel is another story but the higher strings being way louder and screechy remains no matter what the settings or channel, hence my frustration.
    Attached Images Attached Images Godin 5th Avenue-img_2258-jpg 

  18. #192

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Also need to know what pick you're using.
    When I use a pick I tend to like this Alice pick, 1.20mm. But I play with just my index finger and finger nails a lot. I know, it's a terrible habit but Jeff Beck manages pretty well using his fingers only but that is another topic altogether, and no, I'm no Jeff Beck.

  19. #193

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    As a single p90 player I'd recommend using only the neck pickup to start. Usually toggle switch up.

    Poles: like Mr B said I can't really tell how they're set but it seems to me they could use a tweak or 2. These are just screws that you turn in and out. Closer makes the string brighter and louder. If a string's too loud screw in the pole. The high E is the smallest piece of metal in the saddle so it's pole is often closest.

    I kinda have the poles set as far as I can from the strings for a mellower vibe, with height variance to balance string loudness. Here's what mine looks like with D'Add flatwounds... 12's I'm guessing.

    Black guitars are a bitch. Looks like it's time for some cleaning.
    Attached Images Attached Images Godin 5th Avenue-kingpin-p90-jpg 

  20. #194

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    Quote Originally Posted by ccroft
    As a single p90 player I'd recommend using only the neck pickup to start. Usually toggle switch up.

    Poles: like Mr B said I can't really tell how they're set but it seems to me they could use a tweak or 2. These are just screws that you turn in and out. Closer makes the string brighter and louder. If a string's too loud screw in the pole. The high E is the smallest piece of metal in the saddle so it's pole is often closest.

    I kinda have the poles set as far as I can from the strings for a mellower vibe, with height variance to balance string loudness. Here's what mine looks like with D'Add flatwounds... 12's I'm guessing.

    Black guitars are a bitch. Looks like it's time for some cleaning.
    Thanks for that! I'll mess with those a bit and report back. For now, let it be known the poles seem to all be about the same on both pickups and just barely above flush.
    Also, and again forgive my ignorance, but the strings don't seem to line up exactly over the poles, I don't know how much difference that makes but the two pickups are in slightly different alignment with regard to the strings.
    Attached Images Attached Images Godin 5th Avenue-neck-jpg Godin 5th Avenue-bridge-jpg 

  21. #195

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    I agree with most of the above. Lower the polepieces for the g, b, and e strings, adjust so they have equal volume with each other, ideally all 6 strings should have equal volume, and that takes time and attention. Use just the neck pickup. The bridge pickup is probably what is giving you the screeching tone. The switch in the upper bout does that. One way is neck, the other is bridge, and the middle is both pickups. For a mellower sound, use just the neck. I have no use for the bridge pickup on any guitar, but others disagree.

  22. #196

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    From the photo I can see your bridge is shifted way to the bass side. Just loosen the strings enough so you can shift the bridge toward the treble side so the strings are centered over the fretboard. The neck pickup polepieces will also line up better. That's the pickup you care about anyway for a jazz tone. That misalignment alone will cause all kinds of pingy noises, imbalances, and bad playability.

    It probably needs a good setup, including truss rod adjustment, setting action at bridge, and intonation. I'd do that before I started swapping bridges and messing with polepieces. The 5th Avenues are great guitars to learn how to do your own setups on because they are very adjustable and simple. To me, they're like the telecasters of the archtop world. I have gotten to where I can set up one in about five to ten minutes.

    Also, a set of .013 TI Swing flatwound strings would make a world of difference.

  23. #197

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    Quote Originally Posted by ccroft
    Herbie: mine has a Tusq bridge. I don't think that company wants us to call it plastic :-)

    I've read of folks changing out to a ebony bridge and liking it. No idea what it does to the sound, but I'm OK the way it is. I have other instruments with ebony.
    The previous owner of mine switched it to a rosewood bridge. I don't think it did make it a lot of difference, based on the others I've tried.

    John
    Last edited by John A.; 04-05-2020 at 02:06 AM.

  24. #198

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    I changed out a bridge on one 5th Avenue to rosewood, fitting it to the contour of the top, of course. Honestly didn't notice that much difference because of the wood, but fitting the bridge, even the factory Tusq one, makes a difference.

  25. #199

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    The problem with bridge alignment I see in op's photo is actually quite common on these guitars when the bridge has not been fitted well to the top. The Tusq is slippery on the finish of the top until it has been scuffed a bit with some sandpaper.

  26. #200

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    Now I feel awkward, calling Tusq – the man made ivory, as Graphtec describes it – plastic.

    Lesson learned! Thanks for enlightning discussion!