-
Yes I know it's not a guitar or an amp. But it is a gizmo.
My girlfriend and I got rid of her vintage Howard (Baldwin) baby grand. It was kind of bittersweet, since she's had it a decade since she acquired it from her sister and had it restored. But the maintenance of the thing was getting to be too onerous, and it was occupying too much space in our "music room", which we wanted to turn into more of a study or family room. So it's being tuned up and being sold on consignment. Probably won't fetch more than $1200-1500, if that. The market for non-high-end used pianos is super-lousy.
So we want to get a digital piano. We want a fairly nice console, not a stage keyboard on a stand. The budget is $1-3000. I don't play much, my GF plays pop songs mainly--Joni Mitchell, Norah Jones, stuff like that. I do want a keyboard that people can come in and play when we jam.
It looks like the Yamaha Clavinova is a good deal. We had one for my son many years ago, before we got a baby grand. He is a very talented keyboardist. I think it was the lowest-priced model. We also had a Roland before that. The piano player in our group has a stage Roland and a Yamaha Clavinova at home, both of which he likes.
Any recommendations on best bang for the buck?
-
03-24-2020 12:16 PM
-
I have a Yamaha AvantGrand, which is way above your budget (and was for me too, oh well). The Clavinova is classic for a reason. You'd get many happy years of use with it.
-
I have a Yamaha P45 that I use as a MIDI controller to play Pianoteq and Native Instruments piano collections. I got it because of the keybed feel and the reasonable price ($499). The onboard grand piano sounds are pretty good but as is the case with most Digital pianos, the speakers are the weak link. Yamaha is probably the strongest player in the game and their sound sets are impressive.
-
I have a Nord. It’s the Red colored one. Out of your budget, but maybe you can find a deal on a older model used one. I bought it after I realized that most pros use this one .
-
Actually the Nord Stage Piano can be had within the top range of your budget. My wife has used one of these for gigging for years. It will require a separate amplifier, but I would recommend it highly.
We got ours through Kraft Music. They are a pretty big Nord dealer and will negotiate. The service we received was impeccable.
-
FWIW I’ve used a Yamaha P95 for teaching for eight years. Close enough to the real thing. A year and a half ago we sold our Boston grand piano. Too big for the house, too much upkeep. I bought a Yamaha P121. Waayy close to the real thing. Line out to a real amp. Great through headphones. Have never missed the grand. I played it side by side to the comparable Casio model...which some prefer for the touch and key feel. Unless a person is playing serious classical repertoire... digital!
-
If she's not using it professionally, then I would recommend something in the Roland line. I bought one for my wife for about $1200 bucks and it was fine. It's not high end but if she plays well, she'll like it.
-
You could buy two Yamaha P45s with your budget! We bought one for my daughter this past Christmas - it was the big deal, all-family conspiracy present. She’s a good pianist and plays mostly pop and light classical. Her Yamaha upright is too big for her current apartment so we are storing it for her. She *loves* her keyboard. It has a very realistic acoustic piano tone and amazingly good weighted action.
-
I really wish I hadn't seen this. I am in LOVE with a piano. And I don't even play piano.
The design on this is off the charts awesome. It would fit in perfectly in our new room, along with our collection of midcentury furniture.
It also seems to have the higher-end electronics and mechanics.
At $4300, it is more than I want to spend...it's a pretty new model, so I've been unable to find any used ones out there. Well I guess we will have to decide if we want any more furniture for the room, or just a new piano...
https://www.roland.com/global/products/kiyola_kf-10/
-
BTW, my girlfriend has a couple of requirements: she wants a piano that looks more or less like an upright piano, so sorry the Nord and any stage keyboards are out.
She wants the ability to record songs to USB.
She would like the possibility of percussion accompaniment. She's not really interested in a bunch of different voices or synth sounds though.
If I don't buckle and get the Kiyola, I am kind of leaning toward the Yamaha CLP-635 or maybe the Roland DP603.
-
To my ear, the sound of the piano in the Kiyola demo videos is atrocious. It looks to me like the sales pitch is all about the “handcrafted” enclosure. It’s a shame they didn’t make it sound better. I don’t get it. I’ve heard much older Roland digital pianos that sound far better.
-
There might be an option you haven't considered:
Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
Find a piano that suits your needs as a piano, regardless of the cabinet it comes in. That is to say, consider its functionality and price, not its case.
Then, if the piano you select is a stage piano, have someone build a keyboard stand/cabinet for the new piano that looks upright-y.
-
Within your budget you may consider the Kawai CN29. A friend of mine just bought the CN29 after trying and comparing it to similar priced Roland and Casio piano's. (And I agreed.)
-
We are on our 3rd Yamaha, all have been fabulous. Just be sure to get the features & functions you need.
-
IDK, sounded OK to me. The electronics and voices are identical to the higher end Roland models. If there's a deficiency in the speakers, that could be solved by hooking up to an external amp. Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
Unfortunately no way to give it a trial in real life...regarding other Roland models, would you recommend a specific one?
We talked about that. I build cabinets as another hobby. But then we would need an amp (for a stage piano). I am still thinking about it though. My friend has a Roland stage piano which I like a lot through his Bose L1 PA system. I don't think we'll get an L1... Originally Posted by dconeill
Last edited by Doctor Jeff; 03-26-2020 at 04:47 PM.
-
I have an old Casio Privia I bought at BestBuy cheap a long time ago (15 years ago maybe?) It has always surprised me how good it is with a good feeling weighted keyboard and two very nice grand piano sounds (plus a few other fun sounds too). My background is college level classical piano. My idea of a great playing piano is Steinway all the way !!! I actually preferred playing the Casio over the Yamaha grand I grew up on.
The old Casio has outperformed my every expectation. BTW, my mom bought one too and she loves it. It's a winner IMO.I don't know if the Casio is good for amping up -- I never messed with that -- I always just used the built in speakers or headphones. If I was playing gigs, I might have a different choice (like a Steinway Grand ! LOL)
I'm also sure the Yamaha Clavinova series is great. They just build great electronics period.
-
Hey Jeff, I sell digital pianos for a living so I might be able to answer any questions you have - but I would probably have recommended you the CLP 635 or a Roland equivalent.
I
was incredibly disappointed with the Kiyola - for that price, you can buy two Nord Grands or Kawai MP11's, which would be my personal choices... A handsome piece of furniture, but I'd never buy it myself.
This winter I sold a LOT of Kawai CN29's, my (current) favorite in its price range and product type. I tend to alternate between the CLP and it.
(If I were in your situation, I would probably go for a Nord Grand and a pair of powered monitors - either the Nord Piano monitors or a pair of Yamaha HS monitors, and build a nice cabinet myself (if I had your skills, Jeff!) for it. It's absolutely my favorite keybed of the ones I've tried - although I know some prefer the very similar Kawai MP11 which has wooden keys - and better acoustic piano sounds, I think. I don't know exactly what it is, but Nord's acoustic piano sounds just aren't exactly right, for some reason. The Rhodes samples are mind-blowing, though.
Actually, I would not only do that, but invest some time into learning how to work in a DAW - I sold my two Nord keyboards and bought Keyscape and a midi controller. I use a Macbook Pro and Logic Pro, which means that I can make my own backing tracks, or use the "drummer" plugin or the loops library for a percussion track under me. The software is future safe, in that if my hardware fails, I still only had to pay the $300 one-time fee to access the most well-crafted sample library on the market (imo). This is more of an aside though, just throwing out some options!)
... In the end, I think a CLP-635 might be your best bet. I'd try a 645 too though, to see if you find it worth the price increase. Yamaha pianos are a constant, and with good reason. They're predictable and solidly built. I would also try the Kawai CN29 if you can, I love the action on that one.
and psst, here's a little tip - I don't know if this is the case in every country, but here, you save nearly $500 by buying a satin finish piano instead of the shiny one!
-
If the playing feel should be as close to a real piano/grand there's nothing (IMO) that's currently better than KAWAI. E.g. the current MP11 or even one of the previous models (MP8). I still have an MP9000 (the first one with their special keys/manual) and it's still great. The sounds of the newer models are way better, though.
One drawback is that they're bulky/heavy, not a problem if you don't have to move it often.
-
I remember the first Kawai I ever tried, it was at a tiny music store on Denmark Street in London in 2013 or 2014. Must've been the first MP11. I was stunned, I had never tried anything like it. The action amazed me and the sound engine was equally impressive - I remember thinking "oh my god, with this, I can become Donald Fagen!" Originally Posted by MikeTT
...Years later, my store changed ownership and with it came a lot of new products - including the new MP11 SE. After that one arrived, every day was just vigilantly observing customer stream and seeing when the store was quiet enough that I could bust out a pair of DT 770's and go to town on that behemoth.
...Then, we got our first Nord Grand - I knew it was Kawai action, but no wood - so I was expecting it to be beat out by the MP11SE. However, after setting it up, there was no contest for me. Turns out that I somehow seem to prefer the lighter feeling of a stage piano's claviature to that of an authentic acoustic piano.
And those new Nord Dynos.... holy shit!!! the pre-made dyno patch sounds EXACTLY like russ ferrante's dyno on "top secret"!!!
Here's an anectote pertaining to that last point - my life as a professional musician is divided 50/50 between piano and guitar, although I consider guitar to be my main instrument - and that's what it'll say on my undergraduate diploma - anyway, I was booked to accompany a pop singer who had placed in the top 5 of Idol (the tv show), and we're from about the same place, so I was staying at my parents' place there and rehearsing on our terrible old east-german Zimmermann as I didn't own any keyboards at the time (had just sold both nords to pay rent...). First through practicing, and then rehearsing with her, I thought that I was a hack who couldn't really play piano at all. It sounded completely amateuresque. I was prepared to embarass myself and to never again get a booking like this, and be done with piano forever...
...but I'd booked the Nord Piano 4 from my store to use on the gig. As we were soundchecking and I sat down to play, the most incredible music came out of that keyboard... It sounded like I want piano to sound - I couldn't believe I was the one playing it. That was the moment I realized the importance of GOOD gear, and how much I love Nord's action!
On the other hand, a friend of mine is a pro pianist and had it the other way around. He was disappointed in the Grand and its "too light" action!
-
Thanks! It's exactly my experience: if you want something as close as possible (feel/action-wise) to a real piano, get the Kawai (or one of its predecessors). I'm actually thinking about upgrading from my MP9000 to the current MP11SE. Since self-isolation started I played again quite a bit on mine and I still like it, the "grand piano" and the "mellow piano" still hold up quite well agains't the samples in the newer ones, at least for long practice sessions.
-
If the action still feels good, you could always get a sample library... like Keyscape, hehe
-
Yes, thought about that...
, but I really just want to use it for practicing and quick ideas, keep it in the computer-nightmare-free-zone.
-
Thanks for the advice!
I was thinking my GF would prefer something pretty piano-like, like the Clavinova, but when she saw a video of a Roland stage piano with a lot of cool electronic features she was entranced.
I hope we can try a few this weekend, as Guitar World is still open these days, at least for now.
-
I went through a search process a few years ago. It depends on what you want. A lot of voices? Clavinova. However, what I was after was the BEST piano sound. Just piano. Hands down the Kawai was the best. I think it’s the CN30. Looks, feels and sound the most like an acoustic piano.
-
Thank you all for your recommendations.
Right now, it is looking like the top contenders are the Yamaha Clavinova CLP-645, followed closely by the CLP-635. The 645 is similar to the 635 but has wooden white keys (better piano feel) and bluetooth. Both Also in the running is the Roland DP-603--very cool modern design. Also, about $1000 cheaper than the 645.
I think I have gotten the Roland Kiyola out of my system, but not lying if I had had a spare $4000 lying around I would have already impulse-bought it.
Another dark horse contender is the Yamaha DGX-660. (Our keyboard player uses one on gigs.) That would benefit from a nice stand and separate amp/speakers. It doesn't look like a traditional upright, but it has a lot more electronic features which some might find really useful. The keys are not as nice as the Clavinovas. It is about 1/3 the price of the 645 though...
An experienced piano salesman told me that if I heard the 660 in isolation I would really like the piano sound, but if I A/B'd next to the Clavinovas I could tell that the modelling was not as good.
Since my girlfriend will be playing it mostly, I will have to see what she thinks. I think she is going to like the one that most replicates the acoustic experience, while offering some electronics like voices and accompaniment to augment the experience.
Reply With Quote
Grant Green, What is This Thing
Today, 01:59 PM in Ear Training, Transcribing & Reading