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  1. #1

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    I want to try another speaker in my 2015 Fender Princeton Reverb '65 Reissue.

    I'm leaning toward a 10" Tone Tubby (which one? there are several) but I'm open to other suggestions...

    Thoughts?

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  3. #2

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    Actually, the Tone Tubby is not a bad choice, at all.

  4. #3

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    Try the Eminence Lil' Bud - a hemp speaker. I believe forum member Christianm77 has one in his '65 PRRI and rates it.

    It's the 10" version of the Eminence Cannabis Rex, which I have in my Deluxe Reverb. Good speaker.

  5. #4

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    What kinda sound are you going for: Vintage Fender, smoother highs, jazz?

    Tone Tubby's San Rafael is a hemp version of a more traditional speaker - I've got one in a tweed Champ and it's really nice, records great (not made in 8" alnico anymore , but Tone Tubby still makes a 10" ).

    Weber's 10F150T is great for keeping the classic Princeton sound but fuller, smoother highs & less detailed. Really nice upgrade to a PRRI when you still want the Princeton sound. Available in 25 watts or 50 watts, 25 watts will break up earlier and have more delicate and detailed highs, 50 watt will be cleaner, fuller and warmer.

    Tone Tubby 40/40 & Eminence Lil Buddy will give you a fuller and bolder tone - more of a big amp vibe from a cool little Princeton. I've been thinking of trying these also.
    Last edited by MaxTwang; 09-30-2016 at 10:53 AM.

  6. #5

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    +1 Eminence LiL Buddy. Great speaker in a Princeton. If you like Alnico Jensen P10Q.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxTwang
    What kinda sound are you going for: Vintage Fender, smoother highs, jazz?

    Tone Tubby's San Rafael is a hemp version of a more traditional speaker - I've got one in a tweed Champ and it's really nice, records great (not made in 8" alnico anymore , but Tone Tubby still makes a 10" ).

    Weber's 10F150T is great for keeping the classic Princeton sound but fuller, smoother highs & less detailed. Really nice upgrade to a PRRI when you still want the Princeton sound. Available in 25 watts or 50 watts, 25 watts will break up earlier and have more delicate and detailed highs, 50 watt will be cleaner, fuller and warmer.

    Tone Tubby 40/40 & Eminence Lil Buddy will give you a fuller and bolder tone - more of a big amp vibe from a cool little Princeton. I've been thinking of trying these also.
    I'd say... less breakup, a bit more mids, less farty bass...

    Hmmm, this 50W might fit the bill...
    10F150T

  8. #7

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    Let the stock one break in first. The Jensen takes its time to get "warm" but once it does it has "the" sound for jazz and pedals for that matter. Until it breaks in it is a bit crispy but it is an excellent speaker. I like the Alnico Jensen 10" also but the ceramic is great for the clean stuff!

  9. #8

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    Another thing I should probably do is just use the 2nd input more. 1st input with my strat, 2nd with my archtop, Hamer, etc.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomems
    Another thing I should probably do is just use the 2nd input more. 1st input with my strat, 2nd with my archtop, Hamer, etc.
    Also, the PRRI requires the use of the tone shaping controls on the amp rather than the generally favored "set and forget" approach. I had to break myself of leaving the amp unchanged and adjusting the guitars tone control for the change of instrument. Now I adjust at the amp for change of instrument and at the guitar for the needs of the performance. Great amp though!

  11. #10

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    The PRRi is a pretty bright amp with the stock speaker. I had one and tried the Weber 10F150 ( not the thin cone version, the 10F150T). I warmed the amp up substantially. I have been told that the thin cone version is pretty bright as well as is the stock Italian made Jenson. I have an extra Weber 10F150. PM me if you have an interest.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomems
    I'd say... less breakup, a bit more mids, less farty bass...

    i've recommended this before here, and the guys that got'em really love'm..a celestion gold..it's a classic alnico magnet speaker...and it does exactly what you describe above

    it's a very efficient speaker so it gets loud with less power, but also handles 40 watts, so no chance of blowing it with a princeton...the tone will be clean until the tubes are really pushed (ie. the sound of the driven tubes)... with a very deep, but tight low end (no mush) and nice chimey upper mids and highs

    imo the finest speakers on the market...great specs

    Alnico - Celestion G10 Gold - Celestion - Guitar, Bass & Pro Audio Speakers

    cheers

  13. #12

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    I took the 12" baffle route with my Princeton. Makes it kinda bigger, a real amp!

    Tried really at least a dozen of speakers from cheap Jensens to the Celestion Blue. Webers, Greenbacks, Eminence C Rex, you name it. Then I got the WGS G12C/S. Perrfect! Tight, but not stiff. Clear but not too trebly. And the mids are there, balanced and ready to please You.

    Someone has written a thumb rule about speakers for Fenders: alnicos for Tweeds, ceramics for Silver- and Blackfaces. After tons of experiments I agree.

    YMMV, of course!

  14. #13

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    Important to know if you target higher volume sound or more tamed down for living room...
    Lower sensitivity speaker are better at keeping the volume low like on the Alnico P10Q, while a Celestion Gold 10 or little buddy will give you more volume having a higher sensitivity. I was targeting a good clean tone at lower volume at around 4-5 and I followed Vinny's advice and the 5751 in V1 + P10Q gives me exactly what I need.

  15. #14

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    I cannot recommend the second input enough. Leo Fender envisioned that input for Gibson guitars, basically. The #1 input is for Fender single coils.

    Folks just got used to using the #1 for everything and liked the way Gibsons would overdrive the heck out of the preamp into #1. I used to enjoy the way my 335 would tear up Princetons and Deluxes into the #1 input.

    Now, however, I like a jazz tone. It's there--in #2 input.

  16. #15

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    In my Princeton clone (Vintage Sound Amplification 15) I have a Guitar Warehouse G12C- a copy of an old Jensen C12n speaker. I know, it's a 12 inch speaker, but the sound is smooth and it has lots of headroom- perfect for jazz guitar.
    Highly recommended!!

  17. #16

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    Less breakup may need a higher wattage speaker. I like Celestions. Before they were discontinued I bought some of their Tru Vox 75 watt models, they for me are perfect in Fender amps.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timo
    In my Princeton clone (Vintage Sound Amplification 15) I have a Guitar Warehouse G12C- a copy of an old Jensen C12n speaker. I know, it's a 12 inch speaker, but the sound is smooth and it has lots of headroom- perfect for jazz guitar.
    Highly recommended!!
    I have the same one in my Vintage Sound 22sc and I agree, killer speaker! Rick recommended the 10" version if I go a 10" baffle. I prefer 10" speakers generally, and I will take his advise for sure!

  19. #18

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    OK so here's the roundup. I think the no. 1 priority is less breakup. All 10".


    Ceramic
    -Tone Tubby 40/40 (recommended by Tone Tubby staff) - 40W - $159

    -Weber 10F150T - 50W - $94
    -Warehouse Guitar Speakers G10C(S) 10" - 75W - $65

    -Jensen C10R (stock - 3 votes and counting!) - 25W - $0


    Hemp
    -Eminence Lil Buddy - 50W - $80


    Alnico
    -Celestion G10 Gold - 40W - $175


    2nd input
    -Plug into it - $priceless


  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by GNAPPI
    Less breakup may need a higher wattage speaker. I like Celestions. Before they were discontinued I bought some of their Tru Vox 75 watt models, they for me are perfect in Fender amps.
    This is something that I do not understand. I have learned (by reading and testing) that major parameter in question of the distortion or headroom is the sensitivity of the speaker. If it is low (say 95dB or under) You'll get earlier breakup. If it is high (say near 100dB) You will get cleaner sounds. And this has nothing to do with the wattage – wattage means only that how much the speaker will take before voice coil starts to burn.

    So if You put a 30W 99dB speaker in You Princeton You will get more cleans than with 150W 95dB speaker.

    Anyway, good luck in speaker quest!

  21. #20

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    the sensitivity rating just means how loud the speaker will get with one watt of amp power...so a speaker rated at 101db will produce that volume with a single watt...where a 92 db rated will be considerably lower volume with one watt...

    so if you have a 1 watt amp..one speaker will be 9 db louder..which is considerable

    the power handling capability is equally important because with a 15 watt amp driven hard into a 15 watt speaker you will get speaker distortion as well...a higher rated speaker will give you cleaner & louder, since it won't add speaker distortion to what your amp is already doing

    the other important spec is resonant frequency...that indicates the bottom end you can expect to get out of the speaker..the celestion gold has an 80hz res fr..that's low for a 10" speaker..why it has deep bottom tone without mush


    cheers

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by neatomic
    the sensitivity rating just means how loud the speaker will get with one watt of amp power...so a speaker rated at 101db will produce that volume with a single watt...where a 92 db rated will be considerably lower volume with one watt...

    so if you have a 1 watt amp..one speaker will be 9 db louder..which is considerable

    the power handling capability is equally important because with a 15 watt amp driven hard into a 15 watt speaker you will get speaker distortion as well...a higher rated speaker will give you cleaner & louder, since it won't add speaker distortion to what your amp is already doing

    the other important spec is resonant frequency...that indicates the bottom end you can expect to get out of the speaker..the celestion gold has an 80hz res fr..that's low for a 10" speaker..why it has deep bottom tone without mush

    cheers
    Yes, of course one should not get a speaker which has lower power handling (Wattage) than the amp gives. But after that point the Wattage does not affect the tone so much. Take a P12Q (40W, 95dB) and a Celestion Blue (15W, 100dB) and You know why.

    When the speaker is louder (more sensitivity dB's), the cooler the amp can drive it. The lower the dB, the hotter You have to run the amp. And it means earlier breakup, less headroom.

    Resonant frequency is important too and some people even look at the frequency diagrams. I can read them a bit but in the end I have to use my ears (or what is left of them).

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomems
    OK so here's the roundup. I think the no. 1 priority is less breakup. All 10".


    Ceramic
    -Tone Tubby 40/40 (recommended by Tone Tubby staff) - 40W - $159

    -Weber 10F150T - 50W - $94
    -Warehouse Guitar Speakers G10C(S) 10" - 75W - $65

    -Jensen C10R (stock - 3 votes and counting!) - 25W - $0


    Hemp
    -Eminence Lil Buddy - 50W - $80


    Alnico
    -Celestion G10 Gold - 40W - $175


    2nd input
    -Plug into it - $priceless

    These are ALL great speakers for your Princeton.. However, the proof will ultimately be up to YOUR ears, not speaker graphs, or forum buddy recommendations.

    I went through this when I scored a '68 Princeton drip edge earlier this year. Alike you, I did not want much break-up...even in input #1. And I wanted to hear what that old design of Leo Fender truly sounded like. Transparency was my target tone. For that, I ended up installing a well broken in EV10. Now my archtops and Strat can coexist in the same amp, even with the volume maxed. What a great tone!

    Try out different speakers if you can. Realize, however, that until they have been broken in, they won't quite be at their sonic potential. That takes many hours of playing time.

    Trust your ears.

    Enjoy the hunt!

  24. #23

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    I hope You find a marketplace of used speakers. They are cheaper and often broke in. And when You sell them You get the same price that You bought them.

    US inhabitants have The Gear Page Buy and sell and Reverb.com but we Europeans have to trust our national forums or Ebay. My Les Paul has Member Classified district fo EU members. It works too, slowly but anyway.
    Last edited by Herbie; 10-02-2016 at 03:25 AM.

  25. #24

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    Whatever you get, get something efficient. The stock speaker isn't very efficient which is good if you want speaker break up, but if you want something with more head room, it's good to get a more efficient speaker.

  26. #25

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    I'm in agreement with Neatomic re the Celestion Alnico Gold, although my PRRI is equipped with a Weber 10f150, which sounds great. But, I have the Gold in my DRRI and it is pure sonic bliss and one of these days I will swap the Weber out with the incomparable 10" Celestion Alnico Gold.

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinlander
    Important to know if you target higher volume sound or more tamed down for living room...
    Lower sensitivity speaker are better at keeping the volume low like on the Alnico P10Q, while a Celestion Gold 10 or little buddy will give you more volume having a higher sensitivity. I was targeting a good clean tone at lower volume at around 4-5 and I followed Vinny's advice and the 5751 in V1 + P10Q gives me exactly what I need.
    Not to derail the OP's thread. I looking to purchase a Fender 1966 Princeton non-reverb model.

    From what I under the JC10"N" was the "better" speaker than the original oxfords. This amp has the oxford.
    I just saw a 1966 C10"Q" for sale on eBay. My question is with no gain stage from non-reverb, assume lots of clean headroom, how the would C10Q work?

    If I had bought a PRRI I would have put the 5751 in the V1 for sure.

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildcat
    If I had bought a PRRI I would have put the 5751 in the V1 for sure.
    That's what I did in both PRRI and DRRI. I've never looked back. 😎

  29. #28

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    Has anyone compared the the Jensen options p10r p10q (is it?) side by side?

    The p10r was in a clone I tried compared to my Princeton which has a Eminence Legend. No way of telling how much tonal difference was the speaker. I was told the p10r not as loud but I would be happy with that compromise if the tonal difference was materially from that speaker (and AU$200 less than Celestion Gold).

    Period correct does not matter to me, really interested in tonal difference.

  30. #29

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    p10r is a 25 watt speaker..its more efficient..so will get louder with less watts...and break up faster when the cone gets pushed

    p10q is 40 watts..its less efficient, so you'll have to drive your amp a tad harder but the speaker itself won't break up as quickly..it also has a deeper bottom end and more biting upper mids and highs




    cheers

  31. #30

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    neatomic you got your ears all over this topic. Can I ask if you have played the Jensens side by side with the Celestion Gold, if so what did you hear?

  32. #31

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    yes, and a few others...the celestion gold is louder with the same amp settings...that's the first thing you notice...

    it has deeper tighter smoother bottom, no mush...which i prefer with an open back cab or combo style amp...

    has flat clear midrange and nice chimey top..

    many other 10's have a flabby low end, and a midrange or upper mid honk

    the gold sounds way more transparent

    made in the uk...it's only caveat is its price!!

    cheers
    Last edited by neatomic; 10-02-2016 at 08:41 PM. Reason: cl-

  33. #32

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    thanks I agree no mush flabby bottom, especially for a gigging amp please. Seems like I will have to save some pennies.

    oh I just got goose bumps, Kenny Burrell Autumn in New York just started playing on my computer. Oh when he plays the chords, love that sound, Eminence is almost there but just seems to miss that top end sparkle.

  34. #33

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    Here’s the current depth chart. My current plan is to do nothing; I want to spend a lot of time on that 2nd input first. Thanks all…

    1-Celestion G10 Gold - 40W - $175 – Alnico

    Tie for 2nd:
    2-Weber 10F150T - 50W - $94 – Ceramic
    2-Tone Tubby 40/40 - 40W - $159 – Ceramic

    Eminence sounds cool although not exactly what I’m going for.

  35. #34

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    Recommend Eminence Copperhead

    Which 10" Eminence Speaker for Jazz ?

  36. #35

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    Hi guys, I installed the Celestion Gold and it sounds great. Except... there's this garbled decay sound on Bb in the top two octaves. Planning to give the retailer a call. It didn't make this sound with the Jensen.

    It almost sounded like pedal interference, or a noisy digital sound (I'm just plugging straight in, no pedals). Tried with two guitars, same thing.

    Any ideas other than try to get a replacement?

  37. #36

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    I put the Jensen back in; that has the garbled sound too. So it's not the speaker, guitar, or room. What's next, the tubes? What tubes should I put in the Princeton???

  38. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomems
    I put the Jensen back in; that has the garbled sound too. So it's not the speaker, guitar, or room. What's next, the tubes? What tubes should I put in the Princeton???
    I'm very satisfied with Tung-Sol 6V6GT's.

  39. #38

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    I don't know exactly what I got when I purchased a Tone Tubby 40/40 used, but man did it sound like cardboard!
    It's a 10 inch speaker I put in my old Princeton Reverb. Being used, I don't know if it was broken-in or not. But I couldn't wait to tear it out. Especially since the Eminence (Fender) Legend 1058 I had in it sounded so good.

    I don't understand the love for the TT's. Did I get a bad one? No Fender tone.

  40. #39

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    I had to sell my Princeton RI, too many issues.

    Oh I miss it. The Quilter is just not doing it for me. Gonna get aquality made local one I think. So the question is speaker?

    I have tried c10r, copperhead, legend. They were all OK.

    I have listened to every youtube video. The gold I do not like. The 12 Celestion Alnico Blue sounds $brilliant$, the Celestion 10 Greenback sounds fantastic, Jensen 12 Tornado really good..... but that is youtube so who know?

    I guess generally I want my Princeton to sound like my old Deluxe best amp I have ever had but I do not want to have to lug one around. I will be playing my 175 through it with a P90 in a humbucker. I like my sound reasonably bright but warm and smoky, mellow with a simmering growl underneath.

    I have not seen the Greenback mentioned much on the jazz forum as an option. Anyone had experience?

  41. #40

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    After some time, and a Quilter amp too, I just went with a 1966 BF Princeton Nonreverb. Dropped a Ted Weber speaker in as the original was toast. Haven't looked back since.

    Quote Originally Posted by gggomez
    I had to sell my Princeton RI, too many issues.

    Oh I miss it. The Quilter is just not doing it for me. Gonna get aquality made local one I think. So the question is speaker?

    I have tried c10r, copperhead, legend. They were all OK.

    I have listened to every youtube video. The gold I do not like. The 12 Celestion Alnico Blue sounds $brilliant$, the Celestion 10 Greenback sounds fantastic, Jensen 12 Tornado really good..... but that is youtube so who know?

    I guess generally I want my Princeton to sound like my old Deluxe best amp I have ever had but I do not want to have to lug one around. I will be playing my 175 through it with a P90 in a humbucker. I like my sound reasonably bright but warm and smoky, mellow with a simmering growl underneath.

    I have not seen the Greenback mentioned much on the jazz forum as an option. Anyone had experience?

  42. #41

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    Took me a while to wrap my head and prejudices against non reverb model. Really silly in the end. With lost of a gain stage, more head room, and all the affordable reverb pedals. Plus very more affordable than the same model with reverb. Just a great clean platform to do what ever you want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greentone
    +1 wildkat. Great amp.

  43. #42

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    Actually I have to thank Mr. Beaumont as he was/is a strong advocate of the non-reverb Princeton amp. Especially in the Silverface models. Lots of bang for buck. I just went with BF in the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildcat
    Took me a while to wrap my head and prejudices against non reverb model. Really silly in the end. With lost of a gain stage, more head room, and all the affordable reverb pedals. Plus very more affordable than the same model with reverb. Just a great clean platform to do what ever you want.

  44. #43

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    Wildcat,

    I played regularly for about 25 years with a guy who would bring three or four small Fender amps to the gig. Usually, he'd bring a tweed Fender Vibrolux, a tweed Fender Harvard, and a blackface Fender Deluxe Reverb. More recently, he started bringing a silverface Fender Princeton Reverb, the DR, and a non-reverb bf Fender Deluxe amp.

    I got to listen to and try each of these amps on a regular basis as we worked the gig. I developed some strong opinions. (1) the two tweed amps are exceptional. (2) I prefer the non-reverb Deluxe to the reverb model--for the reasons that you outline above.

    I'd be much more likely to pick up a non-reverb Deluxe, at this point, and just use one of my reverb units with it. The headroom is really useful.

  45. #44

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    GT I didn't know there was a nonreverb Deluxe amp. Then I found out that they were made only 3 years. 1964,65,66. So I searched one down, 1965, and bought it. Haven't looked back since.
    I have owned so many amps. But in the end I went back to the foundation of what our generation knows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greentone
    Wildcat,

    I played regularly for about 25 years with a guy who would bring three or four small Fender amps to the gig. Usually, he'd bring a tweed Fender Vibrolux, a tweed Fender Harvard, and a blackface Fender Deluxe Reverb. More recently, he started bringing a silverface Fender Princeton Reverb, the DR, and a non-reverb bf Fender Deluxe amp.

    I got to listen to and try each of these amps on a regular basis as we worked the gig. I developed some strong opinions. (1) the two tweed amps are exceptional. (2) I prefer the non-reverb Deluxe to the reverb model--for the reasons that you outline above.

    I'd be much more likely to pick up a non-reverb Deluxe, at this point, and just use one of my reverb units with it. The headroom is really useful.

  46. #45

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    Just been to heaven. Whilst there tried some boutique Princeton clones and Tweed Drluxe.

    Ordered Princeton with P12Q.

    I am totally blown away. 6 week wait is gonna be hell.

    Sounds like a song Heaven and Hell.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  47. #46

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    Well, I´m a bit late here but I have an additional question concerning a new speaker for my Fender 68 Princeton Reverb.
    There´s a Celestion 10 Thirty in but I don´t like its character.

    I want a 10" speaker for clean tone but with not too crisp hights and I´m thinking of maybe some P10 or a Weber 10F150 with "T" or without. The highpriced Celestion Gold might also do what I intend but don´t know.

    I often play over a 2X12" cabinet with Greebacks (I built) that isn´t too bad but a bit bassy and besides it is quite a big block in my small room.

    Thanks + I´d appreciate every advice..

  48. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by viento
    Well, I´m a bit late here but I have an additional question concerning a new speaker for my Fender 68 Princeton Reverb.
    There´s a Celestion 10 Thirty in but I don´t like its character.

    I want a 10" speaker for clean tone but with not too crisp hights and I´m thinking of maybe some P10 or a Weber 10F150 with "T" or without. The highpriced Celestion Gold might also do what I intend but don´t know.

    I often play over a 2X12" cabinet with Greebacks (I built) that isn´t too bad but a bit bassy and besides it is quite a big block in my small room.

    Thanks + I´d appreciate every advice..
    I once tested about ten different speaker in my SFPR and the clear winner was WGC G12C/S. Available as G10G/S too. Very reasonable priced, specially if You find a second hand one.

    Very balanced fenderish sound without harsh high end. And not so stiff as Cannabis Rex.

    During my quest I started to believe in an old rule of thumb about Fender amps and speakers: Tweeds love alnicos, Blackfaces love ceramics.

    Good luck for the hunt!

  49. #48

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    I think the default PRRI set up is as a recording amp? So it breaks up earlier..... obv the 68 but even the 65?

    I’m constantly amazed by the clean headroom I can push out 12 Watts with the right speaker

    But then, a lot of players would hate that too....

  50. #49

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    Through the conversion or modding of my 68Princeton Reverb,
    the amplifier has gotten the airy and fine heights,
    as they are known from the originals.

    Tech.information:
    Tube 3x 12AX7, 1x 12AT7 and 2x 6V6


    1x 10 "Celestion TEN 30 speaker


    12 watts


    2 inputs


    Controls: Volume, Treble, Bass, Reverb, Speed, Intensity


    Effects Reverb and Vibrato


    incl. 2x foot switch and cover
    _________________
    When I got it (used), the former owner had changed the speaker
    for a Warehouse G10C which I didn´t like.
    So I put in the original
    10 "Celestion TEN 30 - a tad better - but far from
    what I want.

    I´ve gotta try out some of the above mentioned speakers and see which
    will correspond to my "dreams"


    Have a Happy New Year!

  51. #50

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    Help! My Princeton drives me nuts. It and its Celestion Gold G10 sounds great on "7" with a solid body but with my archtop it feeds back on "4" - arrrghhhh

    Thinking about selling it. Someone talk me out of it...

    Jazz is just at home (no gigs) so Ampeg GVT5-110 takes the cake.

    In my little rock band, been playing a Schecter Hellcat Bass VI through Mooer yellow comp into Vox AC10 and darn it sounds good! Fender Rumble 40W fine too for P-bass.