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I'm curious to know what the output power level control was set at on the tested amp. Most stores set that at the lowest level and the sound is necessarily less impressive because you just aren't moving the air. Also, the "long" reverb ends up very proportional to the power setting and is especially good for direct out recording. Something complex is going on there and I'm not sure just what.
Anyway, for the test reported here I am interested in the output level setting. I've played Twins, I own currently 4 tube amps including a vintage 1960's Silvertone and a Princeton Reverb Re-Issue. The TMTR sounds wonderful in that company.
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01-29-2020 02:59 PM
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Today I traded my Vibrolux for a TMDR. I just don't want to lug around a heavy amp.
The TMDR is perfectly useable for my Beatles Tribute band and also for my beginning jazz adventure. On full 22W, it has enough clean headroom. Much more than the DR. Depending on your pickups, it stay clean till 6, whereas the DR starts to break up around 4.
The TMDR is light enough to carry in public transportation and that changes things for me.
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What I noticed (and I could be wrong) is that people who didn't like Tonemasters don't seem to be too crazy about Fender blackface amps (even the tube ones) in the first place.
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Yep. the neo speakers are a deal-breaker for me. I gigged extensively with the same speaker they are using and it is indeed super light but IMO, it's nasally and mushy when turned up and comparing it to a celestion G12H-75, the celestion sounded better and held up better at loud volumes for both clean and dirty tones. Your ear will eventually get used to the sound of the jensens and normalize them but I did not like them at gig volume for rock or jazz or fusion.
Originally Posted by wengr
Honestly, for the extra 4lbs / each, I'd put up with the extra weight ...
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I tried the TM Deluxe reverb and really liked it.
Next to it was a Deluxe Reverb RI, I had a play through that as well.
I actually preferred the sound of the TM. It had a slightly fatter sound. Maybe the different speaker accounts for that? The reverb on the TM is a bit more exaggerated than the RI. I've played a few Fender amps where the reverb control is really sensitive.
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Exactly, it's not like they are EV or something heavy. Originally Posted by jzucker
I get it. I use neo for bass gigs. With a 410 neo Bergantino cab I went from 102 lbs to 50lbs. With some tweaking I can get a usable tone.
But on guitar I'll pass.
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I made sure to set it to full 'cause I wanted to see if the amp has enough headroom for my applications. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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True in my case. Though I liked the Deluxe Reverb Reissue better I'd still prefer the Hot Rod. I guess common wisdom says otherwise. The scooped tone and wooly bass of the blackface sound design seems not to work too well for me. I've played them on stage and it was OK but generally I seem to feel better with more mids and a tighter bass (if I get to play a backline hotrod I set the bass control to zero). Originally Posted by Tal_175
BTW I also had the opportunity to play the new handwired Princeton Reverb (not in the same room though) and liked the tone. But a princeton would cut it only for the quietest gigs IMHO – and 2.300 € would be a hefty price for a practice amp.
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The Jensens in the ToneMasters were developed in close cooperation with Fender and are different, twangier I'm told, from the Tornado 12 Classics that J. Zucker initially praised. Those, in turn, can be found in Fender's George Benson signatures. Having never been able to afford or lug any of the originals (but forced to sell my HRDL after the first of four surgical operations on my limbs and back), I'm no expert of the Fender tone and its variations. I believe part of the Twin Reverb's charisma is in the dynamics rather than voice. After all, its line of evolution includes changes in circuitry, tubes and speakers, so it's a little ambiguous for a reference.
Given how many jazz guitarists - contemporary and of days of yore - are/were perfectly happy with SS amps, there's no absolute truth. With a tube factory in China down for an indefinite period, there's currently only two operative plants in the whole world, one in Russia and one in Slovakia. It's hard to see a sustainable future for this antiquated, however dear, technology. In LA last week, I was struck by the parallel existence of roaring V8's and Teslas. Not difficult to predict which way the world is headed.
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...Do the new Fender Tone Master series amps have more clean headroom than their corresponding tube counterparts? I would think with 100-200 watts (TMDR and TMTR respectively) on tap they would have significantly more clean headroom. Do they?
I'm trying to decide between the two Fender Tone Master amps. I'll need at least a moderate amount of headroom. I'll be playing 90% jazz and 10% West Coast jump and blues on an archtop and Tele. So I might be using a boost pedal with light overdrive, for blues.
But I'm wondering how much headroom the TMDR, in particular, has available. If headroom is an issue I'll just go ahead and get the TMTR.
I'm also wondering about one more thing...aside from the differences in sound between a single 12" speaker and 2 x 12" speakers, is there a difference in the basic "sonic personalities" of the TMDR and TMTR? For example, does the TMDR have a little more mid range and is the TMTR a little more scooped? Or, are they pretty much the same?
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For $100 an extra 12" Neo Speaker ,100 watts extra,and not much more weight the Twin is a way better deal!
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That's not really accurate-the raw power numbers are only part of the story. The Tone Masters also duplicate the sound, response, break-up character, and loudness "slope" of the originals. Turn a TMTR and a TMDR to the same volume, they will not sound the same. One will sound like a twin, one like a Deluxe Reverb. Originally Posted by jads57
I love my Tone Master Twin Reverb, but I am still pondering selling off a bunch of stuff to get a Tone Master Deluxe just because I like the sound of both amps. Likely that's overkill for a hobby player like me, but hey I don't buy season tickets to sporting events... gotta spend the money somewhere!
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The TMDR has more clean headroom than the DR. It will be really, really loud before it starts breaking up. If you need that power, you can always use the DI.
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The way I have read about the blackface line-up over the years, as the amps get bigger Deluxe>Vibrolux>Pro>Super>Twin... the bigger the amp, the more mids it has. It's still the blackface signature of scooped mids, but the bigger amps have a little more. Some even consider the Super Reverb "Fender's marshall" when cranked up lol. This does not include the Princeton, as it has a different phase inverter than the others, and that really changes the topology... many people prefer PRs to DRs because they find the PRs a little sweeter.
No one uses a Twin for breakup... but with the TM power scaling feature, I guess you could... AND keep it at a reasonable volume. I realize the power scaling feature isn't billed as a master volume, but it kind of is.... my Roland actually has both- a master volume AND a scaling feature... the MV allows a little more fine-tuning off overall volume, but the power scaling gets you 90% of the way there.
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The TM amps also have power scaling so you can use the full wattage for headroom and lower wattage for breakup and not be too loud for the venue. You really should not need a pedal to get dirt. The only reason for a pedal would be to alter the tone but if you like the sound of a cranked DR then you should be fine with the guitar straight in the TMDR and the volume cranked with the power scaled down.
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So all I can say with my experience trying both amps the Twin was preferable overall from a tonal standpoint. But I found the same to be true with my Quilters. The Tone Block 202 sounds bigger than my Aviator amps which are 100 watts.
Another nice amp I recently tried was the Boss Nextone. Only tried at a lower volume though, but 2 nice usable channels for sure!
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Although the TMDR pushes 100w, it is the equivalent of 22w in a tube amp. Nonetheless, except with a loud drummer you should have enough clear headroom for most situations. The TMTR has a lot more headroom than the TMDR, but as Lawson says, it does not have the same tonal characteristics. It really boils down to what sound you prefer and if you think you need the full power of the TMTR - personally I wouldn't play a Twin set above 5 or 6 without suffering major hearing damage....... I cannot imagine needing the full power of a TMTR and am more than satifsied with the TMDR,, but others can have legitimately different needs.
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The fun thing about the TMTR is that you can turn the volume up to 6 or 7 and get the fatness you like, but turn the power selector down to 15 watts output and not shatter windows. It's pretty nifty having the features, the "air movement" that the 2x12 provides, and the direct out at that level, but not having to endure apocalyptic volume levels.
In the end, though, I think the TMTR/TMDR choice is about which sound and tone profile you really like best.
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Well said in above post! Are you looking for a smaller pushed amp tone or a bigger Clean Tone is what it boils down to. I'm always looking for both, but defer to the bigger Clean Tone as my primary qualification.
I have yet to find any one amp capable of being both a Station Wagon and a Ferrari, LOL!
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Set the TMTwin on 10, crank the mids, power on 1 watt, and make my Strat scream; at midnight with the wife asleep. Bring out my inner Spinal Tap. And Jimi and SRV and no pedals and Twins have a lovely distortion if you can get there without hearing damage.
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Had the chance to audition a new Fender Tone Master Twin Reverb and the Deluxe Reverb version last Thursday. This life long, snooty, boutique amp, tone snob, was extremely impressed. So much so I ended up taking the TMTR home. It will be powering a new Eastman AR580CE jazz archtop and a new Fender '60s Modded Vintera Telecaster.
As a staunch tube snob I tried very hard not to like both amps. I mean, they're SS amps after all. How good could they be? The answer is.....really, really, good. No, I mean really good!! They are so close to the vintage black face versions as to be well within the ballpark of tone/sound similarity to their vintage counterparts. Even though they may not be the 100% exact tone/sound replica of their vintage black face counterparts they're definitely "close enough" to permanently turn this tube snob's head and to not worry about the remaining 1% of black face tone exactness. Even vintage black face amps don't sound exactly alike. They're just great sounding amps on their own merits regardless of how close to they are (or are not) to sounding like their black face counterparts.
And, other very important and usable features like a 50% reduction in weight, a great, very transparent, power attenuator, a very effective DI/IR feature, a very good cab emulator, and all of the tone coloring features of the ubiquitous Twin and Deluxe Reverb amps.
Yes, I feel I came away with an extremely well designed amp, SS or tubes notwithstanding. I opted for the TMTR for the extra headroom for jazz. But I likely could have been just as happy with the TMDR. These are just outstanding amps, IMHO. Can't wait to try my new guitars through my TMTR. I'm expecting a lot of enjoyment out of my new amp/guitars combination. Yep, Fender did indeed hit a grand slam with the new TM series of amps. And they did the impossible yet inevitable...they made a SS convert out of this long time boutique tube amp snob. Time will tell whether these amps are as good as people are saying. But I wouldn't be at all surprised if they become a new milestone in electric instrument amplification and...a grand slam for Fender.Last edited by jumpnblues; 02-29-2020 at 11:08 AM.
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I agree 100%. I also recently purchased a TMTR.
As a fellow tube amp snob I seriously doubted that the new tone masters could live up to the hype.
But I must admit that I was blown away by how much they sound like the real thing.
And the weight reduction makes it practical to gig with these amps.
Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
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Jep, I just walked in and out a rehearsal with two guitars on my back (Mono dual), my pedalboard in my left hand and my TMDR in my right hand.
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Had my TMTR for a good while now, play it every day alongside a Princeton Reverb Reissue and a Quilter TB202, and while I like all these amps a lot, the TMTR is the go-to because of it's no-drama simplicity and versatility.
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Had a used TMDR yesterday (it is really like new) for 600€ and love this amp!
I couldn’t decide between the two TM but the used one decided for me.
Really impressive amp and my GLB Gig50FS is now for sale
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