-
I was ordering strings so I threw in this Millenium 13x11 tour tom bag for my 12J.
I like that it has a compartment which fits the magleg.
It is a bit bigger than needed. 12x11 would probably have been a better fit but they don't come in 12x11. They do come in 12x10 and I tried putting a 3cm thick book (the Mark Levine Jazz Theory book
) on top of the speaker grill and there was no problem closing the bag, but it was a bit tight if I had both the book and the magleg in that compartment.
-
05-03-2022 06:03 AM
-
Good to know that book has a use! ;-)
Originally Posted by orri
I tried putting a 3cm thick book (the Mark Levine Jazz Theory book )
-
Many Toob owners use a Stairville SB-125 or Flyht Gorilla 125 lighting bag from Thomann. Protection Racket makes egg-shaped Tom bags, which are perfect for telescopic Toobs. Their 10"x8" holds a 12" bass telescopic snugly and a shorter 10" telescopic with room for a micro-amp There's also a 10"x10" for more space. A 12" is too loose.
-
Hi -- do you know which Protection Racket case would fit your "10S" Toob? Originally Posted by Gitterbug
-
Such a great analogy for music theory. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
If you don't have it, it can be difficult to see why, how or when you should use it.
When you have it, you will find a lot of uses for it that you didn't anticipate.
-
Marc, if the egg-shaped 10x8 Tom case takes a 230 mm deep 12" telescopic, the 2" deeper 10x10 should take your 260 mm deep 10S with ease. Haven't found one locally to try, however. Originally Posted by marcwhy
-
I’m jesting really. I was looking at that book today, actually. Originally Posted by orri
-
Hi all,
I am digging out this older thread, because I jumped on the toob train, too.
I wanted to have a light weight amp and cabinet for some small events, hence I ordered a 6.5 Metro from Markku and a Warwick Gnome from big T.
The Gnome looks quite the same as the TC BAM 200 - same power, 200W on 4 Ohm, 130 on 8.
The Metro has the Sikka speaker 8 Ohm rated at 130W.
I tested the equipment these days at a rehearsal of one of the bigbands I play with. They are not the loudest ones. Midrange level, I suppose. No problem with the power, also the more mid focussed sound of the 6.5 inch speaker makes it easy to cut through the horns. You can still see the amp settings on the pic. Enough power left.
Moreover, our female bass player was impressed about the big sound coming out of this tiny little amp and speaker.
She once more complained about schlepping her 20kg equipment to gigs.
The whole stuff, speaker, amp and power cord, finds its place in a 10x10 tom case, Millenium from big T.
The amp found a perfect housing in a small cardboard box which I had from somewhere.
Great stuff, however for the next bigband gig I will stay with my 40W tube amp. Guitarists are conservative guys, you know.
But let's see how long!
-
i used my bam + toob metro
up firing rig today at a jam sess
on my similar amp i ended up
boosting the low end a bit
but that’s just my taste probably
BTw the upfiring works great for everyone to hear equally ....
i leave the bam attached and
chuck the whole caboodle into
a shoulder bag and done
that green rope is just a handle
i love it and sooo light !
-
Pingu, ye olde faithful, good to see you in action again! 201st Metro, to Seal Beach, California, on Monday. Actually, two more to Sacramento.
Cheers,
MarkkuLast edited by Gitterbug; 12-05-2022 at 04:24 PM.
-
Old thread, but am just excited about my delivery from Custom Sounds Finland of a Metro BG. It's to be paired with a BAM200.
Not just for guitar, but also my faux Hammond organ rig at home (I don't like using a 15" JBL Eon with it, nor anything, actually)....maximum top frequency, with overtones &c. is about 4K. Stricto sensu, top 'C' is just a shade over 2K. The bass pedals may be pushing the speaker a bit, but I'm not as heavy on the bass pedals as some....at least not constantly shadowing the LH, but used for emphasis, walk-ups, and so forth. Pretty typical jazz use.
So, it'll do double duty for that and my Ibanez AF55. For the foreseeable future, just at home. It's in the mail/post as we speak!
The US distributor wanted $60 bucks to ship the same TOOB from New Jersey to the West Coast of the US. The Finnish shop, about $23 USD, shipped US International Priority Mail, and the price was significantly lower as well. Will receive it soon, I've no doubt.
Plus, I have a few Finnish friends, and although I'd like to say I've learned the language....I've learned...some of it! Enough to maybe read a few headlines from newspapers, basic grammar, but the language and the people are absolutely nonpareil. And the more adult idiomatic expressions are a treasure in themselves. So it was a no-brainer for me.
-
Kiitos ja tervetuloa joukkoon! (Thank you and welcome to the crowd!)
Custom Sounds ships tons of pedals worldwide and has a super deal with Finnish Post. Yet, 23$ is definitely below cost. Onnittelut! (Congratulations!)
My recent Metro shipments from Finland to the US have been around 65$ by UPS Expedited. Your experience actually prompts me to explore shipping cooperation with Custom Sounds.
While I encourage people to get in touch with Toob/Metro resellers first, some 75% of my commerce is direct. It's also worth pointing out that the 15% discount to Forum Members still holds.
Cheers,
Markku
-
Thanks for the inside info! I thought the shipping was surprisingly low, but it's been ages since I've investigated. Perhaps Custom Sounds are taking a loss, for some reason, but I didn't ask!
I wonder if you have any thoughts about possible damage to the very good SICA speaker by putting the occasional bass note (on the Hammond, the absolute lowest is at around 32 Hz....so quite a bit lower than the usual 60 Hz or so for a regular bass guitar, IIRC). I don't plan to step on that low 'C' much at all, but wouldn't relish having to replace the stock speaker for reasons of my own stupidity!
High/treble frequencies should not be a problem, though.
Yes, I suppose you would have recommended the FR model, however, this is primarily intended for guitar use, and I don't intend to run digital piano through it. Just occasional the organ, and that mostly because I can easily point the speaker + BAM200 set-up pretty much directly to my ears....I have not very good neighbors, and have no intention of opening up the amp to anywhere *near* the capacity of the speaker cabinet.
-
[I wonder if you have any thoughts about possible damage to the very good SICA speaker by putting the occasional bass note (on the Hammond, the absolute lowest is at around 32 Hz....so quite a bit lower than the usual 60 Hz or so for a regular bass guitar, IIRC). I don't plan to step on that low 'C' much at all, but wouldn't relish having to replace the stock speaker for reasons of my own stupidity!]
Terve!
I believe you'll be OK. The BG has enough acoustic suspension to go well below 60 Hz without breaking up, on sensible volumes. It works for 5-string bass and a double bass tuned in fifths. We have played a Roland keyboard through it. The very lowest notes just fade out, as the response curve starts from around 30 Hz. As for the top end, there's life above 4 kHz. The latest curve looks more normal with a downward slant above 4 kHz and a plateau around 6 kHz. Earlier curves showed a pronounced hump at 6-7 kHz - perhaps an unwanted feature now weeded out.
The speaker's Neo "motor" has been around from ca. 2010 and was originally rated at 100W RMS/200W peak. At some point they re-rated it at 130/160W. Your BAM 200 might produce about 130W at 8 ohm. I say "might" because it's not the loudest 200W bass amp on the market. As you will have noticed, Gain's role is to accommodate for the wide variety of passive and active bass PU signals, not to produce any hair to your sound.
BR
Markku
-
Low E on a 4 string bass is 41.2 Hz at concert pitch. A 5 string goes a fourth lower (30 Hz) and an upright with a C foot goes to the same 32 Hz that your pedalboard reaches. I use a pair of Metros (a GP and a BG) in stereo for my Roland guitar synth’s excellent B3 / Leslie patch, and it’s been amazing on blues gigs. There’s no sign of any problem at all after almost a year, and I love the sound (as do the bands with which I’ve used it). Originally Posted by jackalGreen
It also pumps out a seriously heavy horn section!
-
The Toob metros seem to deal very well with my octave pedal.
-
Thanks everyone so much. Yes, it appears I had the bass frequencies off by quite a bit! To my shame, but for the benefit of the equipment and instruments to be used, that's very much to one's advantage!
Markku, the technical details you've shared are indeed news to me, and I'm happy with the outcome: that's even better than I imagined, especially re the speaker tolerances, and even the info about the BAM into 8 Ohms.
And nice to hear testimonial about a B3+Leslie (via a guitar synth).....I still use an old Hammond-Suzuki XK-1 (it has a solid Hammond tone....probably pretty much sine waves.....and....somewhat OK chorus/vibrato effect....good percussion....just about enough drawbars to sort of make do), but with a Harmonix Lester-K stereo pedal, it's a solid Clonewheel, as well as being able to manage lower manual and 24-note pedalboard....no doubt stereo adds something to the Leslie effect. Usually I've managed fine just mono with fake Leslie effects, but, opinions vary.
However, the Lester-K is capable of adding *quite* a bit of dirt, reminiscent of early Jimmy McGriff recordings (like "I Got a Woman" and all those)...they sound great through KRK Classic 5s, but I'd be hesitant to put so much through the TOOB.
We'll see when the Metro BG arrives! This is going to be fun!
-
The XK-1 is a pretty good organ. But there's no substitute for the real thing. I have an XK-5 Pro at the club in which I'm the house band leader, and it's absolutely wonderful through our Leslie 3300. It's so close to a B-3 in perfect shape that I'm not sure I could tell the difference between the two. And the B-3 / Leslie in the Roland synth is pretty close to the real thing, although not as close as the XK5 Pro. Originally Posted by jackalGreen
Stereo is essential for a decent digital approximation of a real Leslie. It's impossible to reproduce the phase effects through one channel. Using a pair of Metros and a stereo amplifier, the sound is really excellent and good enough to fool all but the most experienced. But the best sound I've ever gotten from my synthesizer has been through the house sound at the club. We have a full QSC setup with a pair of 18" subs under two line arrays and a serious high frequency array on each side of the stage. The QSCs have kilowatt+ internal class D amps in each cabinet.
Last Thursday night, the vocalist for our vocal feature set was a delightful woman from Argentina - and she brought her guitarist boyfriend with her. So I invited him to the stage and played the Hammond behind them on some of the tunes. The organ's a bit too high in the mix because my recorder was pointed at my guitar amp and the Leslie is right next to my amp on stage (I'm on Hammond on these two). But you can get an idea of how fantastic the XK5 is from these. That's the great Frank McKitty on tenor. The Metros are close, but no cigar......
This one's with a vocalist who'd been our featured performer a few times over the last year but came in from New York that night to hear Carolina. She did a few tunes in the second hour:
-
That's good testimonial as well as some Actual Proof. Yeah, I'm looking to upgrade to a Crumar Mojo (double manual) since for a while, but even though the inboard Leslie effect is strong on the Crumar, it's on the back burner for me. The main benefit is getting the two manuals close enough to do how one does on a real organ: constant dropping the RH down to the lower manual to add a little bit of almost atonal "chuff" to the groove. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
Now I'm just looking for a Telecaster I can string with roundwounds in 9s or something...I can practice Bach at home, but I'm back all in on guitar! Just got to relearn it first. I'm about 0.01% to copying Wes (any) or Pat's "Sunny," so, pretty much good.
Probably a dozen years ago, just the XK-1, through the house PA, was fine for just a guitar/drums/organ job at a bar, many many times. You know, good enough! Splitting the keyboard to cover LH bass and all that. Occasionally I'd get fancy and put it on top the old Rhodes piano, for jobs when maybe some piano would be needed/desired, as in accomodating some guests to play instrumental funk, or whatever, but that was then and bar jobs aren't what they used to be. Even low-stakes ones.
No doubt. There's no substitute for the real speaker (even the modern iterations) nor the real Hammond (it's been twenty years since I left my old A-10x back in Buffalo, land of the surplus organs and vintage pianos!), but, hey, I'm a pragmatist at this point. Not interested in playing out for a small group of friends and some innocent victims whilst shlepping a bunch of gear. Not anymore, anyway. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
At this point it's almost a Moby Dick situation: how much can I get away with minimalizing my own gear at home? Wouldn't call it an obsession, but just getting older. Too many books, too much stuff, all that.
/*edit And I will say, @nevershouldhavesoldit, the first track with the...sorry, can't remember, but Annie Ross sounding singer (no disrespect intended...she's amazing, I just can't recall now)...the Hammond sounds good. I hear more of the C/V than the Leslie effect, TBH, but I suppose that's one of the blurring effects of recorded sounds.
If I had more faith in my C/V effect, I'd just do old-school and use the Leslie as stationary speaker only, until tremolo were needed. Old school way, you know.
Great use of the expression pedal, and great comping, both voicings and volume and taste.
And, "Lady is a Tramp," also, great sound. Sounds like using both Leslie on chorale and C1 or so on the organ itself...sounds good. I suspect you're a both a bit more picky than I am about live sound, but also a bit of a pragmatist about what comes across to the audience.
With respect, I think I can get about the same with the XK-1 + Lester-K, but not necessarily in a live situation. IMHO the Hammond clonewheel game has become more about ergonomics and feel of the instrument of the instrument in its classic iterations at this point.
Sounds beautiful, though, and you can play, son! No doubting that! */Last edited by jackalGreen; 08-15-2023 at 10:15 PM.
-
Any advice choosing between the GP and the GP+? Does anyone one know what would be the best choice for a solid guitar player?
-
I think that depends on how and where you play - the guitar itself is irrelevant to this decision for me. I use a Tele, a carved archtop, or a laminated archtop (depending on the gig). FWIW, they're all 7 strings and the Toobs handle them just fine. But which one I use does not affect my choice of amp and speaker - the gig dictates that. Originally Posted by dioulios
The Jensen C6V in the standard Metro is a nice little speaker, and the GP is a very fine choice for smaller jazz & commercial gigs. It's also a great little speaker for playing almost anything at home - jazz, rock, blues, pop etc. Despite the 20W power rating of the Jensen driver, it's fine with amps like the 25W Quilter Superblock US as long as you're not pushing it to its limits. The + gives you a SICA driver that will handle 5 times the power (130W vs 20), and it has a set of wire legs that let it fire upwards.
Both of my Metros (GP and BG) are + models, so they both have identical SICA drivers. I've never used the 20W version, so I can't comment from experience. It's probably fine for small jazz gigs. But if you're playing with larger jazz bands or gigging on blues, rock, pop, or any serious commercial stuff, I'd go for the + and enough of a head to do it justice. My Superblock US is excellent for many jazz dates, but I have a DV Mark 250EG when I need power.
For the kind of playing I do, I'd get the BG+ for its slightly more solid bass and because pointing it upward lets you, the band, and the audience hear you better in most rooms large and small. Most cabinets beam to some degree when pointed at the audience. So those in the beam hear it too well and those out of the beam don't hear it at all well. Pointed upwards, it's effectively a point source that radiates sound 360 degrees around it. Between that and the reflections from ceiling and walls, it does an amazing job of projecting into a room. I generally point my "traditional" speaker cab(s) at the nearest wall, if there's one anywhere along the stage, so the sound disperses evenly in all directions. But when I use one of my Toobs on a gig, I stick it in a plant stand pointing upwards.
I hope that helps.
-
If the cab is meant for Quilter SuperBlock or other amps in the 20-30W category, the 20W GP is good choice. Despite similar stated sensitivity the Jensen C6V is markedly louder than the SICA. I just had a GP and GP+ side by side. With SBUS volume at 3 pm, and gain and all eq's at noon, the GP was 4-5 dB louder when hit hard. This was a quick & dirty experiment but confirms my earlier experience.
Disclaimer: I make the Metros
-
that’s also my rig (with a BAM200) Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit;[URL="tel:1303358"
also upfiring
I concur with your results re upfiring
its great for everyone to hear equally
love it ….
I don’t make Toobs
-
I’m a bit mystified at that, Markku. Originally Posted by Gitterbug
As you allude, both have manufacturers’ rated sensitivities of ~ 91 dB at 1 meter driven by 1 Watt. But there are no available plots of SPL against power input. To confirm your impression and even begin to figure out why, we’d need to measure acoustic outputs at 1 meter driven by the same amplifier at 1, 5, 10 and 25 W. We’d need these plots for the speakers both in the same standard infinite baffle used for sensitivity determinations and in the same Metro cabinet. And we’d need to run the same plots driven both by sine wave sweeps and by full spectrum input (white or pink noise).
If the Jensen is more than 3 dB louder than the SICA when driven with the same signal at the same 25W, it’s hard to explain unless the frequency response curves are dramatically different (which I don’t think they are) or the much higher power capacity of the SICA comes from progressively greater internal energy losses to heat, friction, damping etc than are present in the Jensen as power input increases.
If the latter is the case and the SICA needs far more wattage to achieve acoustic parity with the Jensen, I can’t see a reason to use high powered amps into a high power rated speaker when you’d get the same output from far less wattage with a low rated driver like the little Jensen (unless sound quality is better, and that does not seem to be the case).
Since we downsized to an apartment, I no longer have my studio, shop, and a place to crank things up. So I can’t run these tests myself. But inquiring minds want to know the answers. I’ll make some calls and see if I can get more insight for us. Of course, if the Jensen is only louder than the SICA in a Metro, you may have stumbled on the secret to 100% efficiency
PS: You might want to swap the drivers between those BGs and repeat your test, just to make sure there’s not some anomaly in one of the cabinets causing the difference you hear.
-
I tried to call Quilter all day & got voice mail on every extension. Seems a bit odd that there was no one there. I’ll keep trying. We need to understand those SPL vs frequency plots that seem to show the Aviator Cub’s hitting 132 dB.
Reply With Quote
Part 2 Secrets to McCoy Tyner using 4ths,...
Today, 07:31 PM in Improvisation