Kent Armstrong 12 Pole Floater: Neck Mount vs Side Mount

**gfinberg** · 02-13-2020, 04:56 PM

Hi,

I am about to buy a Kent Armstrong 12 Pole Floater for my archtop. I am after a dark, warm and fat tone like a routed in humbucker.

Can anyone advise as to whether the KA 12-pole neck mount (bracket mounted) or side mount (attached to pick guard) will give the darker sound.

Many thanks
Gary

**Spook410** · 02-13-2020, 05:21 PM

Doesn't matter how you mount a floating pickup in terms of how it will sound. Only the distance between the pickup and the strings matters. Changes in tone from built in pickups are due to inhibiting the vibration of the top. Theoretically anyway. Not sure how much it matters in laminates. To me it's something I notice when playing acoustic. Not so much when plugged in.

While pickups do sound different, and the 12 pole Armstrong has a very nice sound, 'darker' archtop sounds are often attributed to guitar construction. Like thicker tops and parallel bracing (dark I think.. don't own one) versus thinly carved tops and X bracing (bright which I can verify). Of course, it's all general and specifics and things like string gauge, pick type, and certainly amp/EQ figure into it all as well.

**jads57** · 02-13-2020, 05:39 PM

For me it somehow seems to be routed pickup vs floating style pickups. That said the floater always seems a bit airyer and brighter as opposed to the routed pickup.
The K.A 12 polepeice Floating Humbuckers is definitely the Gold Std,especially with l uthiers such as Comins, Elferink, Buscarino,etc..

**pingu** · 02-13-2020, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by gfinberg

Hi,

I am about to buy a Kent Armstrong 12 Pole Floater for my archtop. I am after a dark, warm and fat tone like a routed in humbucker.

Can anyone advise as to whether the KA 12-pole neck mount (bracket mounted) or side mount (attached to pick guard) will give the darker sound.

Many thanks
Gary

i heard from somewhere
that neck mount gives a darker sound ....
i can't verify that

**ccroft** · 02-13-2020, 10:18 PM

I have a carved top with a floater and another with set K.A. Vermont-made 12 pole. Both the same spec instruments. In mine I think the main difference plugged in is coming from the difference between lighter and heavier top carving, because I hear the same differences in the acoustic sound. In this case the floater is darker (!), and so is that instrument in general. The set one is in a much lighter guitar with thinner top that sounds 'airier' in every way.

I really doubt there's much difference between side and neck mount, as there doesn't seem to be a lot of difference between floating and routed in, odd as that may seem. I don't think a lot of people can compare the exact same pickup in both scenarios. I switch 'em up all week long.

I love this pickup. I can't imagine anything better for me. I'd get the one that was easiest to mount, which I imagine to be neck mount. Mostly you see side-mount out there, but I hear he'll make whatever you want if you ask nice.

Oh... and Borys, and Campellone, and Andersen, and Trenier, and Grimes, and Ribbeke and the list goes on... Anyone hear of Hopkins or Lehmann?

**Spook410** · 02-14-2020, 02:00 AM

Don't think the Armstrong pickguard mount is too easy an install. Heavy with a short tab and internal wiring to watch out for if you choose to drill/tap the tab for mounting. Still my favorite pickup though I have one of his single coils on the bench and I may like that even better.

**Cunamara** · 02-14-2020, 03:21 AM

My theory, which may well be all wet, is that the mounting does make a difference. A floater mounted to the pickguard Benedetto-style is mechanically isolated from the top to a much greater extent than a pickup routed into the top. The latter picks up more body resonance because the pickup is vibrating with the top under the strings, resulting in a more complex signal. The pickup mounted to the pick guard is vibrating less and if the player keeps his fingers on the guard he damps that movement even more. So this pickup reads more string, less body.

A pickup that is mounted on a bracket to the end of the neck will fall somewhere in between the other pickups in terms of responding to the resonance of the body. I think this is why electrically a Gibson Johnny Smith guitar sounds darker and fatter than a Benedetto of similar construction.

The DeArmond "monkey on a stick" pickups rested upon the body, picking up those resonances and thus having a fatter and darker sound even though they were single coil pickups.

I went to a pickup mounted on a bracket to the neck on my Benedetto style archtop and am much happier than I ever was with any pickup mounted to the pickguard. The current pickup is a Pete Biltoft CC style pickup; prior to that I had a modified Gibson Classic 57 mounted on a bracket to the neck but that was a very, very tight fit on the guitar. Before that I tried the Kent Armstrong 12 pole floater, a Johnny Smith style mini humbucker mounted to the pick guard and a monkey on a stick style pickup. I feel like I'm forgetting one. In any case the neck mounted CC pickup sounds fuller and fatter than any of the others, although this is far from being an apples to apples comparison given the construction of the different pickups. As a result, my opinion needs to be taken with a large grain of salt.

**JazzNote** · 02-14-2020, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Spook410

Don't think the Armstrong pickguard mount is too easy an install. Heavy with a short tab and internal wiring to watch out for if you choose to drill/tap the tab for mounting. Still my favorite pickup though I have one of his single coils on the bench and I may like that even better.

If mounted with a screw it's very easy to do, just drill the hole in the PU tab slightly larger than necessary so it can be moved a little to adjust to the ideal position.

If glued it get's a bit tricky to keep the ideal position of the PU when detaching the pickguard to apply the glue.

I did both several times and never had a problem with a tab being (too) short.

**sgosnell** · 02-14-2020, 10:49 AM

I'm not a fan of the pickguard mounted pickup, mostly because I'm not a fan of pickguards on archtops. I just don't see the need, and I generally remove them. I have settled on the DeArmond reissue Rhythm Chief for a floater. I put Blu-Tack between the top and the pickup, to give it a solid base and prevent having it bounce off the top under pressure and perhaps scar the top. Having the pickup closely coupled to the top this way gives a sound I really like, closer to a set pickup and not at all bright. I mount the controls in the treble f hole using heavy-duty mounting tape. If you have big pots this won't work, of course, but I use thumbwheel pots and it works well for me. On my next guitar* I may well dispense with the mounting rod and just attach the DeArmond with Blu-Tack, as I've seen a few players do. It saves putting holes in the side of the neck, and makes returning the guitar to a purely acoustic configuration very easy.

*My wife thinks I have too many guitars and don't need another, but my belief is that I haven't quite reached the optimal number, and one more might get me there.