Gigging without an amp?

[guavajelly]

Does anybody play (jazz) gigs without an amp on stage? What – if anything – are you using between the guitar and the mixing desk?

I've done it twice playing with soul outfits – telecasters into a little preamp (first had the Harley Benton American Sound then upgraded to a Tech21 Fly Rig – only to find out I don't need the built in effects) - but never a jazz gig. I'm in the situation that both tube amps I own (Fender Blues Junior and Vibrolux) do not quiet cut it for the band I'm in – they start to overdrive when I'm trying to cope with drums and organ. But the PAs are usually loud enough – so I'm thinking why not just plug the guitar cable in the mixing board? I know that many here do it for recordings, but what about gigs?
I like the direct tone of my Ibanez GB – is just plugging it straight into the mixer a viable option?

[Greentone]

First, Joe Pass and others used to plug into the house on gigs often enough.

I've done it with decent results. My only complaint is that I seem to get less "oomph" when I turn the guitar's volume knob up for a solo than I do from a guitar amp. (With the amp, I generally set things for the solo volume and back off from that with the guitar volume knob for a comping level.) I haven't asked the guy at the desk, but my guess is that there's compression/limiting going on that I don't get with my guitar amp.

Tone isn't bad, though.

[Little Jay]

You are relying solely on what is on stage as a monitor, unless you use an in-ear monitor with it's own mixer so you can dial in how you want to hear yourself (which seems like a pretty good idea now that I think of it..).

I once used my American sound into a stage monitor as my amp when my Twin quit working halfway the gig. It sound pretty good, but I agree with Greentone that I lacked dynamics and 'oomph'. (Probably because you will miss the interaction of speaker and OT of a tube amp, which is what defines 'tube amp feel' imho.)

[Little Jay]

You are relying solely on what is on stage as a monitor, unless you use an in-ear monitor with it's own mixer so you can dial in how you want to hear yourself (which seems like a pretty good idea now that I think of it..).

I once had to use my Joyo American Sound pedal into a stage monitor as my amp when my Twin quit working halfway the gig. It sound pretty good, but I agree with Greentone that I lacked dynamics and 'oomph'. (Probably because you will miss the interaction of speaker and OT of a tube amp, which is what defines 'tube amp feel' imho.)

[ronjazz]

Is there an echo in here?

[John A.]

There's no amp at the jam I frequent, and if no one brings one (which no one did until I started doing so), it's pretty frustrating. Enough so that I bought a small amp (Fender Champion 20) that I now bring with me. The difference between even this relatively low-end amp and a PA is pretty dramatic. Joe Pass often plugged into a PA in his last few years, but he was playing solo, in premier venues with good sound systems and monitors. For the OP's situation -- assuming you're talking about a BF or SF Vibrolux Reverb and not a Tweed Vibrolux -- if you're getting drowned out, the other guys are way too loud. You don't want to be loud enough to compete with that, you want them to turn down, at least if you care about your hearing.

John

[Alter]

Depends on the gig. If its a job, you make do with whatever works. Pa, amp, you do the gig. If it 's something i really enjoy, i bring a good amp, but not always (with my latest organ trio i bring two amps, a princeton reverb and an aer or a zt lunchbox cause we 're loud). That's why i love the Zt Lunchbox so much, it's so small that you bring an amp, even though you don't bring an amp! It's the perfect events amp. No more problems with soundmen, monitoring, onstage mixing etc, you always hear yourself fine, and life is easy. Have to park half a mile away or walk for 5 minutes inside a museum, cross a crowded summer island etc.. no problem!

But i've done tours and seasons of 5 nights a week without an amp on stage, it's certainly doable. Not my first choice though.

[sgosnell]

I usually use a Line6 wireless system, and the receiver on it has both XLR and 1/4" outputs. I've used both direct to a PA at one time or another, and they both work fine. I don't like using an instrument cable, and haven't since I discovered the GT10 wireless system. If you don't need effects, it's an excellent way to go.

[jads57]

Boss Micro Cube direct out sounds great! Under $100!

[archtopeddy]

Boss Micro Cube direct out sounds great! Under $100!

I recorded an entire Django inspired surf album using a Micro Cube to a board. Worked great!

[marcwhy]

Of course, "it depends" on the venue.
Most of my gigs are smaller venues, so there's no need for a PA. At larger spaces, or outdoor events, then yes, a PA is available for use.

If you spend time on other forums, like The Gear Page or Talkbass, it may be 50-50: "Amps?! We don't use no stinkin' amps!" or "Amps?! I have 10, and use each for different gigs/bands!" etc. I think for the non-amp players, the important thing is to (somehow) get a consistent sound at whatever venue, which typically means using the same pedal (i.e., pre-amp) or pedal-board. Going to a gig with a guitar and cable, expecting to have a good PA, seems risky ...

[sgosnell]

Another option is to use a small head that has DI. I have used my GK MB-200 this way. It lets me select, with the push of a tiny button, whether the DI is before or after the amp's tone stack. Some (many) amps don't allow this selection, and you get what you get. That may or may not be an issue for everyone. Modern small heads are very portable, small and light, easy to carry, and work as a PA interface without a speaker cabinet if desired, or allow the use of a cabinet as a monitor. It's up to the individual to decide how much is enough.

[Little Jay]

Is there an echo in here?

Hahaha, yes it seems so! (I edited my post and now it’s there twice.... Tapatalk glitch perhaps...)

[guavajelly]

For the OP's situation -- assuming you're talking about a BF or SF Vibrolux Reverb and not a Tweed Vibrolux -- if you're getting drowned out, the other guys are way too loud. You don't want to be loud enough to compete with that, you want them to turn down, at least if you care about your hearing.

It's a "Custom" Vibrolux and designed to be a blues amp and to break up early. And it has inefficient alnico speakers. In fact it has no more clean headroom than the 15 watt blues junior. It is "loud enough" but it doesn't stay clean – though using the second (low) input. Don't worry bout the hearing. We are not that loud but dynamic and I want the guitar to be heard over the drums when I play the melody or take a solo AND stay clean. Our stage volume is higher than the average jazz band but surely not excessive.

[cosmic gumbo]

I got talked into sitting in for a set on a friend's blues trio gig, no amp, into PA with no stage monitor. I couldn't hear myself at all, and I will never, ever, play without being able to hear myself on stage again.

[sgosnell]

For that type situation, a small combo with DI, or a micro head w/ DI and a small cabinet, makes sense. Portable, and you only need enough volume from the speaker to hear yourself. Ideally, the venue will have a cabinet that can be used as a monitor and you only need the head, but of course that's not always the case.

[pingu]

One thing that should be mentioned is that
if you're going straight into the board
you should have a device to buffer/impedance match the guitar
to the board

could be a DI , preamp , a pedal or an amp head or whatnot
but you need something or youll have an impedance mismatch
and your tone will suffer

"Technical Editor Hugh Robjohns replies: An electric guitar ideally needs to work into an impedance of around 1M? or thereabouts. The line inputs of most sound consoles and mixers (I'm assuming that you had previously been plugging your guitar into a line input) generally have an impedance of about 10 to 50 k? — way too low to allow a guitar's pickups to work properly. The Boss pedal will have a much higher input impedance, and the guitar sounds a lot better because its pickups can work more effectively."

A good sound guy will have DIs (for this exact reason) but it's probably best
to bring something suitable yourself and while you're there having some tone controls
and the fx you need ....
I got a Harley Benton American truetone for this purpose (very cheap)
And it works well for this ...

[Alter]

Another great one is the venue DI. Excellent results with acoustics, nylon and jazz guitars, 4 band eq, ground lift and phase, solo boost, tuner, the works.

[Little Jay]

One thing that should be mentioned is that
if you're going straight into the board
you should have a device to buffer/impedance match the guitar
to the board

A good sound guy will have DIs (for this exact reason) but it's probably best
to bring something suitable yourself and while you're there having some tone controls
and the fx you need ....
I got a Harley Benton American truetone for this purpose (very cheap)
And it works well for this ...[/FONT][/COLOR]

I think the Joyo/Harley Benton is the cheapest solution yielding professional sounding results for this situation. I also like to use a (spring) reverb pedal with it, as I don’t like most reverb in mixers (if they have it at all).

[sgosnell]

I'm not a fan of the Joyo, but it works. Not to be a broken record, but a newer wireless system works better for me. The Line 6 Relay G10 has both XLR and 1/4" low impedance outs on the receiver, and sounds really good IME. It all fits in the guitar case, and there is no need for a cable to get tangled. And you can put it wherever it's convenient, doesn't need to be near you, or even in sight.

[guavajelly]

Will just a passive DI-box work?

[pingu]

Will just a passive DI-box work?

yes