The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabor
    ...then raise more... :-)

    Regarding still too bright: Pick matters. Try jazz picks like below. You may have some loss of articulation and loss on control volume nuances, but will be less bight for sure. The main benefit is on the high E and B (supposing you are using a set with wound G, which is also recommended)

    Attachment 68516
    Been using clayton acetal rounded triangle 1.52mm. I have some jazz iii's regular and tortex, big stubbys, etc. Clayton still has the best tone imo. Gave the action another raise and it's seemed to have helped.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by arielcee
    Been using clayton acetal rounded triangle 1.52mm. I have some jazz iii's regular and tortex, big stubbys, etc. Clayton still has the best tone imo. Gave the action another raise and it's seemed to have helped.
    I ruled out big stubbys, because their surface makes noise and unions all the drawbacks of heavy and light picks (imho) like surprisingly unwanted highs, and loss control of articulation.

    Material matters in the tone character similarly like EQ. Btw the pick what is the best for a particular instrument not necessary fits to an other, so I have no favourite pick, instead best match. Also the pick which is the best match for acoustic may or may not be the best match for electric for the very same instrument.

    I am glad the action raise helped some. The tipical sign to be alerted is the zingy zangy character and the weak and muted type sound. This still is there when action raised above fret buzz, so action must be raised toward except you are using a way high cut (low pass) EQ, and delay + reverb like Pat Metheny in Rejoicing. The high cut will eliminate the zing zang, and the delay + reverb will correct the missing singing character, so with this gear you can go for the extreme minimum action. But I guess, that is not your cup of tea, if you named Herb Ellis. One last idea, you must pick with some energy, which has attack, to get a decent sound like Herb Ellis, Jim Hall, or Jesse van Ruller, or Peter Bernstein.
    Last edited by Gabor; 01-26-2020 at 04:01 PM.

  4. #28

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    The H575 in particular would be one I would have suggested you try out but if an Aria HE didn't do it for you another Yama may be your best bet.

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by arielcee
    Feeling like I've hit a dead end with guitars (I'm sure many here have)

    So I just got my ar371 back from the shop, having them put a SD '59 in. It has 12 chromes. I honestly feel pretty underwhelmed. It just sounds and feels dead. Not that they are designed for everlasting sustain or great elrctric sound, but I was hoping for something a little better. It just doesn't seem to have much body; too bright.
    I've gone through a bunch of guitars in the last two years including:
    Yamaha AE1200 (should have kept that one ugh)
    Univox Barney Kessel
    Aria Pro Herb Ellis
    Ibanez AM93
    Ibanez AF75
    Cort Source
    Several solids including tele and LP.
    And this Eastman.





    I'd probably turn the BASS all the way down on the amp and try to get some of those other guitars back if you sold them...

  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by arielcee
    Feeling like I've hit a dead end with guitars ...
    I wonder if the problem isn’t the guitars but something downstream in the signal chain: amp, speaker or your tone control settings. My impression (with earphones) is that your tone has scooped midrange. I’ve found that some scoop can be desirable with a band but when playing solo or duo can take life out of the tone.

  7. #31

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    This is a cheap easy potential solution: MXR Micro Amp +. You can return and get your money back if it doesn't work.

  8. #32

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    Hmm.. for the price of a used car you could follow all the advice in this thread. And you still might not like your tone. Interesting.

    I've had pretty good luck with inexpensive guitars like Washburn's and D'Angelico's. And the Seymour Duncan '59 pickup. Still, the Eastman is going to be bright. That's Eastman in general. You're already using one of the best picks for a soft/round sound. You could go to flat wounds but that will cost some acoustic tone and in a swing band not sure how that would be.

    My suggestion would be .012 or even .013 round wounds and a proper EQ pedal. Empress has a very good one in their Parametric EQ. Roll down above 8Khz a bit. Maybe just a little up in the 200hz-300hz range then mid's to taste. Another possibility would the xotic EP boost. Not for the boost but for the EQ it applies. While I don't care for it on acoustic instruments, I could see it being good at taking a thin sound and making it thicker.

  9. #33

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    Sincerely appreciate all the input. Took Gabor's advice and raised the action some which did seem to help. After going through different amp settings and picks, back and forth between guitars, etc. I realize as several have noted, it's still just going to be a bright guitar. I'm more used to the p-up being closer to the neck. If the neck was a little skinnier and body a tad thinner I may give it more time but for my personal needs it feels more loss than gain at this point. But certainly worth the experience. There's a relatively limited supply of jazzboxes in the area via store or classified and don't mind the adventure.

  10. #34

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    I'm hearing you arielcee. I'm thinking about keeping one nice carved top for more intimate at-home stuff, but I have a hard time getting a good *loud* archtop sound in live situations.

  11. #35

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    One way to get more bass out of the guitar is with the pick as mentioned. Use a thicker one, and mainly avoid ones with a pointy edge, as they sound more trebly. Also work with the angle you hit the strings, a slanted angle can reduce treble. You can go to extremes tone wise with your pick attack if you put in the work. Try round strings if you are using flats and your guitar sounds dead to you.

    But some guitars are brighter than others. And some pickups too. Bass is a classic problem when gigging with an archtop, its feedback etc. I use a semi hollow Gibson 335 as a solution, but really should get a good laminate hollow body..

    Keep trying guitars, and try to find and play some really good ones. It could be that your aesthetic has developed to where medium category archtops don't do it for you any more, it could be a technique issue or just a preference towards a different kind of guitar, but it could also be that you haven't found the right guitar yet. Lots of budget hollow bodies have that "wood" sound. I'd try the cheaper solutions first!

  12. #36

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    Have you tried an Epiphone Broadway or Emperor Regent?

    They often show up on used gear sites and can often be had for peanuts. A Broadway would give you that mellow tone you’re looking for and it has that slim neck profile you prefer. Plus it looks like a legit classic jazz guitar. Maybe not early jazz period, but the bloopy bebop sound is in the Broadway more so than the smaller body guitars you’ve been trying.

    I make this recommendation assuming you don’t have 2 or 3 grand to lay out for an ES-165 or ES-175. My favorite budget jazz box is the Epi Broadway.

    Good luck!

    Roli

  13. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by rolijen
    Have you tried an Epiphone Broadway or Emperor Regent?

    They often show up on used gear sites and can often be had for peanuts. A Broadway would give you that mellow tone you’re looking for and it has that slim neck profile you prefer. Plus it looks like a legit classic jazz guitar. Maybe not early jazz period, but the bloopy bebop sound is in the Broadway more so than the smaller body guitars you’ve been trying.

    I make this recommendation assuming you don’t have 2 or 3 grand to lay out for an ES-165 or ES-175. My favorite budget jazz box is the Epi Broadway.

    Good luck!

    Roli
    The Broadway is a very good guitar. It has the L5ces look but is slimmer, has the faster neck, but I love mine and reach for it daily. And I have an L5ces in the very same room. Likewise, the Epi ES175 Premium is a very fine guitar if someone wants a slim neck.

  14. #38

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    I kind of gone on a journey of archtops, and mostly Eastman's to be honest, and one Benedetto. The Benedetto was an incredible guitar (Bambino), but I moved it because I just didn't really connect with it like I had hoped I would (which bummed me out, but that's life). Last week, I grabbed an Eastman T184MX to get something "jazzy", versatile, and relatively budget friendly.

    That's my long-winded way of saying that you really have to try out a lot of guitars to determine what's going to work best for you. I get the aesthetic part of your gig, but you have to play something that works. Spook410 offered great advice too, an EQ pedal can do wonders to shape your tone, especially a good one. I'm also using a Red Bear Big Jazzer, and find that the material helps tame some harsh trebles on every guitar I use.

  15. #39

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    If I couldn’t afford the real deal, here’s the one I would swing for:

    Archtop Tribute AT105 NEW Natural / incl. Hard Case / Made in | Reverb