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  1. #1

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    When you have a pedal that claims to emulate or model a specific amp, like the Boss FDR-1 65 Deluxe Reverb Pedal, or the Strymon Iridium, or many others like these... do you play these through any other amp? Like the Boss FDR-1 through Princeton Reverb, would it sound like a Deluxe (within the limits of what the pedal can do that is)? Or do you need a FRFR type of amp? More PA like?

    I have a Boss FDR-1 coming, and I'm curious what amp I should play it through to get the best sense of what the pedal does.

    Incidentally, I am developing a possibly unhealthy (economically) preoccupation with the Fender Deluxe Reverb sound... pray for me!

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  3. #2

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    Not sure if this will help (as it's kind of a non-answer), but I just play my Helix through the clean channel of an amp that has a fairly flat EQ. I do everything else through the modeler. I do like the FRFR cabs I've used, but not enough to buy one just yet. I find no issues with IRs and and sims sounding really good right through whatever amp I'm using.

  4. #3

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    I would say through the cleanest sounding amp you have. TBH, I can't help but wonder about the degree to which the amp you use will ultimately colour the sound...

  5. #4

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    Roland/Boss recommends a Jazz Chorus amp which actually means any clean platform would work well - probably better going with solid state to avoid tube coloration. I do have a Boss FDR - 1 (purchased as a "backup amp") and play it at home through a seventies Peavey Backstage 30 SS amp. It's a good sounding pedal imo.

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone

    Incidentally, I am developing a possibly unhealthy (economically) preoccupation with the Fender Deluxe Reverb sound... pray for me!
    I don't blame you. Deluxe Reverb is my favorite amp. Whenever I try to convince myself to buy an amp, I A/B that amp with a Deluxe Reverb in the store, that cures it

    It's dynamic and articulate like a small amp, warm and deep like a big amp. It's the perfect size for gigs and home use and it's not very heavy.

    Ironically if you're looking for an amp that doesn't get in the way of modellers and amp-in-a-box pedals, I'd normally say get a Deluxe Reverb

    Some pedals like Helix hx stomp aren't really intended to be used with amps. Some on the other hand like tech 21 modellers are designed for amps. But I imagine as long as it let's you turn off the IR, any of these will work well with an amp that has good head room and not too colored (ie not tweed).

  7. #6

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    I bought a Boss Katana Artist (I am not worthy...) last year; a Katana Artist Mark 2 just debuted at NAMM 2020. I ran a borrowed Helix, Kemper, AX8 through its Acoustic setting. Without looking for a faithful replica of any amp but shooting for a pleasant useable tone and dynamics of a clean amp the Katana Artist (and its brethren) did the job admirably well. A modelled or sampled Deluxe Reverb did sound somewhat like a midscooped DR. The tone was eminently useable and it had that Amp In The Room sound as it was a combo-amp and openbacked speaker cabinet-in the room. Playing through a powered PA was not quite the same; not as satisfying to me as it lacked that Amp In The Room tone and feel. The Boss Katana Artist does not sound like it has fire bottles but it has a functionally good tone.

    I suppose the Boss DR pedal would work rather well with one of its Katana Mark 1s or Mark 2s via its Acoustic channel. But the Boss Katana Clean model is probably that of a Fender DR so the Boss DR pedal might well be redundant with it.

    For the price of a Boss Katana, you get an amp that is an affordable good sounding pedal platform.

  8. #7

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    I've got a Quilter Interblock 45 that has a FRFR setting for EQ and an FRFR output option. I'm wondering if that's going to be the best vehicle for this pedal?

  9. #8

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    This can be a deeeeep rabbit hole. Options:

    Modeler into power amp into cab loaded with guitar speakers, with the IR or speaker emulation bypassed on the modeler. Probably best bet for actually sounding / feeling like a guitar amp. If you are after a small number of sounds that would generally work with the speaker cabinet you have on hand, this could work very well. (Not sure there’s much benefit to this approach versus owning the actual amp out right, though.)

    Modeler into FRFR studio monitors or PA speakers with IR or speaker emulation enabled on modeler. This should be the holy grail, but having gone down this road a few times, it was, for me, a non-stop, digital-knob-spinning tweak-fest for a sound and feel that is *never* as good as a real amp sitting in the room with me. I think a lot of it has to do with how differently PA speakers disperse sound compared to open-back guitar cabs. Primary benefit, I think, would be for the serious gigging musician who needs lots and lots of different kinds of sounds and the simplicity of running a line out to the house sound system. I badly wanted to like these setups (I’ve had a few), but in the end it was a waste of time and money.

    You might have success running into the front end preamp of a guitar amp combo, but I can’t see the benefit of modeling a preamp and speaker cab and then running them through another pre-amp and guitar speaker.

  10. #9

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    FRFR-PA drivers tend to sound and respond rather "stiffly" like hifi loudspeakers. The sound that comes from a powered PA speaker sounds like a recorded amp played back, not a live Amp In The Room. It is not satisfying because it puts up a 4th wall between you and your guitar and amp.

    One of best sounds I have heard on Youtube was that of Hideo Sato playing his jazzboxes through a Milkman The Amp 50 driving a Raezer's Edge Mini 6. If funds permit, that is a pair up that works well with any pedal ahead of it. I am on the list for the new Milkman The Amp 100 to power the 2x10 coaxial Eminence Beta 10CX + ASD1001 Tweeter Raezer's Edge cab I bought.

  11. #10

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    I've gotten great results on numerous rock, pop and pit-band gigs using a modeler into the effects return input of my Acoustic Image amps.

    Danny W.

  12. #11

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    Understand, guys, I'm not talking about one of those 1000 amps in a box modelers. I'm talking about the Boss FDR-1 Deluxe Reverb emulator pedal that Fender and Boss reputedly developed together. I just want to get the most "deluxe reverb-ness" out of it that I can. I do not plan to buy another amp just to run this pedal through it. I might just plug it directly into the recording interface and see what happens. Should know tomorrow!

  13. #12

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    You might find it useful to watch the Wampler Youtube videos of their amp-in-a-box models (Thirty Something, Black 65, Tweed 57 etc) where Brian Wampler plugs them into other tube amps and gives advice for their optimal use. I have the Black 65 and the Thirty Something and I plug them into the effect return of my Fender GB HRDx (40 W tube amp). Works great !

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    Understand, guys, I'm not talking about one of those 1000 amps in a box modelers. I'm talking about the Boss FDR-1 Deluxe Reverb emulator pedal that Fender and Boss reputedly developed together. I just want to get the most "deluxe reverb-ness" out of it that I can. I do not plan to buy another amp just to run this pedal through it. I might just plug it directly into the recording interface and see what happens. Should know tomorrow!
    I'm afraid it sounds like you've already crossed Deluxe Reverb's event horizon.

  15. #14

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    Actually it's fine with me if folks want to engage in a "friendly hi-jack" of the thread to talk about amps going with pedals. I think I"ve got my question answered so if others want to veer off in other pedal-amp directions, that's fine by me.

  16. #15

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    The Boss FDR-1 appears to be an amp modeler only. As opposed to pedals like the Strymon Iridium that model amps and simulate speaker cabinets. That means you have to provide the cabinet simulation part yourself. So I would see it plugged into a clean hifi amp (to get the sound of the pedal) driving a guitar cabinet. Like an open back 1X12.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by wzpgsr
    This can be a deeeeep rabbit hole.
    This is one of the wisest posts in the history of JGO.
    ?

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
    I bought a Boss Katana Artist (I am not worthy...) last year; a Katana Artist Mark 2 just debuted at NAMM 2020. I ran a borrowed Helix, Kemper, AX8 through its Acoustic setting. Without looking for a faithful replica of any amp but shooting for a pleasant useable tone and dynamics of a clean amp the Katana Artist (and its brethren) did the job admirably well. A modelled or sampled Deluxe Reverb did sound somewhat like a midscooped DR. The tone was eminently useable and it had that Amp In The Room sound as it was a combo-amp and openbacked speaker cabinet-in the room. Playing through a powered PA was not quite the same; not as satisfying to me as it lacked that Amp In The Room tone and feel. The Boss Katana Artist does not sound like it has fire bottles but it has a functionally good tone.

    I suppose the Boss DR pedal would work rather well with one of its Katana Mark 1s or Mark 2s via its Acoustic channel. But the Boss Katana Clean model is probably that of a Fender DR so the Boss DR pedal might well be redundant with it.

    For the price of a Boss Katana, you get an amp that is an affordable good sounding pedal platform.
    "...fire bottles...." I'ma totally stealing that! Thanks, Jabbs!

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    When you have a pedal that claims to emulate or model a specific amp, like the Boss FDR-1 65 Deluxe Reverb Pedal, or the Strymon Iridium, or many others like these... do you play these through any other amp? Like the Boss FDR-1 through Princeton Reverb, would it sound like a Deluxe (within the limits of what the pedal can do that is)? Or do you need a FRFR type of amp? More PA like?

    I have a Boss FDR-1 coming, and I'm curious what amp I should play it through to get the best sense of what the pedal does.

    Incidentally, I am developing a possibly unhealthy (economically) preoccupation with the Fender Deluxe Reverb sound... pray for me!
    Honestly, I don't know. but I'd sure like to find out! Sounds like just the thing to plug into my Vibro Champ or my Acoustic Image Corus III combo or my Plexi, for that matter! As a longtime DR user, I've used the sweet li'l thing for Jazz, Blues, Country, Pop, whatevs.... It's classic for a reason - it just sounds so good!

  20. #19

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    I’d try it with your Quilter. I think it will sound fine. I’ve used a Tech 21 Blonde pedal (Nails many Fender sounds with its “Character” knob) and a Catalinbread Formula 5F6 pedal (Think Fender Tweed). These pedals make many clean amps sound like Fender tube amps!

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    Understand, guys, I'm not talking about one of those 1000 amps in a box modelers. I'm talking about the Boss FDR-1 Deluxe Reverb emulator pedal that Fender and Boss reputedly developed together. I just want to get the most "deluxe reverb-ness" out of it that I can. I do not plan to buy another amp just to run this pedal through it. I might just plug it directly into the recording interface and see what happens. Should know tomorrow!
    If you don’t mind monitoring through studio monitors or headphones, you could probably get pretty good results by going pedal—>DAW with an IR plopped into a plug-in like Space Designer (Logic for macOS). Auditioning IRs is a whole ‘nother rabbit hole, though. Round-trip latency can become an issue if you are sensitive to that sort of thing.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by citizenk74
    "...fire bottles...." I'ma totally stealing that! Thanks, Jabbs!
    I take no credit for that. I stole that off someone. I don't remember whom or I would credit him or her. (Sorry, just not comfortable with the wussy "them" as gender neutral singular; how did we get there? I vote "it". Pity the European languages with gendered grammar. What a mess. I was brought up by a strict grammarian. She would have positively flipped positively at the state of grammar today.)

  23. #22

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    I chased the modeling Line 6 etc. model as far as seems reasonable and their constant need to keep me hook line and sinker w/some new variation that incrementally gets me closer to the stage version finally just wore me out (enough!)

    Personally I think the best way to get the in the box version of modeling onto the stage would be to not use a guitar amp at all but rather approach it more like a stereo system on steroids

    Good luck w/the journey!

    RF

  24. #23

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    I'd probably go with the flattest thing you can find. One thing that hasn't been mentioned ( which might open up another rabbit hole) is the two notes cab m. A power amp/cab simulator pedal. That should theoretically give you what you're missing, and you can run it out to headphones or a pa, frfr whatever thing.

    No guarantees on feel, though. I have one and don't use it nearly as much as I thought I would. But it is neat, if you're willing to dive into ir's and cab simulation. The app they have is very helpful, and much better than trying to use the two encoders.

    This would be you, basically:


    More info, explanations:

  25. #24

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    Sort of related as far as getting Deluxe Reverb sound with a pedal:

  26. #25

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    ...for my BOSS GT-001 (same as GT-100) only headphone worked .

    I tried DV Mark 12, Fender Mustang in clean studio preamp setting and Bugera V5 Infinium.
    The sad truth is that the sound coming out has nothing to do with the modelled amp, not even close, except if using a headphone...

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabor
    ...for my BOSS GT-001 (same as GT-100) only headphone worked .

    I tried DV Mark 12, Fender Mustang in clean studio preamp setting and Bugera V5 Infinium.
    The sad truth is that the sound coming out has nothing to do with the modelled amp, not even close, except if using a headphone...
    I'm still at the shallow end of the vast, deep and unknown modeling amp/IR pool. While many posters advocate clean and flat amps, the speaker within has received very little attention. Guitar speakers always have a trough and a hump in their response curve. That has already been modeled into the outgoing signal, which should then be projected as faithfully as possible. Bringing it to another guitar speaker inevitably colors the tone. This is why headphones work better. Celestion and Jensen have recently introduced 12", 100-150W FRFR Neo speakers, and I have a couple of those Jensens awaiting further testing in my TOOB cabs. I expect the half-open 12B bass version to give the best result. A jazz guitarist doesn't need a 1,000W PA cab onstage. Any good Class D 200 W bass head will work. For example, a TOOB 12FR / TC Electronic BAM 200 combination would weigh about 12 lbs and cost around 500 USD. A telescopic version of the cab adds a couple of hundreds.

    SICA (Jensen's parent brand) also has a fantastic 6.5" FRFR speaker which I'm using in the new TOOB Metro 6.5FR version. The Quilter Interblock is a perfect match if the clean headroom is enough for the player's volume needs. The SICA handles up to 130W, so the BAM is again a good amp option. Eminence's Alphalite 6A speaker also does a good job but is more expensive.

    While I brought up these concrete examples from my own small world, I'm not wearing a salesman's hat - yet. Further understanding and testing I required at this end. But if there's volunteers out there, send me a PM.

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