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  1. #1

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    I was looking at the Ibanez hollow bodies. among them was the AKJV95 as well as the GBs and the Pat Metheny 200.

    It doesnt look like they make the JV95 anymore..?? nice axe... what do you think about the GB models???

    I would like to buy used. And I play more fusion than anything else at a moderate level.

    Do you see many used JV95s?

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  3. #2

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    I don't know where you are but here is a made in Japan (Matsumoku) 175 copy for around 500 USD. I played it. It's the only copy I played that nails the 175 tone:
    70’s Aria 175 Copy | Paul's Boutique
    Last edited by Tal_175; 01-08-2020 at 08:47 AM.

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    I don't know where you are but here is a Made in Japan (Matsumoku) 175 copy for around 500 USD. I played it. It's the only copy I played that nails the 175 tone:
    70’s Aria 175 Copy | Paul's Boutique
    isn't that essentially the herb ellis model? I've owned a bunch of them and they are great guitars but don't sound like a 175.

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    isn't that essentially the herb ellis model? I've owned a bunch of them and they are great guitars but don't sound like a 175.
    Yeah, it's hard to talk about one ES 175 sound. I was at the store to test an amp so I needed an ES 175 type guitar. Compared to other hollow bodies in the store (some Ibanez's and a Godin), that guitar sounded a lot like what I perceive as the ES 175 tone (or a Gibson archtop tone with slight generalization). Full, fat, dynamic sound with clear presence. Ibanez models sounded more compressed like a semi hollow.
    It's a good guitar but frets were a bit low.

  6. #5

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    You could also look into the Eastman AR371/372 guitars. They are essentially ES175 clones - with a single/double pickup configuration (respectively).

    I picked up a used 371SB this past spring, and love it.


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  7. #6

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    I you're looking at used guitars then the Ibanez PM100s usually are priced well. (The predecessor to the PM200) .... Really great sounding guitars.

    The GB10s are also very cool, but less 175 like than the PM100

  8. #7

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    If you want something close to the 175 sound, go for a 1970s Ibanez 2355 - a pure 175 copy. there a replenty of them around for between 1,000 and 1,500 USD. - Most will be fitted with Super 70 maxon pickups, but you may be lucky enough to get a later one with the excellent Super 58s which come very close to the genuine PAF sound (just slightly higher/hotter output). I speak from experience owning both a 1961 ES-175 with PAFs and a 1980 Ibanez AS200 with super 58s.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    Yeah, it's hard to talk about one ES 175 sound. I was at the store to test an amp so I needed an ES 175 type guitar. Compared to other hollow bodies in the store (some Ibanez's and a Godin), that guitar sounded a lot like what I perceive as the ES 175 tone (or a Gibson archtop tone with slight generalization). Full, fat, dynamic sound with clear presence. Ibanez models sounded more compressed like a semi hollow.
    It's a good guitar but frets were a bit low.
    I don't agree that it's hard to define the 175 tone. The 175 tone is very distinctive and there's a very common standard for it. The Eastman 371/372 do not sound like a 175 by the way.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray175
    If you want something close to the 175 sound, go for a 1970s Ibanez 2355 - a pure 175 copy. there a replenty of them around for between 1,000 and 1,500 USD. - Most will be fitted with Super 70 maxon pickups, but you may be lucky enough to get a later one with the excellent Super 58s which come very close to the genuine PAF sound (just slightly higher/hotter output). I speak from experience owning both a 1961 ES-175 with PAFs and a 1980 Ibanez AS200 with super 58s.
    Those have maple necks and sound very bright compared to the '60s 175s.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    I don't agree that it's hard to define the 175 tone. The 175 tone is very distinctive and there's a very common standard for it. The Eastman 371/372 do not sound like a 175 by the way.
    I do hear differences between ES 175's I played. Difference between 59 reissue's and modern ones are very clear to me for example. I played ES 175 copies that were less different in sound to modern ES 175's than 59 reissues are (the Aria above is one) . On the other hand I played old Harmonies that had were closer to 59 reissues than modern ES 175's get.

    Although I agree Eastman 371's do not sound like ES 175's modern or vintage. The Benedetto roots of Eastman's apply to the 371 and 372 models as well despite the cosmetics.

  12. #11

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    i agree the reissues are outliers and I wouldn't compare them to the classic tones but the guitars in the '60s and 70-72 and then '83 - mid '90s have what I consider the classic 175 tone. In my facebook group "modern jazz guitar" there are 7-10 guys who regularly post clips of their vintage 175s and they have a very identifiable and common tone. The benedettos don't sound like 175s and I agree that the eastmans have a benedetto vibe to them but if you're looking for a 175 clone, the 371/372 ain't it.

  13. #12

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    Jack,

    The Aria in the picture above is an early-70s Matsumoku effort. It pre-dates the Herb Ellis model by about five years. It is a different guitar. I've played both. I like both. IMO, neither is as "175" as the comparable period effort from Ibanez. All three, however, sound and play great.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    Those have maple necks and sound very bright compared to the '60s 175s.
    It depends. The 2355 varies depending on what factory they sourced them from (I don’t think there’s a period to pinpoint). To my knowledge some of them definitely have mahogany necks, but I think I only saw them as laminated/3 piece necks, as did Gibson have in the 70ies. My 175 copy branded Condor definitely has a mahogany(-type) neck, but there are differences between Asian and South American mahogany (and African and Indian mahogany for that matter) and I think they do sound brighter indeed (but not as bright as the ones wirh maple necks).

    But the construction and body shape of the 2355 also varies. Some are true copies, with parallel bracing and the rubber grommet for the pickup selector switch, others have no (!) bracing but a sound post and are even lacking the kerfed lining that inforces the connection of bottom and top to the sides.

    The trick is to find a true copy with mahogany neck and the right construction with paralel bracing. Those come very close to the Gibsons. But prices of those are also rising. Still cheaper than 50ies and early 70ies Gibsons though.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by 995
    ... And I play more fusion than anything else at a moderate level. ...
    Then why do you want an ES-175? Seems like a Les Paul, or at least a solidbody (or perhaps semihollow), 2-humbucker guitar, might be better suited.

    What about a Comins GCS-1?

  16. #15

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    The Re-Issued 1990's (I think) Epiphone Zephyr Regent is a single pickup ES175 style guitar with mahogany neck and back/sides. With a good pickup they are wonderful guitars. They are lighter than contemporary ES165/175 models, more like a single pickup VOS 1959 ES175. I love mine and the Seymour Duncan Seth Love pickup was perfect for it.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by dconeill
    Then why do you want an ES-175? Seems like a Les Paul, or at least a solidbody (or perhaps semihollow), 2-humbucker guitar, might be better suited.

    What about a Comins GCS-1?
    I don't think anything is wrong with wanting an ES 175 to play fusion as Pat Metheny would attest. I can't blame them if a guitarist thinks an ES-175 is sexier than a solid body and likes it's vibe and tones better.
    Last edited by Tal_175; 01-08-2020 at 12:50 PM.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    I don't agree that it's hard to define the 175 tone. The 175 tone is very distinctive and there's a very common standard for it.

    OP is looking for a hollow body at a cheaper budget than an ES-175 that has a nice jazz vibe .. He is quite open about getting cheaper Ibanez guitars and non-175s like the GB10.

    Why not let people suggest what they like to him instead of getting down to some sort of useless nick picking contest about what an ES-175 is and is not.

    Are you really trying to tell me that Jonathan Kreisbergs maple necked 70s ES-175 isn't a guitar that I should want?

  19. #18

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    To the OP:

    Get a real 175. If money is an object, find a "players grade" one from the Norlin era.

    As has been said, "Ain't nothing like the real thing baby".

  20. #19

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    Gibson ES-175 Clones-ibanez20175-jpg

    #2 Gibson ES-175
    #10 Ibanez 2355 (ES-175 Copy)


  21. #20

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  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    The Re-Issued 1990's (I think) Epiphone Zephyr Regent is a single pickup ES175 style guitar with mahogany neck and back/sides. With a good pickup they are wonderful guitars. They are lighter than contemporary ES165/175 models, more like a single pickup VOS 1959 ES175. I love mine and the Seymour Duncan Seth Love pickup was perfect for it.
    I picked one up last year. Really a nice guitar and reflective of Korean quality at its best IMHO. Not overbuilt, not overpriced - just right. I haven't changed the pickup, but I will consider a SL in the future after I sell one guitar to thin out the herd. It won't be this Epi though. It's too nice for what it is.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    OP is looking for a hollow body at a cheaper budget than an ES-175 that has a nice jazz vibe .. He is quite open about getting cheaper Ibanez guitars and non-175s like the GB10.

    Why not let people suggest what they like to him instead of getting down to some sort of useless nick picking contest about what an ES-175 is and is not.

    Are you really trying to tell me that Jonathan Kreisbergs maple necked 70s ES-175 isn't a guitar that I should want?
    Why not let people reply to conversation in a natural way (I was replying to the subject header) instead of trying to police the flow of the conversation?

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    (I was replying to the subject header)

    Ahh sorry ... I forgot that your expertise was so great that you didn't have to read people post. My sincere apologies

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    Those have maple necks and sound very bright compared to the '60s 175s.
    I agree with LittleJay. Gibson ES-175s vary massively in tone, not only based on construction woods but also on hardware and strings - a TOM bridge with metal saddles will sound brighter than with nylon ones, and even more so than a wooden one. The same is true of the Ibanez 2355. I must have played more than 20 over the last 40 years - some had a "thunk" close to a 175, others a more bright tone, and everything in between. The only way to really know whether the sound is in the range you want is to try them with the amp you plan to use......
    What really makes the difference with Pat M's sound is the right type of toothbrush and the correct brand of masking tape! Choose well.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by lammie200
    I picked one up last year. Really a nice guitar and reflective of Korean quality at its best IMHO. Not overbuilt, not overpriced - just right. I haven't changed the pickup, but I will consider a SL in the future after I sell one guitar to thin out the herd. It won't be this Epi though. It's too nice for what it is.
    If you can't afford the Seth, I have been delighted and surprised by the Steward MacDonald Parson Street Golden Age PAF clone. Punches way above its class.

  27. #26
    thanks for replies. good info all around. I was leaning toward an Ibanez because I played an Ib acoustic years ago and still think about it. One of the good ones. I think they are rugged. And I want to spend about 800-1000$ if I can. I am adamant that it be maple body,no Linden, and maple neck if possible.It doesnt have to be stellar. And scratches dont bother me at all.
    If anyone sees one online and wants to message me feel free. I am going to sell my Collings acoustic to fund it.D2H 1992.
    I will try Reverb to see if I can trade also..

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    If you can't afford the Seth, I have been delighted and surprised by the Steward MacDonald Parson Street Golden Age PAF clone. Punches way above its class.
    Thanks. Not sure what to do yet, but I always wanted to give the SD SL a go. I have another surprise coming this year and want to sort it out before I get to this anyway. It is guitar related though, so I will be the only one stoked around the house once things fall into place. Hopefully all for the better.

  29. #28
    I see now online that Guitar center has tons of Ibanez clones... and they are cheap except the GBs are more.
    I guess the kids want solid bodies... good for me I want hollow..

  30. #29

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    That Ibanez AKJV95 is worth finding used. Mine came from a poster here. He very sensibly upgraded it in many ways. New tailpiece, better wooden bridge, new tuners, pots, nut. With the most important mod being Seth Lover p/us.

    Not an ES-175 clone. Shallower in depth, laminated spruce top vs. laminated maple of the ES-175. And the neck is 3 piece maple. Specs aside, it adds up to one of the best sounding and playing archtops I've tried so far. On the bright side, yes, the "just right" variety of bright. Very responsive to tone knob rolloff, so how bright or dark is user choice. The Seths in this guitar are perfect. A chacun son gout of course. To me, this AKJV95 is a real keeper.

  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by 995
    I see now online that Guitar center has tons of Ibanez clones... and they are cheap except the GBs are more.
    I guess the kids want solid bodies... good for me I want hollow..
    Maybe say "archtops" instead of clones? Clone implies "exact copy" in terms of construction, appearance, and sound. Ibanez does not make any 175 clones in that sense. They make a few models that have almost the same shape and dimensions, but different sound and construction, and others that have similar sound and construction but different shape and dimensions, and still others that are entirely different in all ways. But you seem to be lumping them all together as 175 clones. Ditto for Eastman. This had the effect of triggering the on-going argument here about the true essence of a 175 and whether or not anyone else truly replicates it. Also, maybe tell us what qualities you're actually looking for (perhaps by example of a recording).

    John
    Last edited by John A.; 01-09-2020 at 12:43 PM.

  32. #31

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    The Epiphone ES-175 Premium that they did a couple of years ago is worth a look too.
    It's got Gibson 57 pickups and a very authentic 175 vibe.
    The matte finish is a turn off for some buyers, but it is a solid 175 on the cheap.

    Also, I'm with Stringswinger -- why not get the real deal?

  33. #32

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    Epiphone is the only non-Gibson brand that is allowed to use the exact specs. They did it with Epiphone ES 175 premium. There are threads on the forum about that model. Exact specs, identical pickups, even nitro finish.

    No non-Gibson ES 175 will likely be as close to the original as those guitars. Looks like Epi did a very good job with them.

    In fact technically it's not any more a copy than Mexican Strat or Squire Strat are Strat copies.
    Last edited by Tal_175; 01-09-2020 at 01:43 PM.

  34. #33

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    Not the cheapest, but the Heritage H-575 is probably the closest to the original Gibson 175 $3500 USD

  35. #34

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    I have never been able to get a 175 sound out of any guitar except a 175. That said Lawson probably has the best answer in the Epi 175 I bet it come very close. The thread reminds me of the great L5 threads.

    If you want an L5 sound get and an L5............. So to the point I go with Professor Lawson he has the answer.

  36. #35

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    I picked up an AKJV95 last summer and have been playing it quite regularly ever since. It feels right to me, sounds a bit bright, very happy with it overall.

  37. #36

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    Would an ES165 be considered an ES175 clone? If so, its as close to the 'real thing' as one can get.

  38. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gitfiddler
    Would an ES165 be considered an ES175 clone? If so, its as close to the 'real thing' as one can get.
    They are great guitars and were undervalued a lot longer that ES-175s were, but they are different animals IMHO. Maple ply back and sides for one. Also, I don't think that they ever used the same pickup. There is also the floater version. Obviously not comparable with a 175.

  39. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by lammie200
    They are great guitars and were undervalued a lot longer that ES-175s were, but they are different animals IMHO. Maple ply back and sides for one. Also, I don't think that they ever used the same pickup. There is also the floater version. Obviously not comparable with a 175.
    I have a 90's ES165 and it's superb, but yes, the pickup is different though the sound is not radically different. Noticeable, though. I think on a budget the Epiphone Zephyr Regent Re-issue is also excellent. Mahogany back, sides, neck, one pickup. Put a good PAF equivalent in there and you'll have something. They resemble the VOS1959 ES175 more than they do the heavier, modern ES175/ES165.

    Somewhere eon this forum I have a "shoot out" amongst several of these 175 type guitars. I'll see if I can find it.

  40. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by lammie200
    They are great guitars and were undervalued a lot longer that ES-175s were, but they are different animals IMHO. Maple ply back and sides for one. Also, I don't think that they ever used the same pickup. There is also the floater version. Obviously not comparable with a 175.
    Pickups are different but that's easy to change if so desired. Both ES 175 and 165's have maple ply back and sides typically with the exception of 80's 175's which had mahogany I believe.
    I think 165's being single pickup is the big difference. Single pickup modern 175 is a real rarity.

  41. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    I don't agree that it's hard to define the 175 tone. The 175 tone is very distinctive and there's a very common standard for it. The Eastman 371/372 do not sound like a 175 by the way.
    The Es-175 tone between the 50's and 70's, between the 80's and 2010's, are all different to some degree imo.

    People say Joe Pass has the typical Es-175 tone but he played two different types so i suspect there's a kind of placebo effect going on.

    Wes Montgomery didn't have an easily defined Es-175 tone. I think the easily defined ES-175 tone is mostly old recordings with flattened amp eq's on a shorter scale neck.

  42. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by 995
    I was looking at the Ibanez hollow bodies. among them was the AKJV95 as well as the GBs and the Pat Metheny 200.

    It doesnt look like they make the JV95 anymore..?? nice axe... what do you think about the GB models???

    I would like to buy used. And I play more fusion than anything else at a moderate level.

    Do you see many used JV95s?
    Guitar Center has them for $699..

    AKJV95 Artcore Expressionist Vintage Series Electric Guitar: Ibanez AKJV95 Artcore Expressionist Vintage Series Electric Guitar Dark Amber Low Gloss | Guitar Center


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  43. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gitfiddler
    Would an ES165 be considered an ES175 clone? If so, its as close to the 'real thing' as one can get.
    For most of my life I have played 175’s from the 50’s and 60’s. They are terrific guitars with a unique sound and are the perfect instrument for the working musician. Having said that, I bought a 165 a few years ago and It was also a really good guitar. Mine had the built in Humbucker and it sounded very much like my vintage 175’s. I think a 165 is a real bargain in today’s market.
    Keith

  44. #43
    I saw that one and am keeping it mind. Would prefer a maple blond but maybe can find later. I put my Collings D2H
    up for sale.