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  1. #1

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    I had previously posted concerning Ebay fees and the cost if you use the "Reserve" option.

    Now on to Reverb.
    I sold my 1965 Fender Deluxe nonreverb amp recently. The buyer did not want the early 1966 Utah speaker that was in it. So I pulled it. Among other places, I put it on Reverb. The speaker had been reconed and tested. Good to go. My intital asking price was $199. But I ran a 15% discount promotion. The price became $169.15.
    The speaker sold. The Reverb fees are based on the orginal selling price, not the sale price.
    1. Processing fee $5.23 (2.6%)
    2. Selling fee $6.97 (3.5%)
    3. Bump Advertisement fee $9.96
    (5%)
    The processing and selling fees are mandatory. The Bump fee is a percentage sliding scale. The seller decides what percentage is used in the sale. The higher the percentage, the greater the expose your item gets.
    Last edited by Wildcat; 11-26-2019 at 03:52 PM.

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  3. #2

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    Damn - That's 13%! A consignment will get you the exposure for not much more money and significantly less headache. I'm considering moving all my listings to consignment. I live close enough to Gryphon that I might just drop everything there. People in Palo Alto love paying premiums.

  4. #3

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    I find it interesting that the fees were based on the original price rather than the actual sale price.

    Quote Originally Posted by omphalopsychos View Post
    Damn - That's 13%! A consignment will get you the exposure for not much more money and significantly less headache. I'm considering moving all my listings to consignment. I live close enough to Gryphon that I might just drop everything there. People in Palo Alto love paying premiums.

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildcat View Post
    I find it interesting that the fees were based on the original price rather than the actual sale price.
    Yes, that's not right imo.
    If it's 13% isn't that more than ebay + PayPal?

  6. #5

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    I think their strategy has modified now that they have reached massive scale. I haven't looked at their financials but I would bet you they took on massive losses to acquire customers and now they're trying to increase margins to make the unit economics work. Who knows what other directions they might take since their recent acquisition by Etsy.

  7. #6

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    You know, another thought I've considered is Retrofret. They tend to price at the top of the market, but their gear always seems to move. Even with consignment fees and cost of shipping to NY, it might not be much worse than Reverb is today.

  8. #7

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    I am starting to feel that EBay/Reverb fees plus paypal fees can result in a lower net to a seller than paying a 20 percent consignment fee with an established dealer. The dealer will get (in most cases) a higher price (there is usually a "private party" discount expected by most buyers).

    A free Craigslist ad with a face to face cash deal is best, but not always possible. When selling online, there is risk (shipping damage and fraud ) to consider. I have read horror stories on this forum.

    I have had auctions not bring what I had hoped for, shipping cost more than I assumed and had a few items show up with undisclosed defects with online sales and purchases.

    With local stuff, I have had flaky buyers and sellers both waste my time.

    If you consign to a store and it does not sell for a price you can live with, you may get it back with play wear (dings and scratches that were not there when you consigned it).

    Probably the best move for most of us is to quit while we are ahead and be happy with what we have. But we are guitar players. We want more. At least one more.
    _____________________________________________
    "When the chord changes, you should change" Joe Pass

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by omphalopsychos View Post
    Damn - That's 13%! A consignment will get you the exposure for not much more money and significantly less headache. I'm considering moving all my listings to consignment. I live close enough to Gryphon that I might just drop everything there. People in Palo Alto love paying premiums.
    Hi omphalopsychos, I think we are neighbors. I live about 5 miles from Gryphon and have thought about using them if/when I need to sell my stuff. Cheers.
    "Your biggest discoveries come by playing" - Robert Conti

  10. #9

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    I'm not seeing any indication of these rates. The site still claims 3.5% selling fee, and then a payment processing fee of 2.7 or 2.9.
    What am I missing?

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by wengr View Post
    I'm not seeing any indication of these rates. The site still claims 3.5% selling fee, and then a payment processing fee of 2.7 or 2.9.
    What am I missing?
    Bump fee

  12. #11

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    Okay.
    Processing fee 2.6%
    Selling fee 3.5 %
    Total 6.1%

    The Bump fee is voluntary at a sliding scale of 0% to 5%.

    So 6.1% to 11.1%

    However, as a seller if you have an item that is not a common item, ie., 1966 Vintage Fender speaker, or wanted to sell in a timely manner, I felt a need to Bump it to get the visibility needed to sell it.

    Quote Originally Posted by wengr View Post
    I'm not seeing any indication of these rates. The site still claims 3.5% selling fee, and then a payment processing fee of 2.7 or 2.9.
    What am I missing?

  13. #12

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    This is a "snapshot" of an item that you all can relate to. The purpose if your contemplating selling an item to explore your options at this time.

    The big take away is that the percentages for fees was based not on the actual sale price, (discounted), but the original listed price.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildcat View Post
    This is a "snapshot" of an item that you all can relate to. The purpose if your contemplating selling an item to explore your options at this time.

    The big take away is that the percentages for fees was based not on the actual sale price, (discounted), but the original listed price.
    That seems unfair. If you agree to do one of their 15% sales, they should discount the fees by 15%. I would call them and complain if I were you. I'll bet that they do an adjustment/refund.
    _____________________________________________
    "When the chord changes, you should change" Joe Pass

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by omphalopsychos View Post
    Damn - That's 13%! A consignment will get you the exposure for not much more money and significantly less headache. I'm considering moving all my listings to consignment. I live close enough to Gryphon that I might just drop everything there. People in Palo Alto love paying premiums.
    Doesn't Gryphon charge 20%-30% for consignments?

  16. #15

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    FWIW, I just "chatted" with someone from Reverb -- she said the selling fee is based on the "sold" price (with shipping, etc.), and not the "listed" price (if these are different).

  17. #16

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    The selling fee is a standard 3.5%.
    The math on this says.
    $199.00 (orginal price) x 3.5 = $6.97
    $169.15 (sale price) x 3.5 = $5.92
    They charged me $6.97.

    The processing fee is the one I had no idea about. I was like doesn't the selling fee include this?

    Quote Originally Posted by marcwhy View Post
    FWIW, I just "chatted" with someone from Reverb -- she said the selling fee is based on the "sold" price (with shipping, etc.), and not the "listed" price (if these are different).

  18. #17

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    So I got it figured out.
    1. Orginal price $199 + shipping estimate listed $30 =$229
    2. Sale price $169.15 + shipping $30 = 199.15
    3. All fees are based on the combined sale price and shipping fees.
    Call me stupid but I had no idea they charged a processing fee and the fees are based on the combined sale price and shipping costs in your sale.


    FYI Reverb Selling Fees (General Information)-20191127_093159-jpg

    FYI Reverb Selling Fees (General Information)-20191127_094113-jpg

  19. #18

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    They were bought out by Etsy a while ago -- does anyone know if these rates/policies have changed since then??



    [update: I originally thought "pinterest," but someone clarified it was "Etsy" -- thanks!]
    Last edited by marcwhy; 11-28-2019 at 03:21 PM. Reason: update

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildcat View Post
    So I got it figured out.
    1. Orginal price $199 + shipping estimate listed $30 =$229
    2. Sale price $169.15 + shipping $30 = 199.15
    3. All fees are based on the combined sale price and shipping fees.

    Call me stupid but I had no idea they charged a processing fee and the fees are based on the combined sale price and shipping costs in your sale.
    Am I right - - -they're charging a fee on shipping because it's part of the money they are also collecting ?

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis D View Post
    Am I right - - -they're charging a fee on shipping because it's part of the money they are also collecting ?
    That is because a long time ago someone gamed ebay by selling the product for $1 and tacking on a shipping fee which was the actual selling price of the item. ebay levied a fee based on the selling price and not the shipping fee back then. As an example, a $1 Hasselblad Carl Zeiss lens and $999 shipping fee. You can't run a company collecting a 10 cents fee.

    ebay soon caught on and revised its fee to include the shipping charge. Reverb is just following suit and a good thing, too.

  22. #21

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    I am still trying to wrap my head around the following,
    1. They have a fee for "charge processing ".
    2. The final total inwhich the fees apply includes the shipping cost that you show on your sale.
    3. From the buyers side they are adding state sale taxes on a weekly basis. Pennsylvania my state is included now.


    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger View Post
    That seems unfair. If you agree to do one of their 15% sales, they should discount the fees by 15%. I would call them and complain if I were you. I'll bet that they do an adjustment/refund.

  23. #22

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    Interesting. Makes sense.
    But the question is how long did it take them to catch on to what you were doing Jabs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky View Post
    That is because a long time ago someone gamed ebay by selling the product for $1 and tacking on a shipping fee which was the actual selling price of the item. ebay levied a fee based on the selling price and not the shipping fee back then. As an example, a $1 Hasselblad Carl Zeiss lens and $999 shipping fee. You can't run a company collecting a 10 cents fee.

    ebay soon caught on and revised its fee to include the shipping charge. Reverb is just following suit and a good thing, too.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by omphalopsychos View Post
    Damn - That's 13%! A consignment will get you the exposure for not much more money and significantly less headache. I'm considering moving all my listings to consignment. I live close enough to Gryphon that I might just drop everything there. People in Palo Alto love paying premiums.
    At the one store I looked into for consigning something they asked for 20%. Seemed like a lot to me at the time, but with this info maybe not an unreasonable premium for their legwork and display space.

    John

  25. #24

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    Consignment fees:
    -15% was the old normal.
    -20% is the new normal.
    -Some retailers are now pushing it to 25%.
    "Somebody get me out of this chair." - BOB WILLS
    Hammertone is a registered Hofnerologist.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildcat View Post
    ...From the buyers side they are adding state sale taxes on a weekly basis. Pennsylvania my state is included now.
    IMO, one significant reason for the success of various online retail enterprises has been the ability for consumers to avoid paying sales taxes on items purchased out of state. The feds/state officials have finally, mostly, closed this loophole (and that is exactly what it was) by leaning on Paypal/Reverb/ebay etceteras. I believe this will put a noticeable dent in transaction revenue for many online sellers as consumers adjust their spending accordingly.
    Last edited by Hammertone; 11-28-2019 at 02:18 PM.
    "Somebody get me out of this chair." - BOB WILLS
    Hammertone is a registered Hofnerologist.

  27. #26

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    Mandolin Brothers and Gruhn were charging 25% back in the day.

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammertone View Post
    IMO, one significant reason for the success of various online retail enterprises has been the ability for consumers to avoid paying sales taxes on items purchased out of state. The feds/state officials have finally, mostly closed this loophole (and that is eactly what it was) by leaning on Paypal/Reverb/ebay etceteras. I believe this will put a noticeable dent in transaction revenue for many online sellers as consumers adjust their spending accordingly.
    It's probably too late for many retail sectors (e.g., books)

    John

  29. #28

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    The MAN is bring me down!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammertone View Post
    IMO, one significant reason for the success of various online retail enterprises has been the ability for consumers to avoid paying sales taxes on items purchased out of state. The feds/state officials have finally, mostly closed this loophole (and that is eactly what it was) by leaning on Paypal/Reverb/ebay etceteras. I believe this will put a noticeable dent in transaction revenue for many online sellers as consumers adjust their spending accordingly.

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildcat View Post
    I find it interesting that the fees were based on the original price rather than the actual sale price.
    I wonder if you can pull an ad and then relist it at a lower price without having to do all the work again.

  31. #30

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    I buy and sell on Reverb quite a bit. I've never used the Bump feature, though. The fees seem reasonable compared to the 20% local shops charge for consignment, and I don't risk the wear and tear (or breakage) from everyone that wants to try it out in that store. The upside of the shop is that you don't have to deal with shipping.

  32. #31

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    I mean you could build your own website, and then pay for ads to promote it, pay for someone to host it, rent server space, sign up with a cc gateway and pay their fees, and then you could sell your stuff and not pay reverb or eBay any fees

  33. #32

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    This is what I hope would happen. To spark innovation.

    Quote Originally Posted by customxke View Post
    I mean you could build your own website, and then pay for ads to promote it, pay for someone to host it, rent server space, sign up with a cc gateway and pay their fees, and then you could sell your stuff and not pay reverb or eBay any fees

  34. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildcat View Post
    Interesting. Makes sense.
    But the question is how long did it take them to catch on to what you were doing Jabs?
    I ain't telling...

  35. #34

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    As usual stringswinger brings a most insightful look at the options :-)

    Regarding Reverb I may add that in order to not get caught up in the "original" asking price vs. selling price that the seller just list it at their bottom dollar. Failing that if it's not against Reverb listing policy unlist the item, and relist it at a lower price. Since there is no listing fee like Ebay has, this may be a work around.

    I'm of a mind to not sell anything anymore as buyers have become rude, and unreasonable. Many want as NEW condition stuff and expect prices I'd only give to a blood relative.

    I'll let my son deal with it all after I'm gone. He can bring it all to Sam Ash, or other LGS and take what he can get... it will be all gravy :-)
    Regards,

    Gary

  36. #35

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    I start at higher price knowing that I will discount it in the future. In marketing items it's all about "pushing buttons". (Hammertone mentioned this to me recently.) Vendors do this all the time on a daily basis. I consider myself a straitshooter. However I apply the the sale logic to aid in a sale. Part of this logic is driven by the fees involved in a transaction.

    Of course when it comes to this forum my price is at what I paid or lower out of respect for the individuals who frequent this site.

    Quote Originally Posted by GNAPPI View Post
    As usual stringswinger brings a most insightful look at the options :-)

    Regarding Reverb I may add that in order to not get caught up in the "original" asking price vs. selling price that the seller just list it at their bottom dollar. Failing that if it's not against Reverb listing policy unlist the item, and relist it at a lower price. Since there is no listing fee like Ebay has, this may be a work around.

    I'm of a mind to not sell anything anymore as buyers have become rude, and unreasonable. Many want as NEW condition stuff and expect prices I'd only give to a blood relative.

    I'll let my son deal with it all after I'm gone. He can bring it all to Sam Ash, or other LGS and take what he can get... it will be all gravy :-)

  37. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by losaltosjoe View Post
    Hi omphalopsychos, I think we are neighbors. I live about 5 miles from Gryphon and have thought about using them if/when I need to sell my stuff. Cheers.
    Me too. 10 minutes away. Archtops sell fast at Gryphon and are well guarded. Only problem with Gryphon is if not bought from them originally their consignment fee is 25%. 20% if bought from them.

  38. #37

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    I heard that CME owned Reverb and recently sold it ???

  39. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k View Post
    I heard that CME owned Reverb and recently sold it ???
    Not quite. The Chairman of CME was also the Chairman of Reverb. Reverb was sold to Etsy. I don’t think the deal is complete, but Etsy does plan to allow Reverb to operate independently and self-govern. If was more of a market share, diversification, and customer acquisition strategy than anything. I couldn’t imagine them trying to combine the two marketplaces.

    BTW there was a lot in the press about it. Etsy isn’t doing so hot lately. Their last earnings was a miss.

    Etsy Shares Post Steepest Drop in Four Years - WSJ

  40. #39

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    I read that Etsy bought the Reverb marketplace for $275m ?

  41. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k View Post
    Me too. 10 minutes away. Archtops sell fast at Gryphon and are well guarded. Only problem with Gryphon is if not bought from them originally their consignment fee is 25%. 20% if bought from them.
    Does Gryphon's consignment program have a ' set up / repaired to our standards ' requirement ? Meaning ' the repairs we feel are needed for us to sell it will be done by us and paid for by the consignee prior to us offering it for sale' .

    And FYI, I also had a local dealer sell an amp for me at the agreed price but then tell me the proceeds had to be in trade and not cash due to a local city ordinance / accounting law which he of course couldn't cite. Of course I haven't been back there since.

    Consignments are a whole 'nuther ballgame, some ok some not so ok. And if you have to ask a 'dumb' question like: " What exactly is your consignment program ? ", and the response includes not being able to get anything in writing, maybe you've got the wrong store.

    MHO, of course, and good luck.

  42. #41

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    I wonder to what degree the recent sales tax changes contributed to the decision to sell reverb?
    Pretty considerable I would guess.

  43. #42

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    They hit the seller with multiple fees. And now the buyers are hit with their home state sales tax.

    FYI Reverb Selling Fees (General Information)-20191202_103534-jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by wengr View Post
    I wonder to what degree the recent sales tax changes contributed to the decision to sell reverb?
    Pretty considerable I would guess.

  44. #43

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    Re: State Sales tax

    If an individual sells an item on Reverb, is he liable for collecting the State tax and paying it to the appropriate state? Or does the Reverb system automatically generate the amount ( ' do the math' ) and then pay the tax collected directly to the individual state?

  45. #44

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    Reverb automatically deducts the tax from the sale and forwards to the state you are from.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis D View Post
    Re: State Sales tax If an individual sells an item on Reverb, is he liable for collecting the State tax and paying it to the appropriate state? Or does the Reverb system automatically generate the amount ( ' do the math' ) and then pay the tax collected directly to the individual state?

  46. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildcat View Post
    Reverb automatically deducts the tax from the sale and forwards to the state you are from.
    Thx.

  47. #46

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    "And now the buyers are hit with their home state sales tax."

    "Reverb automatically deducts the tax from the sale and forwards to the state you are from."

    If the buyer is paying the sales tax, shouldn't the tax be added to the purchase cost rather than deducted from the sales proceeds to the seller?

  48. #47

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    Bear in mind that the market penetration strategy of the Internet has always been to operate at a loss until a large user base has been established and then raise prices to reach profitability.

    Perhaps, as consumers, instead of griping about paying what the services/products are worth, we should be grateful for the bargains we get in the early days of an Internet marketing plan.
    _____________________________________________
    "When the chord changes, you should change" Joe Pass

  49. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil59 View Post
    "And now the buyers are hit with their home state sales tax."

    "Reverb automatically deducts the tax from the sale and forwards to the state you are from."

    If the buyer is paying the sales tax, shouldn't the tax be added to the purchase cost rather than deducted from the sales proceeds to the seller?

    The sales tax is added to the total sales price. The buyer has to pay the sales tax on top. It IS NOT deducted from the sellers proceeds. Reverb calculates and charges based on the buyer’s location.

    Also, just for clarification, Reverb’s seller fees are subtracted as a percentage of the final sales price, not the original listing price.

    I have no stock in the company, but have sold hundreds of thousands of dollars in merchandise via Reverb, so I’m pretty familiar with how their system works. The whole process is much smoother than eBay. I hope Etsy just leaves them alone and they can maintain the level of service I’ve experienced so far.

  50. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildcat View Post
    Reverb automatically deducts the tax from the sale and forwards to the state you are from.
    On my last reverb sale, a guitar that sold for $1100, reverb collected the sales tax from the buyer on top of the purchase price, and then submitted to me the entire sales tax along with the sales proceeds via paypal.
    They then charged back the sales tax amount at the end of the billing cycle when they billed for their selling fees.

    I find this problematic for various reasons:
    What about those who close accounts and disappear before the end of cycle.
    Also, I prefer to pay reverb fees via credit card. However for those who carry a balance they may not care to have someone elses sales tax charged to their card.

  51. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by wengr View Post
    On my last reverb sale, a guitar that sold for $1100, reverb collected the sales tax from the buyer on top of the purchase price, and then submitted to me the entire sales tax along with the sales proceeds via paypal.
    They then charged back the sales tax amount at the end of the billing cycle when they billed for their selling fees.

    I find this problematic for various reasons:
    What about those who close accounts and disappear before the end of cycle.
    Also, I prefer to pay reverb fees via credit card. However for those who carry a balance they may not care to have someone elses sales tax charged to their card.

    I’ve never heard of such a thing. Reverb’s standard policy is to subtract all fees and sales tax before paying out to the seller.

    Here is an example from a recent sale: