Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Posts 1 to 50 of 65
  1. #1

    User Info Menu

    I’m curious what people think something like this would do do the value of an otherwise perfect late fifties Gibson. Do you see the letters (you can make out “Y” upside down but there are a couple more by the switch)? Unimportant? Critical? The seller hasn’t mentioned this in the listing but I spotted it in the photos. I think someone put a couple of decals on this at one point and left them on too long, permanently marring the nitro.

    Attachment 66703
    Attached Images Attached Images Nitro blemish on a vintage Gibson - value?-ef4ba010-1b19-4b11-ac02-77ecccaa512b-jpg 
    Last edited by omphalopsychos; 11-26-2019 at 12:35 PM.

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

    User Info Menu

    I see at least 3, definitely reduces the value a bit.

  4. #3

    User Info Menu

    It is just like any usual wear and tear and what you can live with. Value is always thought of from the standpoint to mint original and sometimes I think that works against everyone. Sure it would better not to be there but has no negative structural issue, might be able to buff it out or clean up easily. The guitar is over 60 years old and does it play well and sound good? If so then frankly just buy it for what it is worth to you guitars are horrible investments really.
    specializing in repair and setup, does your guitar play like it should?

  5. #4
    Mark, I get you. In fact, I prefer a player over a collectible piece for sure. I can live with the imperfections because it makes it easier on the conscience to take the guitar out to rehearsals and gigs. I just don't want to pay collectible price for a player. I appreciate your perspective. Nonetheless, I think this is a bit off topic. My question was very specific.

  6. #5

    User Info Menu

    Maybe 10-15% discount from a VG value. What is the guitar and what is the ask$?

  7. #6
    1957 Gibson ES-175DN. $10k.

    My stomach churns as I read that aloud, lol.

  8. #7

    User Info Menu

    My 1,000,000 cents:

    If you had held it and said, "With this, I am Retired From Buying* " then the barely visible "Johnny Nerd" decal residue wouldn't matter.

    If you're buying online, there will be pictures of other $10,000 ES-175s.

    Good luck and give thanks for the InterWebz!
    "Don't worry about that. Everybody talks about finding your voice. Do your homework and your voice will find you." - Branford Marsalis

  9. #8
    I've held it. Hence the dilemma!

  10. #9

    User Info Menu

    Price reduction - perhaps $2.50 per letter.

    In my world, there's no 60-year-old plywood guitar that's worth $10,000.
    Maybe if the Pope owned it and Jim Hall and Joe Pass played it simultaneously.

  11. #10

    User Info Menu

    I wonder if that can just be sanded out and buffed.

  12. #11

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175 View Post
    I wonder if that can just be sanded out and buffed.
    If the finish is original over the entirety of the instrument, sanding and buffing will reduce the value more than leaving the shadows of the letters present.

  13. #12

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by D'Aquisto Fan View Post
    If the finish is original over the entirety of the instrument, sanding and buffing will reduce the value more than leaving the shadows of the letters present.
    I would personally find a vintage guitar with random letter shaped marks on it less desirable than one with minor local cosmetic finish repair. But then the vintage market is weird, clearly there are some out there who'd rather have those letter marks on their guitar than to know that the guitar had a local cosmetic finish repair.

  14. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175 View Post
    I would personally find a vintage guitar with random letter shaped marks on it less desirable than one with minor local cosmetic finish repair. But then the vintage market is weird, clearly there are some out there who'd rather have those letter marks on their guitar than to know that the guitar had a local cosmetic finish repair.
    I *personally* would, too. However it's the position of the majority (or at least the influential minority) that sets prices. Disagreeing with prices can work in your favor. The problem is, arbitrage strategies carry higher risk.


    Anyway. Spoke to the seller and they were reasonable. Deal made. NGD.

  15. #14

    User Info Menu

    Strange thing is, a typical several million dollars worth "original" Stradivari violin would have gone through more intrusive repairs many times during it's life time.

  16. #15

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by omphalopsychos View Post
    I *personally* would, too. However it's the position of the majority (or at least the influential minority) that sets prices. Disagreeing with prices can work in your favor. The problem is, arbitrage strategies carry higher risk.


    Anyway. Spoke to the seller and they were reasonable. Deal made. NGD.
    Yes, I was referring to the collector crowd.

    Congratulations, enjoy it.

  17. #16

    User Info Menu

    $10,000? That is a lot of money!
    Testing a Gibson ES335 vs Harley Benton HB 35 (very inexpensive semi hollow body guitar)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fGMIs1wNEA&t=185s

    Jamming the Jazz standard All the things you are
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUzDEct613g&t=3s

    Playing a solo over my friends tune Cookies and Cream
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJHqt_lpyKM

  18. #17

    User Info Menu

    Congratulations. Looking forward to the pics...Nitro blemish on a vintage Gibson - value?
    Jared

  19. #18

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175 View Post
    Yes, I was referring to the collector crowd.

    Congratulations, enjoy it.
    FYI, it's not just the collector crowd. Finish abnormalities reduce the price. Original finish is desirable. Touch-ups. Overspray, etc. diminish the price whether you're a collector or a player or a combination of both.

    Oh, and congratulations to Omphalopsychos!

  20. #19

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by D'Aquisto Fan View Post
    FYI, it's not just the collector crowd. Finish abnormalities reduce the price. Original finish is desirable. Touch-ups. Overspray, etc. diminish the price whether you're a collector or a player or a combination of both.
    Of course it does. Why wouldn't it. I guess you missed the context of that response.
    The context was my statement:
    "I would personally find a vintage guitar with random letter shaped marks on it less desirable than one with minor local cosmetic finish repair."

  21. #20

    User Info Menu

    really depends on your negotiating skills...if you want to turn it into a big deal..then certainly you could get a price reduction for a "marred" guitar...seller obviously knows its there, and doesn't mention it..so that shows he's sensitive to it

    good chance that some naptha on cloth would wipe it away without affecting nitro..but don't tell seller!! haha

    haggle on

    of course it could also turn out from the letters, that the guitar belonged to a famous player, and jack the price up!!! haha

    cheers

  22. #21

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by neatomic View Post
    really depends on your negotiating skills...if you want to turn it into a big deal..then certainly you could get a price reduction for a "marred" guitar...seller obviously knows its there, and doesn't mention it..so that shows he's sensitive to it

    good chance that some naptha on cloth would wipe it away without affecting nitro..but don't tell seller!! haha

    haggle on

    of course it could also turn out from the letters, that the guitar belonged to a famous player, and jack the price up!!! haha

    cheers
    Doubt naptha's taking them off, that's not surface adhesive, it reacted w the nitro, seen it many times. I'd certainly try it though!

  23. #22

    User Info Menu

    If I had to bet (and I don't), that finish could be wet sanded, resprayed with a touch of antique natural tint if needed, and resprayed with clear. In 5-10 years of sun exposure you may not even see any difference where the touch up was. I have personal experience with this!

    The other goofball who put a sticker on his guitar is this guy. Sheesh.


    Nitro blemish on a vintage Gibson - value?-wes-montgomery-david-redfern-e1551889226651-jpg
    MG

  24. #23

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Grass View Post
    If I had to bet (and I don't), that finish could be wet sanded, resprayed with a touch of antique natural tint if needed, and resprayed with clear. In 5-10 years of sun exposure you may not even see any difference where the touch up was. I have personal experience with this!

    The other goofball who put a sticker on his guitar is this guy. Sheesh.


    Nitro blemish on a vintage Gibson - value?-wes-montgomery-david-redfern-e1551889226651-jpg
    Sticker, really? News to me,
    I know Gibson made him a couple L-5s w/pearl inlaid in that spot as his old Alnico model had wear from his finger there.

  25. #24

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Grass View Post
    If I had to bet (and I don't), that finish could be wet sanded, resprayed with a touch of antique natural tint if needed, and resprayed with clear. In 5-10 years of sun exposure you may not even see any difference where the touch up was. I have personal experience with this!

    The other goofball who put a sticker on his guitar is this guy. Sheesh.


    Nitro blemish on a vintage Gibson - value?-wes-montgomery-david-redfern-e1551889226651-jpg
    I wonder how much discount one would be able to get due to the damage to the finish of that guitar.

  26. #25

    User Info Menu

    yes, that was there to circumvent wes wearing a hole thru the archtop...no vanity involved!!! haha

    till later-



    cheers

  27. #26

    User Info Menu

    there are solvents that will soften nitro...naptha is the most harmless...tho with heat..either by vigorous rubbing or with a heat gun/blowdryer can be effective...the idea is to smoothe rather than remove!! hah

    cheers

  28. #27

    User Info Menu

    Nitro blemish on a vintage Gibson - value?-wes-montgomery-early-1960s-everett-jpg
    MG

  29. #28

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Grass View Post
    Nitro blemish on a vintage Gibson - value?-wes-montgomery-early-1960s-everett-jpg
    Yup MG, that's his other pearl inlaid L5

  30. #29
    So what I’m hearing is I should find some more alphabet decals and fill in the markings so that it reads “JIMMY RANEY”.

  31. #30

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by omphalopsychos View Post
    So what I’m hearing is I should find some more alphabet decals and fill in the markings so that it reads “JIMMY RANEY”.
    haha.that"s it..tho i'd settle for billy bean or teddy bunn!!

    cheers

  32. #31

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by omphalopsychos View Post
    I *personally* would, too. However it's the position of the majority (or at least the influential minority) that sets prices. Disagreeing with prices can work in your favor. The problem is, arbitrage strategies carry higher risk.


    Anyway. Spoke to the seller and they were reasonable. Deal made. NGD.
    I can’t wait for this..
    Congratulations Omph.

  33. #32

    User Info Menu

    In the context of price negotiation I do understand why are letter marks a topic. Otherwise I really don’t. Although I really can not afford such instruments, I think there are way more important differences between identical models even from close years, play wise, tone wise, and is general mojo wise.

    It is the part of the instrument, accept it, and respect its history. Otherwise the thoughts about the intrusive repairs on many Stradivarius is a good one...

  34. #33

    User Info Menu

    It was at the very height of the I HEART NY movement. It is the secret rune engraved on every magic instrument.

    Not objectionable to me.

  35. #34

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by neatomic View Post
    haha.that"s it..tho i'd settle for billy bean or teddy bunn!!

    cheers
    Can't be Biily's. I am blessed to have his '64 ES-175 SP!
    Nitro blemish on a vintage Gibson - value?-50967980_10215024173530734_5618944652083200000_n-jpg
    Guitar Addicts Anonymous
    A 12 fret program

  36. #35

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Easy2grasp View Post
    Can't be Biily's. I am blessed to have his '64 ES-175 SP!
    Nitro blemish on a vintage Gibson - value?-50967980_10215024173530734_5618944652083200000_n-jpg
    Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat! You moved the neck pickup???

    I love it.

  37. #36

    User Info Menu

    I like it when people mod their guitars to their personal preferences, rather then feel like they have to live with one size fits all factory specs.

  38. #37

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175 View Post
    Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat! You moved the neck pickup???

    I love it.
    Wow, perfect. Made the guitar actually work for you. The perfect 175.

    And an axe next to it with big ugly tape over the f-hole. Guitars ready to make actual music noises!

    And to the OP:

    Definitely do not follow the enthusiastic, but ultimately “amateur-night” comments here about solvents and the finish on the guitar in question. Yes, it can be fixed if it is important to you, but get someone who has messed with old and new lacquer. Do not start wiping and hoping to “heat” the problem away.

    Ah the interweb...

  39. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Bezoeker View Post
    Definitely do not follow the enthusiastic, but ultimately “amateur-night” comments here about solvents and the finish on the guitar in question. Yes, it can be fixed if it is important to you, but get someone who has messed with old and new lacquer. Do not start wiping and hoping to “heat” the problem away.

    Ah the interweb...
    Too late although I did come up with a better solution. I didn't have naphtha so I just rubbed acetone over the letters and replaced them with "JIMMY PAGE" using a safety pin. I accidentally got some blood in there but it looks authentic. I also went ahead and moved the neck pickup and added a strat middle pickup to make it work better for me.

  40. #39

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by omphalopsychos View Post
    Too late although I did come up with a better solution. I didn't have naphtha so I just rubbed acetone over the letters and replaced them with "JIMMY PAGE" using a safety pin. I accidentally got some blood in there but it looks authentic. I also went ahead and moved the neck pickup and added a strat middle pickup to make it work better for me.
    Naptha, Acetone, the same thing really... I read that on a web forum, so it must be accurate.

    What blood type? I mean some blood types are more “musical” than others.

  41. #40
    I take it back. The correct name to etch in this guitar would be Izzy Stradlin.

    Nitro blemish on a vintage Gibson - value?-izzy-jpg

  42. #41

    User Info Menu

    been workin on guitars since the 70's bud....and come from long line of carpenters...naptha has been used for decades cleaning nitro

    and there are solvents that will melt nitro, and why i didn't mention using them!

    so take your "amateur night" comments to the expensive luthier of your choice and pay big $$$ to have him use naptha on it!!

    cheers

    ps- its a 1950's guitar with nitro on it..not some prehistoric artifact..its been spit on, bled on, sweated on, spilled beer on, smoked on and god knows what else...silicon polished most likely too

  43. #42

    User Info Menu

    I think most people understand how to benefit from discussions on an internet forum. Some degree of common sense and discretion is required.

    If you read a comment about applying naphtha on lacquer to fix a blemish, and just run and get naphtha and do it, the blemishes on your guitar are probably the least of your problems.

    Suggestions on internet forums are very valuable resource but they are a starting point of further research for reasonable people. I learned great many things on forums. The ideas stated above can be good. Just needs further research.

    Also let's not forget that for all you know those who tell you to ignore the ideas and discredit them as internet noise are potentially equally unreliable interweb speculations as the original ideas until further research.

  44. #43

    User Info Menu

    was never instructing ompha to do anything...other than to use it as a haggling point...just merely stating there are workarounds to a finish problem!!...i assume we are all grown ups who can decide what we can and cannot do on our own!

    cheers

  45. #44

    User Info Menu

    Likewise Neatomic, professional woodworking since I'm a youngin and my folks before me, plus guitars for a very long time.
    But hey, folks posting in a forum can't possibly know what they're talking about. Long live amateur night interwebz posters!
    Carry on....

  46. #45
    I’ll let y’all get back to bickering in a sec but I hope you’ll tolerate a short tangent.

    Nitro blemish on a vintage Gibson - value?-b1504234-27f0-4301-a5d9-4b1ef0d05d4f-jpg

    For the record I think neatomic is a pretty sane person with good judgment. But also I’m not gonna touch the finish.

  47. #46

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by omphalopsychos View Post

    For the record I think neatomic is a pretty sane person with good judgment.
    now i'm worried!!! haha...still like the couch..

    congrats on the guitar! hope you haggled well

    cheers

  48. #47

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Grass View Post
    Nitro blemish on a vintage Gibson - value?-wes-montgomery-early-1960s-everett-jpg
    MG, that is a GREAT picture of one classy man.
    JD

  49. #48

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by omphalopsychos View Post
    I’ll let y’all get back to bickering in a sec but I hope you’ll tolerate a short tangent.

    Nitro blemish on a vintage Gibson - value?-b1504234-27f0-4301-a5d9-4b1ef0d05d4f-jpg

    For the record I think neatomic is a pretty sane person with good judgment. But also I’m not gonna touch the finish.
    Now THAT is a beauty.
    It brings to mind..
    When I was young, dumb and full of.. well ok..
    I grew up on a 53, in 1971. I always thought the newer “ Humbucker” pickups were going to stop the “hum” you got when you turned up the amp too loud. Then I amassed enough paper route money and bought an imitation Ibanez Les Paul with those “Hum-buckers”on it and viola, no hum! Needless to say, I thought the “hum” was actually the feedback. But I lusted after a later model 175 like yours ever since I can remember.
    Enjoy that beautiful guitar Omph, and make it tell you all of its great stories.
    Joe D

  50. #49

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by omphalopsychos View Post
    I’ll let y’all get back to bickering in a sec but I hope you’ll tolerate a short tangent.

    Nitro blemish on a vintage Gibson - value?-b1504234-27f0-4301-a5d9-4b1ef0d05d4f-jpg

    For the record I think neatomic is a pretty sane person with good judgment. But also I’m not gonna touch the finish.

    Doesn’t need to be touched. Beautiful.
    Congratulations again.
    Jared

  51. #50

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Dedalus View Post
    Doesn’t need to be touched. Beautiful.
    Congratulations again.
    I agree with leaving good enough alone. I started out not knowing the difference and having a high tolerance for wear and imperfections. It's only in the last 12-15 years I was conditioned to care. Looking back, this was largely due to the influence of the famous Patrick (RIP), who was a 3rd degree black belt perfectionist when it came to guitars. I not only noticed more flaws, but they bothered me. I wish I could say I'm cured, but I'm not. I'm only in semi-remission I fear. As proof I've been primarily playing an older archtop riddled with checking. The more I play, the less I see the checking.

    I'm certainly not a luthier, but I've seen some of the best in action. And I do have naptha and can use it. DO NOT confuse this with acetone.

    Pete Moreno does some very good finish work. He has gallon bottles of original Gibson finish that he got when Gibson left town. He can blend finishes as well as I've ever seen for matching existing Gibson and Heritage finishes. But he's been at it for well over 50 years. I have two guitars with him now to touch up. When those are done I have one more to sweat a couple of dings out. Then I believe I might be done. Pete is just about 80, so I don't know how much longer he'll be working full time.

    Aaron Cowles (RIP) was also very talented but more direct. Several times I brought him work only for him to tell me that this is something I should be able to do myself. He'd tell me how and ask me to bring it back to him if I fail.

    So, yes I'm rambling. I'll summarize what my points are.

    1. Guitars are objects of beauty as well as instruments.
    2. When you are really playing one, it is only an instrument. Cosmetic flaws disappear.
    3. Don't be afraid to push your limits in doing your own repair and adjustment work, as long as you don't mind risking doing damage. You will screw up while learning, especially with a file.
    4. If it is above your skill level and must be done well, have the best guy you can find do it but insist on learning from him or her. Most luthiers are proud of their work and don't mind giving brief explanations.
    5. Working on a guitar is probably one of the best ways to bond with it. Don't start on valuable ones though.
    6. Most importantly, have fun.
    MG