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This is really a test. Anything related to the ES-175 gets a huge amount of views and responses. My question is probably the least relevant of them all - at least to jazz players. Maybe it's also the only aspect that hasn't been amply debated. On the cover of my "Real Jazz Book" there's a 175, with apparently no space between the bridge PU and the bridge. The 1959 VOS of mine has a gap of at least 3/8" between the bridge and the PU frame. Now I never use the bridge PU so it could be upside down all the same. I'm just curious about how much the PUs have been moving back and forth on the 175. We all know that the neck PU, for some reason, isn't where one would expect, and where Joe Pass wanted it.
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You mean this book? Looks like someone has simply pushed the bridge way too close to the pickup, the bridge is often moveable (though maybe not on more recent models? I don’t know much about those). If the guitar was just being used as a photo prop anything could happen, maybe the strings were at hardly any tension and the bridge got moved.
On my 175 the gap is about half an inch (mine has a moveable bridge so the position is largely dictated by correct intonation).
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With the pick up that close to the bridge it will have more of a trebble sound same goes for the neck pick up posistioning.
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The bridge in that photo is pretty close to where it should be, centered between the points of the f holes. That's the ideal position, but with different strings intonation can require some small movement. Of course some guitars are poorly designed, so the bridge has to be placed much closer to the neck (looking at the Byrdland in particular, but there are others). The 175, though, should have the bridge at the points.
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Yup, in about the right place also relative to the volume knobs. If you look at the cover photo closely, you will also notice that the bridge doesn't sit straight, but with the left side higher up. Funny, mine's also that "wrong" way and the intonation is fine (must check first thing in the morning, though.)
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you can't eyeball intonation!!! its a super precise measurement down to tiniest +/- cent percentage!!...even a slightly low cut nut slot or bridge slot can affect it!!!
i agree with gbop..that pic on real book cover is just a photo op ..nothing to base your own intonation on...(no way that guitar plays in tune)...that requires precise measurement and fine tuning...normally the low e side will require to be furthest away from nut..that's just physics!
theres is no easy way out in setting up a guitar...esp. from pics or prescribed measurements...they each have their own life...its a constant hands on learning experience...why there are established pro techs!
cheers
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The way the bridge sits depends on the way it's cut, whether intonated or not, and how much, and very much on the strings and action. Change string type and gauge, and you may need to tweak the intonation, and if you change the action very much the intonation will also change. Setting the intonation requires a strobe tuner, and it still won't be perfect if you're using a wooden saddle. Getting it perfect on all strings requires a tune-o-matic saddle. But a wooden saddle lets me get the intonation close enough for my ears. The saddle won't be directly at the points of the f holes, but that's a good place to start on most archtops. One has to start somewhere. Usually there will be at least faint marks on the top where the bridge has been before, and that's a good starting point. The guitar in the cover photo may or may not be intonated correctly, that's impossible to know from just a photo, but it is in the ballpark.
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Given that the bridge, f-holes and knobs appear to be in their right places, it still looks like the bridge PU on the photo is further back than normally. This was my original observation. Of course, a photo is of no use for intonation. But you never know these days: a vendor of premium home audio systems says people make buying decisions based on how the samples sound through an iPhone.
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I hesitate to make a judgement about the spacing between the pickup and the bridge based on that photo. Perspective can trick the eye, and the resolution is not really high. I agree that the pickup does look very close to the bridge, but I'm not sure of the actual distance. It's always possible that someone at the factory cut the pickup hole a little bit off, but it's also possible, IMO, that the photo makes it look that way even though it might not be. To the original question, AFAIK the pickup routes are all the same, or at least meant to be, but humans can make both small and big mistakes. Theoretically QC would reject tops with the pickup route too close to the bridge, but in practice lots of serious flaws make it through to the customers. So who knows?
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The bridge in the "Real" Jazz Book photo has been pushed up higher than normal. Take a "Real" good look at its relation to the f-hole points. Now, I am not saying that it's incorrectly intonated there, just that it's not the normal position.
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Mines pretty close. Maybe a cm. or less than half an inch.
Floating bridges... it’s easy to see how they get shoved up against the pickup during shipping etc.
The bridge pickup sounds mega.
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[QUOTE=TOMMO;988875]Just a quick google search - do all of these need an intonation setup?
/QUOTE]
they are all different!!! as are the saddles!!!..which is the most important part.. good intonation comes down to the smallest measurement..fractions!!!..can't be eyeballed!!...and can change just by taking guitar from car to stage lights!!!...as i always say..guitars are a constant work in progress..and everything matters
cheers
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Nut to 12 fret = X = 12 fret to bridge saddle.
Then you adjust for intonation.
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Here’s my 2016 Memphis. The bridge was pinned by Gibson. Intonation is perfect.
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