The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    I recall reading somewhere that some well known player, can't recall who, used very light strings, like .009 or .10 E string.

    Also that Mike Stern uses a .38 low E and a .11 high E. That's probably on a 25.5 scale guitar.

    I'd been having trouble playing my Comins GCS-1 because it felt too stiff (arthritis). I'd already gone down a gauge from the factory strings, but it was still too stiff.

    I raised the tailpiece, which may have helped a bit, but not enough.

    So, I got a set of Super Slinky .009, .012, .016 .024 .034 .042.

    The action became much softer, unsurprisingly.

    The .009 sounded okay if I turned the tone control all the way off, but not otherwise. With the tone control full up, it sounded fizzy or twangy - not good for my purpose. Also, it was a little too floppy.

    So, I put on a .010 and a 0.013 for the top two and left the others as they were. I considered trying a .017 for the G string, but I didn't bother.

    This completely changed the guitar. Fortunately, the intonation stayed accurate. I didn't have to adjust the neck. The guitar now feels much more playable and sounds just as good. If there's any disadvantage to having the .042 low E, I haven't noticed it yet, but I don't like a lot of low frequency energy in my sound.

    So, I was curious. Why doesn't anybody make a set that goes from 11 to 38 (like Stern uses) or 10 to 42 (like I've got)?

    Is there some disadvantage I haven't noticed? I can't recall ever meeting a jazz player who used really light low strings.

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  3. #2

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    There are makers that make 10-42 sets: Curt Magnan, Pyramids, American Strings, probably more if you search for them.

    As for disadvantages in general, I think it's just what you're used to. Thin strings may have a little less of that attack that a lot of jazz players like to hear and a little less of the fundamental vs overtones, and some may feel one is more ideal than the other for their preferred setup. but really, good sounds have been made on anything, and if you like the sound and it keeps you playing, it's good imho.

    Abercrombie, late era Jim Hall, Steve Khan, all play(ed) lighter gauges. Sound good to me.

  4. #3

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    I believe Jody Fisher uses 9's on his Klein, and he sounds pretty good!

    See how "tension" plays into your selections: Stringjoy Tension Calculator.

  5. #4

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    I use light strings and tune down. John Stowell also does both.

  6. #5

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    I use a 10-46 roundwound set on my D'Angelico semi and my strat, 12-52 flats on my archtop. When I first got the semi, I found the 46 on the neck pickup boomy, but lowering the bass side of the pickup addressed that. It's not boomy on my strat, and I think a lighter low E would probably be too quiet for the bridge pickups on either.

    I think that's why lighter string sets are bundled with heavier (ish) bottom strings. They're directed more toward bridge pickup use.

    The conventional wisdom is that lighter strings are thinner/twangier sounding. But I don't think that's necessarily true. In my experience. if I pick hard, I get twang and some pitch bend on a light string, but in a heavier string I get a percussive attack and less timbre and pitch change.

    If I lighten up on a light string, it diminishes those effects, though I never can quite capture the percussiveness of a heavier string. But when I play fast, I tend to pick harder, and I can be back in the twang zone. It's a balancing act.

    John
    Last edited by John A.; 11-13-2019 at 01:37 PM.

  7. #6

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    My preference for string gauge is similar to what Rich Severson describes in this video:


  8. #7

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    Rick,

    Fingertip pain (which started at age 61) has caused me to revisit light strings (which I used way back in my rock and blues days)

    While I still keep most of my guitars strung up with TI 12 flats, I have gone to DR Pure Blues 10's on a few guitars. They are a 10-46 set with a plain third and are pure nickel with a round core. I have to change my attack on the guitars that I have strung up with the 10's, but am able to get a great jazz sound. I would buy a wound third, but the lightest they make is a 24 and I feel that would be unbalanced, so the plain third remains. I can see a day where all my guitars will have the DR's and if I live long enough, I may go down to 9's.

    Getting old ain't for sissies (or guys who like heavy strings).

    HTH

  9. #8

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    Jim Hall used pretty light strings, I just had to put .10s on my tele, because it's just what works, It sounds great when I play jazz on it... still using .12s on the gibson.. .10 or .11 on a hollow body sound fine to me too... i think it all depends on the size of the frets, the shape of the neck and the scale length

  10. #9

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    I guess string gauges are "standardized" based on something.

    But I too, mix sets. I like my strings a lot heavier than you, but I'm in agreement of not liking a super heavy bottom end. So I (on a 24.75" scale guitar) use a set of .012's, but replace the E and B with those from a set of .013's. Might even try a .014 high E next go around.

  11. #10

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    I just cannot go with those light strings. Possible a .11 to .52 but ideally I have to have .12 -.52. I can do with a .13 on the top too depending on the guitar. If I use anything lighter I feel like I am pulling the strings out of tune easily. So far in my old age at 58 I have fortunate with no loss of hand strength and no pain. On my own Barker which is a 24 27/32 scale length I find .12 .54 to be prefect because the shorter scale length compared to the 25.5. The high E at .10 I just cannot do that but maybe SS has the upper hand ( so to speak) and when 61 ( hopefully too) I might feel different. I do play acoustically much of the time so maybe that has something to do with it and of course I don't have monster chops so add another element.

  12. #11

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    There are a lot of variables re: hand fatigue. I never had any in my 3-hours-a-day years, but I was mid 30's then. In my 40's now and found that I did get some hand fatigue when playing my 1.75" nut width, 24.9" scale, full depth archtop over the past year if doing longer practice days (virtually never hitting 3 hours anymore). I'm now mostly practicing on a 1 11/16" nut guitar with a very slightly shorter scale length - and in fact now with rounds vs flats previously - and I think mostly due to the smaller nut width/overall narrower neck, I'm not getting any fatigue despite ramping up my practice recently. Also the guitar is a thinline so my hand is just a bit closer to my body.

    Lots of variables.

    btw I play 13 - 54's currently with a 14 high E, and a 24w G.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by marcwhy
    See how "tension" plays into your selections: Stringjoy Tension Calculator.
    That's pretty nifty, tnx!

  14. #13

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    Give a look to Dogal Strings, Red Tag flat wound, R67C set (010 013 018c 024c 032c 040c; 'c' stands for 'wound').
    I use Dogal Expressive Jazz Strings, R40C set (012 016c 020c 028c 034c 046c) with a fantastic wound B on my 175.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple
    Give a look to Dogal Strings, Red Tag flat wound, R67C set (010 013 018c 024c 032c 040c; 'c' stands for 'wound').
    I use Dogal Expressive Jazz Strings, R40C set (012 016c 020c 028c 034c 046c) with a fantastic wound B on my 175.
    A wound 2nd!!! I’ve never noticed these before. I think I’ll order a few sets just for fun. My osteoarthritis isn’t getting worse, but I’m not getting any younger

  16. #15

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    I also think tension is relative depending on the day and what is going on. I have notice if I play for maybe 2 hours straight then take a break and play later in the day the guitar feels much easier to play. Warming up has much to do with playing too especially as we age. The guitar is a physical instrument and requires use of muscles, tendons, and energy even. From a purely physical standpoint the body does better as blood flows through better and aging make warming up all the more important. It is also important to warm up slow. Play a higher action acoustic guitar for days in a row and then return to a Les Paul with 10-46. That takes an adjustment and it works both ways.

    On another front as a runner for 42 years now I need to warm up. From my 20's -30 I just went out and starting running no thought sometimes pushing pace right away. These days approaching 60 I walk fast for about 5-6 minutes then begin slow running. It now takes 2 miles before I even feel like I am loose. I find playing the guitar pretty much same at least for not playing sloppy. I find 15 minutes of precise arpeggios and clean playing does wonders for the session. No matter what anyone claims our physical skills on the guitar begin to get worse as we age. It probably is nothing like heavy athletic stuff but it still drops off. My instinct says that if we make it to age 70 we will begin to really notice. What is hoped is that experience can actually offset this problem. The hands may not move like we want or even hurt after awhile but experience should allow us to be musically as interesting.

  17. #16

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    given the choice between playing the guitar happily or avoiding it or playing less because of hand/finger pain....i'd play with 07's if i had to!!! like billy gibbons does!!...james burton one of the greatest tele pickers of all time used 08-38...clapton and page cut much of their classic stuff with 08 sets...

    once you plug into an amp or monitor with headphones, and are hearing less of the actual guitar acoustic projection, the need for heavy strings diminishes...

    light strings also change your touch...what you lose in some respects you make up for in others

    luck

    cheers

  18. #17

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    Play the strings you want to play. I don't think you have to play a certain set of strings for a certain genre--like "I gotta have 13s on my guitar because I'm playing Jazz." Bah!

    Just realize that certain strings are gonna have certain tone. Don't expect 9s to sound like 12s. 9s sound like 9s, not better, not worse than any other gauge, just different. And you can "heavy up" with EQ and by playing louder, to a certain extent.

    I like heavier strings for Jazz (12s for me) because they influence my playing technique in certain ways, but not that they sound "better" than any other gauge.

    For example--my vibrato technique with 9s and 10s is the vertical, move the string up-and-down type, while my technique with the 12s is more like the "violin" technique. I just go by the feel.

    I do believe though, that in most states, there IS a law against playing Jazz with round-wound strings, or a plain 3rd.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by krusty
    A wound 2nd!!! I’ve never noticed these before.
    the wound b was very common early on...the first charlie christian pickups were set up for a wound b!!...a holdover from pre electric days....they soon realized with a pickup, you can use an unwound b and still have presence...as a result the next version of the cc pickups had the notch under the b string!!



    cheers

  20. #19

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    one more thing!! the biggest problem when suddenly going from 12's or 13's to 09's is due to the nut and saddle slots being worn to large for the lighter strings..that's why you hear comments like it sounds fizzy or buzzy...these issues have to be addressed...(also trussrod, pickup/pole piece height issues)...but once you set up your guitar for dedicated use with 09's (or whatever light strings)...these problems will disappear

    if you have serious pain issues and want to go to lighter strings, the guitar must be tweaked to accommodate them!!!..not difficult at all, but often overlooked....& entirely worth the effort!!!

    cheers

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
    I use light strings and tune down. John Stowell also does both.

    Very interesting, Do you tune down to Eb?

    I recall hearing that Jimi and SRV did that, I assume to help with aggressive string bending.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by deacon Mark
    I also think tension is relative depending on the day and what is going on. I have notice if I play for maybe 2 hours straight then take a break and play later in the day the guitar feels much easier to play. Warming up has much to do with playing too especially as we age. The guitar is a physical instrument and requires use of muscles, tendons, and energy even. From a purely physical standpoint the body does better as blood flows through better and aging make warming up all the more important. It is also important to warm up slow. Play a higher action acoustic guitar for days in a row and then return to a Les Paul with 10-46. That takes an adjustment and it works both ways.

    On another front as a runner for 42 years now I need to warm up. From my 20's -30 I just went out and starting running no thought sometimes pushing pace right away. These days approaching 60 I walk fast for about 5-6 minutes then begin slow running. It now takes 2 miles before I even feel like I am loose. I find playing the guitar pretty much same at least for not playing sloppy. I find 15 minutes of precise arpeggios and clean playing does wonders for the session. No matter what anyone claims our physical skills on the guitar begin to get worse as we age. It probably is nothing like heavy athletic stuff but it still drops off. My instinct says that if we make it to age 70 we will begin to really notice. What is hoped is that experience can actually offset this problem. The hands may not move like we want or even hurt after awhile but experience should allow us to be musically as interesting.

    Should aim for 80. :0

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by neatomic
    one more thing!! the biggest problem when suddenly going from 12's or 13's to 09's is due to the nut and saddle slots being worn to large for the lighter strings..that's why you hear comments like it sounds fizzy or buzzy...these issues have to be addressed...(also trussrod, pickup/pole piece height issues)...but once you set up your guitar for dedicated use with 09's (or whatever light strings)...these problems will disappear

    if you have serious pain issues and want to go to lighter strings, the guitar must be tweaked to accommodate them!!!..not difficult at all, but often overlooked....& entirely worth the effort!!!

    cheers

    would that involve a new nut and bridge?

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
    would that involve a new nut and bridge?
    it could..but not necessarily....wooden- ebony/rosewood bridges and even metal/brass bridge saddles can be slightly sanded to accommodate lighter strings...nuts can even be refilled and recut...all without any severe impact on the guitars look or value!!

    of course outright replacements will also work...but, why i wrote once you dedicate the guitar to lighter strings it can be made to work well!!...

    i have played guitar much of my life..everyday...live and breathe guitars...surrounded by them...all my friends are musicians...will do anything to be able to continue to, within my power..if that means super light strings..so be it!!! like i wrote billy gibbons 07's!!...(tho i have used 07's before!!! dan armstrong made'm in the early 70's!!..i liked 'em...hah)

    cheers

  25. #24

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    This doesn't actually relate to string gauge as such, but I've started (on my electric guitars) having the action lower on the bass side than the treble side. This is the complete opposite of what I usually would do.

    For the treble strings I like them slightly higher as I like to "dig in" to them more, and I feel they have richer sound with the action fractionally higher. Particularly on some solid body guitars , the high strings can sound a bit thin.

    The softer feel on the bass strings makes playing so much easier. Tonally, I don't really hear a disadvantage. If I was playing big band rhythm guitar it would obviously be terrible, but there are laminated arch tops or solid body electric guitars being used in a small jazz combo setting - mainly playing swing/bop and chord melody.

    Recently I had a marathon of a gig, 5hrs - had little breaks here and there but I was really please to not have fatigue in my hand at the end of it. Having the action low on the bass side helped considerably.

    I would imagine putting lighter gauge bass strings on would have a similar effect.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by entresz
    This doesn't actually relate to string gauge as such, but I've started (on my electric guitars) having the action lower on the bass side than the treble side. This is the complete opposite of what I usually would do.

    For the treble strings I like them slightly higher as I like to "dig in" to them more, and I feel they have richer sound with the action fractionally higher. Particularly on some solid body guitars , the high strings can sound a bit thin.
    yes this is known effect...but also has to do with improperly cut nut/bridge saddle slots...to get the high b & e strings to sound correctly and in tune requires slightly higher action..the fundamental lower notes ring truer despite being slightly lower action...

    also affected by the fact that the higher strings are the most likely to be played higher up the neck...not many people are playing 22nd fret d note on low e string! hah

    cheers