The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedawg
    Thanks

    You're probably right .....

    I spent too much time testing analog to digital converters and digital to analog converters many years ago. Still trying to figure out if Nyquist is my friend or not. And all those fast Fourier transforms.

    And then those digital to analog converters spitting out pulses into low pass filters that remove their high frequency pulses to recreate the analog signal. Hmmm

    Then spent many years trying to keep the 0s and 1s flying across networks spanning the globe. And what happened to all of those IP packets that never made it? Are they still out there?


    Can't erase those 0s and 1s from my memory and all those transistors turning on, turning off, turning on, turning off ...




    The machines are rising......Your IP packets were put to good use.....

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastwoodMike
    The machines are rising......Your IP packets were put to good use.....

  4. #128

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    Maybe someone can explain to me if these Tonemasters are so fantastic why are there thousands of these things for sale used ???

  5. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by pdfiddler
    Maybe someone can explain to me if these Tonemasters are so fantastic why are there thousands of these things for sale used ???
    The simplest explanation is in the end people are not satisfied with their sound and put them for sale.

    Another possiblity is Fender is selling so many of them, that is natural you also see so many used ones for sale.
    Last edited by jorgemg1984; 01-13-2023 at 12:53 PM.

  6. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by pdfiddler
    Maybe someone can explain to me if these Tonemasters are so fantastic why are there thousands of these things for sale used ???
    Is that even true? I see a grand total of 60 used Tone Masters of all models on Reverb at the moment. That's a far cry from "thousands" of TMTR for sale.

    What's your basis for claiming "thousands" of used Tone Master Twin Reverbs are out there for sale?

    You could also ask "If Ibanez guitars are so great, why are so many for sale used?" There are tons of Ibanez archtops for sale used, but that doesn't mean they aren't good guitars.

  7. #131

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    Sixty on just one site would seem to be a lot. There are many, many places to sell things other than Reverb. I have no idea how many are for sale in total, though, because I've never looked. I have no interest in them.

  8. #132

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    Lawson,
    Dont even bother bro.
    YOU know what you are doing and you like your Tonemaster. Thats all that matters.
    I love mine too. In fact, I cant imagine being happier with an amp.
    There are others who probably have more critical ears than I do. Bottom line is, they work for us. Our needs are satisfied.
    And I can pick up my Tonemaster with one hand and carry it up the street to my neighbors house and not end up in intensive care with 15 collapsed vertebrae in my spine..
    They are great amps. 60 more people will have a chance to save a couple of bucks and decide for themselves..
    Good seeing you on the forum.
    JD



    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    Is that even true? I see a grand total of 60 used Tone Masters of all models on Reverb at the moment. That's a far cry from "thousands" of TMTR for sale.

    What's your basis for claiming "thousands" of used Tone Master Twin Reverbs are out there for sale?

    You could also ask "If Ibanez guitars are so great, why are so many for sale used?" There are tons of Ibanez archtops for sale used, but that doesn't mean they aren't good guitars.

  9. #133

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    I am assuming that if people are not happy with them it is only because when you hit them with modest dirt or fuzz, you get that high fizzy sound. I would also assume that most people who buy a twin are looking for the ultimate pedal platform amp or a blues amp. I also think that blues now days (as compared to pre SRV), is much more a dirty sound. So when I have radically “attenuated” the TM stuff it gets a little woofy. If I wanted to get a seriously pushed tube sound at lowish volumes, the 2nd to last “attenuation” spot in my mind is the best in TM. That is still pretty loud.

    That is all outside of the typical jazz use. I do believe that the TM stuff has a more limited application for rock, blues, and country.

    Hopefully the issues I mentioned has been addressed in the update. I believe they have in the TMDR, or at least in the TMDR Blonde. If those issues were fixed, I would buy two TM Twins, because they are so close in sound, that I could never complain.

    Maybe not because I have really moved into using a boutique Fender Tweed Deluxe as my tube amp sound.

    As far as I can tell, the TM stuff is the best modeling stuff around, even compared to the IR stuff I have personally played. However it has been a number if years since I came across the famous IR amp… I can not remember its’ name.

  10. #134

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    To Mr. Lawson-Stone:

    In your demonstrations where do you have the tone knobs on your guitars set at?

    Cheers - Avery Roberts

  11. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avery Roberts
    To Mr. Lawson-Stone:

    In your demonstrations where do you have the tone knobs on your guitars set at?

    Cheers - Avery Roberts
    That was some time ago so I don't exactly recall, but my habit is basically to put the tone all the way up and the volume maybe on 7 or 8 to have a little wiggle room.

  12. #136

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    IMHO the Fender Twin- and pretty much all other Fender amps- is a poor choice for a platform for pedal use. Doesn't matter whether it's the TMTR or a real tube Twin. The sound is just too colored by the tone stack. You want a neutral non-coloring amp to use with petals. Frankly, something like an AI Clarus set flat would be a much better choice.

    Does the TMTR sound "exactly like a real Twin?" No, but you can line up 10 honest-to-goodness Fender Twin Reverbs next to each other and try them all out and every one of those b***ards is gonna sound a little different. The TMTR will be within that spectrum. One of them might even sound like the idealized version in your head. Or maybe not.

  13. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cunamara
    IMHO the Fender Twin- and pretty much all other Fender amps- is a poor choice for a platform for pedal use. Doesn't matter whether it's the TMTR or a real tube Twin. The sound is just too colored by the tone stack. You want a neutral non-coloring amp to use with petals. Frankly, something like an AI Clarus set flat would be a much better choice.

    Does the TMTR sound "exactly like a real Twin?" No, but you can line up 10 honest-to-goodness Fender Twin Reverbs next to each other and try them all out and every one of those b***ards is gonna sound a little different. The TMTR will be within that spectrum. One of them might even sound like the idealized version in your head. Or maybe not.
    A lot of people have bought and used them for pedal platforms so you may incur some disagreement though I am inclined to agree with you there to some extent. Using gain boxes for actual additional gain has gotten me mediocre results IMO, though others have complimented the sound, while cranking the amp and setting a gain box up neutral or very slightly boosted seems to work really good. I think the idea of a pedal platform is kind of stupid anyhow, why not buy an amp that has a decent gain sound to begin with?

    I have two SF Twin both have the blackfaced treatment. I can't tell them apart aside the speakers I have loaded. Both have JJ tubes. Different preamp tubes can give a different voice. It may be because a lot of the component values inside drift over time and so two old amps will have slightly different voices. If values are in-spec as they should be, I think it is what makes the Twin so useful. It's like McDonalds. It serves the same food pretty much all over the world except a Twin is more like a gourmet restaurant instead of fast food trash.

    As for modeling amps I have yet to hear one that wasn't stiff and harsh when A/B'ed next to the tube amp it models especially run with gain at volume. Passable I suppose. To me the most telling thing is it's trying to copy a tube amp's sound, which leaves me asking why I wouldn't just buy a tube amp instead. So all the advanced digital guitar tech essentially offers little more than a recreation of better equipment. A working tube Twin can be had for less than a tonemaster. I guess the weight doesn't bother me. In 10 years the tonemaster will be like the cyber twin, the original roland cube, the mustang series of amps, the kemper, the johnson millenium mostly unwanted with no value retention. Thanks for listening.

  14. #138

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    I think most people who are using an amp as a pedal platform, are not looking for a clean studio sound for timebased fx. (The 80s were a different time). People who are looking to run clean timebased fx, are running stereo rigs with fx loops in the amp.

    I still think of a sliverface twin as being a clean sounding amp. Kinda bright and one dimensional, until the volume is uncomfortably high.

    I also think that the musicman amps do that clean thing even better.

    Hitting a Twin with the right fuzz, is an experience. In others words, fuzz, or distortion are not being used to sound like an amp itself, but as an effect into an amp. (That effects includes the coloration of the preamp tubes). The Twin takes those approaches really well. Very few (if not none) dirt pedals sound good when not in front of an amp. I assume that no dirt pedal sound good in front of an amp designed for acoustic instruments.

    As far as an digital device retaining its’ value, that will never happen. I am surprised how well Kemper has been able to stay relevant for as long as it has.

    There has to be a point at where computational power is so vast, that is it overkill. Apple knows that, and that is why they are not backwards compatible. How much computing do you need for doing word processing. Not much. That is why, those programs have become annual payments.

    I do think that there is an area of sound that digital stuff still has not been able to capture in guitar amps. The area were digital stuff still has not nailed, is that area between clean and dirty. Super clean is fine, and heavily dirty is fine. That area most people want to capture, where the mids get rich and respond to guitar attack and volume. I have not really head any digital stuff do that super well. I almost bough a UA tweed type pedal. I ended up just buying a tweed. I guess that shows were I am at.

    However the TM stuff did impress me. And also, how close does anyone need to be. I doubt that if I went to a performance, I would be able to hear the difference between a TM or a tube twin. I would be able to hear a TM hit with fuzz, because it has that high fizzy thing happen.

    However, my thoughts are limited to my experiences.
    Last edited by st.bede; 01-15-2023 at 01:53 PM.

  15. #139

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    Some Sunday rumination on my experience with the Tone Master Twin Reverb:

    Several years ago, after enjoying Lawson-Stone’s early posts in this thread, I grabbed a TMTR from a Fender dealer buddy. Having had it a few years now, I can say that it has been a really nice amp.

    It captures a lot of the character of the Twin Reverb I bought back in 1976 when I started getting serious about guitar. That Twin had a great, fat, clean tone but was so hellishly loud that the neighbors called the cops on me more than once! I remember the reverb on that amp being super lush. But, me wanting something more rock and roll, the Twin soon got traded to an older musician for his 100 watt Marshall Super Lead and speaker cabs (which I went on to gig with for quite a few years).

    After maturing (and mellowing) a bit, I came back to Fender and gigged with nothing but blackface Fenders for the next couple of decades. During that time, I had a ‘64 and ‘65, and a ‘67 Deluxe reverb (more compliments on my tone with that amp than any other before or since), various mid-60s Princeton Reverbs, and a particularly good ‘66 Super Reverb (that amp’s reverb is also dreamily good). Although most of those amps are long gone, I have held on to the Super Reverb for all these years. It is a lifetime companion/holy grail amp for me. All this is not to boast, but to demonstrate that I have a good understanding of the blackface Fender tone, vibe, and particularly the reverb effect they incorporate.

    Now, back to the TMTR—as much as I enjoy it, if I’m being honest, I do not love the reverb. it has exceedingly long tails and no splashiness. It doesn’t much sound like my old TR or my trusty Super Reverb. It’s not a bad reverb at all, it’s just more like a plate reverb than it is like a tube driven TR inspired spring reverb. Fender even tried to address the over-the-top nature of this reverb in a firmware update several months after I bought the amp. The update did tame the reverb a bit, but it still is not amazingly faithful to the amp the TMTR seeks to emulate. Thankfully, I only use a touch of reverb anyway, so it’s fine.

    Otherwise, the roundness and girth of the TMTR is very pleasing and I’ve been very happy with it. It is one of the amps I use the most for practicing and teaching. I don’t care about resale value as I don’t intend to let it go. I’m glad I chose the ToneMaster Twin over the Deluxe. For jazz, it’s really excellent.

  16. #140

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    Love mine (and the old Ibby FA-100)


  17. #141

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    Increasingly I find the TMTR a "no drama, just play it" amp. What I like most about it is how little I have to think about it. Too loud, back off the attenuator, leave the front panel alone. Recording? The XLR out is excellent. I just can't find anything about it that I don't like, and much about it that I enjoy every time I play it.

  18. #142

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    Quote Originally Posted by DawgBone
    (…)
    I think the idea of a pedal platform is kind of stupid anyhow, why not buy an amp that has a decent gain sound to begin with?
    (…)
    Some players just performs in different rooms. The gain from 5 Watter is ok in a tight club but on an other stage it just can’t move enough air and You need a 30 Watter or more. And if You try to get gainy sounds with a 30 Watter or more in a tight club You’ll have to have a loud drummer for an excuse!

    With a pedal platform amp and fitting gain pedals You’ll manage all size stages successfully.

  19. #143

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herbie
    Some players just performs in different rooms. The gain from 5 Watter is ok in a tight club but on an other stage it just can’t move enough air and You need a 30 Watter or more. And if You try to get gainy sounds with a 30 Watter or more in a tight club You’ll have to have a loud drummer for an excuse!

    With a pedal platform amp and fitting gain pedals You’ll manage all size stages successfully.
    I play in different rooms myself. I guess in an ideal world I should own three different sized amps, big, medium, and small. That means six amps in total since 2 is 1 and 1 is none if you have an amp go down and need repairs, assuming you are playing for part or all of your income. I don't know in what world a 5-15 watt amp works for guys, they must play with absolute weaklings on the drum kit or be background music for people eating dinner. Or low intensity jazz I guess. I only hire loud drummers so 15 watts won't net me any clean headroom, it won't work. I'd sound like Eddie Van Halen trying to play a slow RnB ballad. I manage to get by with a Twin and an OD pedal for smaller clubs. It isn't ideal but it's more ideal than taking up what little space I have in this tiny house with six different amps sitting around. I've played the attenuator game, it's worse than just turning the amp down and is more junk to tote unless it's built into the amp. And if it's built into the amp it's one more thing to malfunction. I prefer stripped down equipment arrangements.

    One thing I have learned is if you have a band that plays dynamically as a group you can trick the ears of the listeners and get away with substantially more volume. People say Twins are paint peeling loud but coming from half stack 100 watt Marshall land they are like a toy. Barely enough clean headroom to maintain edge of breakup or a pure clean tone over a loud band with horns and keys. Hence the Quad Reverb 4x12 and Super Six 6x10. I know you can mic amps now etc etc but not every gig offers sound reinforcement and I'm not mic'ing everything myself for a 500 dollar gig in a medium sized club just cause I want to use a five watt amp.

    Speaker selection plays a part in how loud an amp will be as well. Low efficiency speakers have much less volume than something like a JBL or EV.

  20. #144

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    Your wonderful tones and playing are what convinced me after weeks of vacillating on what amp to buy to pick up Twin Tone Master; thank you for sharing! -Alan