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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175 View Post
    I wonder what companies like Quilter and Henriksen are thinking about how the Fender TM's will affect their sales. Henriksen just released a tube preamp version for more tube-like sound. Quilters whole mojo has been Fender in a light package. Not only Fender TM's are more like the real thing but they are cheaper than both Quilter and Henriksen amps. Is this the end of companies like Quilter?
    Quilter seems to have found its niche with small heads. Fender is going with combo amps, like the 2x12" TMTR -- nothing like that from Quilter.

    Is this different enough for both to thrive? Remains to be seen...
    Build bridges, not walls.

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  3. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gitfiddler View Post
    Lawson, there will also be a tonal difference due to the lack of a rectifier tube in your new TMTR vs. the rectified Princeton Reverb.
    Or have the engineers at Fender figured a way to simulate rectifier 'sag' into their circuitry?

    Either way, your favorable review has me seriously wondering if this is my next gigging amp.
    I have wondering about things like that too. All I know is that they claim to have exhaustively studied the whole response patterns of the TR and devoted a full "core" of a quad core processor to reproducing that whole "personality." I don't have enough experience with the tube TRs to say, but I have played twins enough to have initial skepticism when I plugged it in and then a kind of stunned "WOW." As I"ve continued to play it, I have played it alongside several others:

    PRRI with 12" CR Speaker
    DVMark Micro 50
    DVMark Micro 50+ Polytone Pedal
    Quilter Interblock 45
    SuperChamp X2 Head model for Twin and Princeton
    Polytone Minibrute II
    A Laney Style EL84 15 watt amp

    The Tone Master definitely rises above all but the Princeton, which I have so many biases for I doubt I'm qualified to compare. I also LOVE all these other amps. But the TMTR is seriously good. I actually love the Reverb on the Tone Master. It's digital reverb done really right, IMO.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  4. #53

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    Wow pleasantly surprised to hear that the TMTR was #2. I need another amp like I need a third nose, but I’m mighty tempted.

  5. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by wzpgsr View Post
    Wow pleasantly surprised to hear that the TMTR was #2. I need another amp like I need a third nose, but I’m mighty tempted.
    I own more amps than is healthy, and I love each one of them. But this TMTR could easily be the only amp I'd need. Dial it down to 12 watts or lower for small settings, open it up to 22, 40, 85 watts for earth-moving apocalyptic stuff. And I really love the fatness and warmth it generates. The reverb is almost decadent it's so luscious. I like it better than any reverb I've ever played.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  6. #55

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    This thread is very helpful Lawson. I am currently trying to decide between a PRRI and one of the Tone Masters. As I noted in the other thread, I have A/B'd them myself and did not feel that one was necessarily better than the other, but I did feel that the PRRI sounded slightly more present and "real" (analog? tube-y?) than the Tone Master (the Deluxe in this case). That said, I have to have an attenuator and line out. So I'm currently trying to decide if I should buy a PRRI (with the 12" CR speaker) and one of the better attenuator/line out boxes (Tone King Ironman, Koch Dummybox, etc.), or a Tone Master (either DR or TR - that's a separate decision). Given those options, if you could only have one, which would you choose?

  7. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by conchmusic View Post
    This thread is very helpful Lawson. I am currently trying to decide between a PRRI and one of the Tone Masters. As I noted in the other thread, I have A/B'd them myself and did not feel that one was necessarily better than the other, but I did feel that the PRRI sounded slightly more present and "real" (analog? tube-y?) than the Tone Master (the Deluxe in this case). That said, I have to have an attenuator and line out. So I'm currently trying to decide if I should buy a PRRI (with the 12" CR speaker) and one of the better attenuator/line out boxes (Tone King Ironman, Koch Dummybox, etc.), or a Tone Master (either DR or TR - that's a separate decision). Given those options, if you could only have one, which would you choose?
    Knowing what I know now, with my TMTR, if I was looking or a lower wattage, smaller package, I'd go with the Tone Master Deluxe Reverb easily, unless the Princeton just has a sound you really want. After all, it's not a Deluxe Reverb, and if you want a *Princeton* you need a *Princeton.* Otherwise, if I were shopping for a low/medium wattage combo, the Tone Master Deluxe Reverb checks the boxes. From my TR I can tell you the Line Out is incredibly good. You can adjust its level separately from the master volume, so you can record from the line and monitor from the amp itself at whatever volume works for you. I like that. I really was jonesing for a Twin, but if I didn't have the Princeton and wanted that smaller package, I'd go for the TMDR.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  8. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone View Post
    After all, it's not a Deluxe Reverb, and if you want a *Princeton* you need a *Princeton.* .
    Funnily enough, this entire thread has me gassing again for a PR with a 12". I've never been much of a DR fan, and that bias tremolo on the PR is so sweet. Best trem and reverb I've ever heard was a PRRI.

  9. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by ruger9 View Post
    Funnily enough, this entire thread has me gassing again for a PR with a 12". I've never been much of a DR fan, and that bias tremolo on the PR is so sweet. Best trem and reverb I've ever heard was a PRRI.
    I have the Sweetwater "Limited Edition" with the 12" Cannabis Rex and the tweed cover... CRAZY about it. Love it. If you want a PRRI that's the one. I have been told also that those were put through a bit more QA but I don't know exactly what.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  10. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone View Post
    I have the Sweetwater "Limited Edition" with the 12" Cannabis Rex and the tweed cover... CRAZY about it. Love it. If you want a PRRI that's the one. I have been told also that those were put through a bit more QA but I don't know exactly what.
    Well, I DO love the C-Rex, it's my favorite speaker. Not crazy about a tweed PRRI tho.. the one I'm eyeing (and it's also a special model, not currently being made, so I'll have to wait for a used one) is the "Knotty Pine" version with the 12" Celestion Alnico Cream in it.

    BUT... I would also do a brown tolex one, a western tolex one, or even a black one if it were cheap enough... mainly I want the 12" baffle already installed, so I don't have to change it myself.

  11. #60

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    It would be interesting to see where Fender goes with the firmware updates for these amps. I'm really close to putting either a Twin or Deluxe on layby. I've not tried the Twin, but I tried the Deluxe and was really impressed.

    It sounded far better than the Deluxe Reverb RI I used to use back when I was studying. That thing was horrible - mind you, that amp was probably poorly maintained and likely biased poorly etc. so it's really unfair to compare them. The Tonemaster Deluxe sounded beautiful.

    Like the tube deluxe reverb, the TM is very bright, it's that 'bright cap' being simulated. It would be cool if Fender made firmware updates that for example modelled the Deluxe with the bright cap clipped.

    At this stage I'm heading more towards the TM Twin, I like the more flexible EQ. Apparently its weight is close to my Quilter Aviator Twin Ten. That's very appealing.
    Last edited by entresz; 10-29-2019 at 08:38 PM.

  12. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by entresz View Post
    It would be interesting to see where Fender goes with the firmware updates for these amps.
    .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...................................
    I like the more flexible EQ.
    If updates of the firmware do become available, are the amps capable of being updated by the user?
    Serious question...I'm not very knowledgeable about firmware, etc.

    The flexibility of the EQ is drawing me toward the TM TR also.

  13. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by entresz View Post
    It would be interesting to see where Fender goes with the firmware updates for these amps. I'm really close to putting either a Twin or Deluxe on layby. I've not tried the Twin, but I tried the Deluxe and was really impressed.

    It sounded far better than the Deluxe Reverb RI I used to use back when I was studying. That thing was horrible - mind you, that amp was probably poorly maintained and likely biased poorly etc. so it's really unfair to compare them. The Tonemaster Deluxe sounded beautiful.

    Like the tube deluxe reverb, the TM is very bright, it's that 'bright cap' being simulated. It would be cool if Fender made firmware updates that for example modelled the Deluxe with the bright cap clipped.

    At this stage I'm heading more towards the TM Twin, I like the more flexible EQ. Apparently its weight is close to my Quilter Aviator Twin Ten. That's very appealing.
    I have heard that when the volume goes over 3 or 4, the simulation is that the bright cap doesn't affect the tone.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  14. #63

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    Have you tried next to a Quilter with 2x12 cab?

  15. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57 View Post
    Have you tried next to a Quilter with 2x12 cab?
    No I haven't. I have a Yamaha G100-210 and use the speaker cabinet for some other amps, most often, a Silvertone 1484 head. I should try that cab with my Quilter Interblock 45, maybe that would provide a good example. You think?
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  16. #65

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    Continuing to try to capture the difference "in the room" between the TMTR and the PRRI, I hit on the easiest way: just record with my phone, crummy mic and all. Below is the clip of the same 90 seconds or so of playing through each amp. I set the TMTR attenuator to 12W to match the PRRI volume, reverbs about the same. Just put the iPhone in a bracket and hit "record."

    I've not ID'd the amps. That's not to make it a "test" but simply to help us think about how each sounds, how they are different. Of course it's fun to guess, so have at it if you wish.

    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  17. #66

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    I won't hazard a guess, but I preferred the tone of the first amp.
    _____________________________________________
    "When the chord changes, you should change" Joe Pass

  18. #67

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    Same here. I'm not in love with either, but the first one does sound better to me, softer and less harsh.

  19. #68

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    To Lawson and all who have contributed to this great thread (and the sister thread a few lines down.

    The latest step-change in my chemio therapy has produced persistently high temperatures whose source is yet undetermined.

    4 days so far in hospital plus probably 3/4 days to come, gives me time to read, listen and reflect on points of view that are mostly objective and honest in their intentions - it’s a pleasure to see a series of posts like these from knowledgeable and respectful informed and generous people.
    Reflecting around these posts has helped me to make a choice on the replacement amp for my main amp, a 2008 Princeton Recording (deceased) , and it will be the Tonemaster Deluxe Recording.
    Once again, it’s great to be part of a forum where people are (mostly) there to generously share as opposed to insisting that only they have “the right answer”.

    THANK YOU TO ALL THE FORUM FOR HONEST AND FAIR INPUT ON WHAT HAD THE POTENTIAL TO BE A PRETTY POLEMIC SUBJECT.

    (PS wish I had a silent guitar whilst I’m in hospital....)
    Last edited by Ray175; 11-03-2019 at 12:01 PM.

  20. #69

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    I do too! Or a loud one. I hate to see someone ill and incapacitated. I wish you a speedy recovery. Hang in there mon ami.

  21. #70

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    I’ve appreciated every post and found the conversation helpful indeed. So glad that in your personal pain and illness you’ve had some pleasure and thoughts reading the thread. We easily forget the human realities behind the online personas and you’ve given us a good reality check.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town