The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    So you got a full body Jazz box, but can't get that nice jazz sound, even when you play with no pick like Wes. Thinking about buying a new amp, maybe a different guitar, or how about some different pick-ups? Thinking about having the BillM or Frommel mods done to your amp?

    I found picking further up the neck gives a better Jazz tone but is not comfortable and difficult.


    I was in this situation and tried a simple trick:

    Change out the 1st or second pre-amp tube from a 12AX7 (gain of 100) to a 12AU7 (30) or 12AT7 ( 60). lowering the pre-amp gain gives much smoother warm tones and makes the volume and tone controls less sensitive and therefore more controllable. I tried this on my Blues Jr and Hot Rod Deville, could not be happier.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    [or 5751's or 7025's]

  4. #3

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    I wouldn't go down to a 12AU7, too much noise floor. A 12AY7 is as low as I'd go. A 5751 can be a good choice as well.

    Another thing that can help is 250k pots in the guitar. Some humbuckers can actually be quite bright, and 250k can help pull the edge off without unbalancing the tone.

  5. #4

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    I use a 5751 in my Princeton Reverb clone. Couldn't be happier.

  6. #5

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    Step 1 - plug into a Polytone.


    Step 2 - play.

  7. #6

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    roll back guitar knobs

    cheers

  8. #7

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    On Fender amps with treble/bass controls, roll both to zero. With t/m/b/ controls, max mids, minimize t/b. Use input 2 in order to run the tubes a little hotter. On two-channel amps, use an A/B box to craft separate volume and tone envelopes for comping and soloing.

    Bonus tip: with a Deluxe Reverb you can route the reverb tank output to the normal channel to give tonal nuance to the reverberated signal. Fiddly, but nice.

    Not to mention the interactive possibilities of two pickups! My ES-175 lives in the both pups engaged, 3-7, 7-3 zone, depending on the room; dash or splash of reverb (on/off adding to the effect); good to go!

  9. #8

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    I also scored some of that post 1940's high tech gear with tone controls. So awesome!

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaymen
    I found picking further up the neck gives a better Jazz tone but is not comfortable and difficult.
    Address this.

    Change your posture or strap or whatever so that being able to pull a variety of useful sounds from the gear you've got becomes easier and more comfortable.

    The goal is to have changes in volume and timbre become just as reflexive a part of your playing as changes in speed or harmonic complexity or any other aspect of the musician's pallet. More tools lets us make more music!

  11. #10

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    For the simplest trick that may help, I'd suggest:

    1. find the pick that gives you the best sound.

    2. angle it until the sound gets even better.

    I use a Golden Gate Mandolin pick. It sounds mellowest when I angle it, maybe 30 degrees (calling the usual position where you pick with the flat side of the pick zero degrees -- and calling picking with the edge of the pick pointing toward the floor 90 degrees). I don't always do it, because it isn't always that comfortable, but it does sound best that way.

  12. #11

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    Picking near the neck and angling the pick is how I do it.

  13. #12

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    Using a Fender amp, turn bass up to 7, treble to 4. Then use a TS type pedal with low to no gain to get more mids and tame the bass and highs. Gives you a better tone than turning bass and treble to 0. Also you can use the scooped tone (no TS) for comping then engage TS for solos. Very old and time tested formula for Blackface amps.

  14. #13

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    I said bass to 7, treble to 4 because I think that roughly puts the scoop where the mid hump is in must TS type pedals. Note as you increase/decrease bass and treble tone controls in BF amps, you are not just changing the bass and trebles. You are also moving where the scoop is between low mids to high mids. Also you are changing pre amp gain which affects the response of the amp.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaymen
    I found picking further up the neck gives a better Jazz tone but is not comfortable and difficult.
    Do you anchor your wrist on the bridge?

  16. #15

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    I play on many diffrent parts of the neck from close to the bridge for a more sharp biteing sound all the way up on the neck to about the 13th fret for a more quite but mellow full sound. I guess I have learnd how to play with or with out an anchor point.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    For the simplest trick that may help, I'd suggest:

    1. find the pick that gives you the best sound.

    2. angle it until the sound gets even better.

    I use a Golden Gate Mandolin pick. It sounds mellowest when I angle it, maybe 30 degrees (calling the usual position where you pick with the flat side of the pick zero degrees -- and calling picking with the edge of the pick pointing toward the floor 90 degrees). I don't always do it, because it isn't always that comfortable, but it does sound best that way.
    A good starting point: Dunlop Jazz IIs in black. When I got my '06 Gibson ES-175, I tested the scores of picks I had in various shapes, sizes, and materials. When the dust settled, the black Jazz IIs were the clear winner. I went out and bought a gross.

  18. #17

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    I try not to let details like simple tone fixes get in the way of acquiring new gear.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    Using a Fender amp, turn bass up to 7, treble to 4. Then use a TS type pedal with low to no gain to get more mids and tame the bass and highs. Gives you a better tone than turning bass and treble to 0. Also you can use the scooped tone (no TS) for comping then engage TS for solos. Very old and time tested formula for Blackface amps.
    Excuse my ignorance, but what is a TS pedal?

    Thanks

    Doug

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug B
    Excuse my ignorance, but what is a TS pedal?

    Thanks

    Doug
    Yeah sorry, it stands for Tube Screamer pedal. Maybe it's not everybody's cup of tea but probably at least about one third of the overdrive/boost pedals in the market are TS variants. They have a built in EQ that either put a bit of a mid hump or cut bass and trebles. Basically they unscoop blackface Fender's when you want your lines to stand out. Fender scoop is great for rhythm playing, TS type pedals give you option the quickly get a tone that many prefer for solos.
    You can set the gain to zero if you want to keep it clean or put a little hair and compression in the tone by turning the gain up a bit.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    Yeah sorry, it stands for Tube Screamer pedal. Maybe it's not everybody's cup of tea but probably at least about one third of the overdrive/boost pedals in the market are TS variants. They have a built in EQ that either put a bit of a mid hump or cut bass and trebles. Basically they unscoop blackface Fender's when you want your lines to stand out. Fender scoop is great for rhythm playing, TS type pedals give you option the quickly get a tone that many prefer for solos.
    You can set the gain to zero if you want to keep it clean or put a little hair and compression in the tone by turning the gain up a bit.
    aH, OK, thanks.

  22. #21

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    I think the jazz sound is what we imagine when we think of jazz guitar in a non-specific way. When we listen to jazz guitarists with an open mind, we realise each has his or her own sound, or a sound at a particular time and place, or with a particular combination of guitar and amp.

    The search for the ideal tone is, I think, futile. It is an attempt to imitate something that is not really there, a generalisation, the mean of all possible sounds.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spook410
    I try not to let details like simple tone fixes get in the way of acquiring new gear.
    Amen, Spook! Just one more amp/guitar/effect/cable/book and I know I'll find my sound!!


  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick
    I think the jazz sound is what we imagine when we think of jazz guitar in a non-specific way. When we listen to jazz guitarists with an open mind, we realise each has his or her own sound, or a sound at a particular time and place, or with a particular combination of guitar and amp.

    The search for the ideal tone is, I think, futile. It is an attempt to imitate something that is not really there, a generalisation, the mean of all possible sounds.
    How can I ever thank you enough! You just saved me a fortune...LOL

  25. #24

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    'Guitar dealers hate this man. Find out how he can save you thousands.'

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick
    I think the jazz sound is what we imagine when we think of jazz guitar in a non-specific way. When we listen to jazz guitarists with an open mind, we realise each has his or her own sound, or a sound at a particular time and place, or with a particular combination of guitar and amp.

    The search for the ideal tone is, I think, futile. It is an attempt to imitate something that is not really there, a generalisation, the mean of all possible sounds.
    Players often love another player's sound -- and try to copy it. Nothing wrong with that. And I agree, you might not really want some kind of average of the players you like. Or, maybe you do -- you just want the ballpark.

    But, I think there is an ideal sound. It's the one that allows you to express your own style most completely. I think it's worth spending some time focusing on it. How much sustain? How much treble/bass/mids? How much grit? Reverb? Delay? Other? I'm convinced that there is benefit in thinking about what you want to convey in a solo and how you can craft a sound that will support it most strongly.

    For some, it's an archtop into a tube amp. Nobody sounded better than Wes.

    But, for others, it's all kinds of different approaches -- and the sound has to complement the rest of the approach. Wes' tone, supreme though it was, might not work for, say, Mike Stern or John Scofield.