The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #176

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    Dennis D is correct--if you work waiting on people you learn to be much less aggressive with them. You don't miss much about their behavior, though.

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  3. #177

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    I like my Tal’s the best though 2 pu I wish they were single. I never use the bridge pu ever.
    I wonder if the custom shop would build you a Tal with only 1 pickup? Now that would be a unique instrument! Unless the bridge pickup has some unknown impact in creating the distinctive tone that the Tal's seem to have.

  4. #178

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    I like my Tal’s the best though 2 pu I wish they were single. I never use the bridge pu ever.
    I never use the bridge pup on my Tal either but I am convinced that it contributes to the way it sounds. I'm not sure a Tal with only one pup would sound better. I prefer the 175 with 2 pups too. Never use it on my 175 either but it makes the 175 sound the way it should sound IMHO.

    DB

  5. #179

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    Quote Originally Posted by DB's Jazz Guitar Blog
    I never use the bridge pup on my Tal either but I am convinced that it contributes to the way it sounds. I'm not sure a Tal with only one pup would sound better. I prefer the 175 with 2 pups too. Never use it on my 175 either but it makes the 175 sound the way it should sound IMHO.

    DB
    I had a single PUP 175 and did not like it. All three of my 175's (my main gigging guitars) are two Pickup models. I also prefer the tone of my L-5CES to my L-5 WESMO. I too am convinced that the second PUP contributes to a warmer/darker and fatter sound. Plus in a dark room, blending the bridge PUP in, can be a big help.

  6. #180

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    To each his own. I've owned countless 2 pu 175's and other archtops as well. My single pu 175 is the best I have ever owned. I have also owned 2 L5CES guitars that were great but heavy. My favorite guitar is my Wesmo's and I love a dark sound also which I can easily achieve with my tone knob and my Henriksen 312. I also don't like the cluttered look with all the knobs and toggle that I never use. I like simple. Nothing wrong with loving 2 or 1 pu archtops. No wrong choice just a personal one. Just like floaters. Some guys love them which is great. I like a set in humbucker. A archtop with Gibson on the headstock is most likely going to sound pretty darn good.

  7. #181

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    The best 175 type guitar I've played recently (I'm looking for a single pup 175 in Europe btw) is an acoustic 165 of second generation. All electronic was removed and it sounds better than my carved guitars. I hesitate to buy it and put a single Mccarty on it.Do someone know if it fils the 165 ?Sorry if I'm off-topic.

  8. #182

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    Lawson I checked into a single pu Tal Farlow. It was a $2k upcharge. Typical Gibson. I got lucky with the single pu 175. Only a $500.00 upcharge but well worth it being Crimson made instead of Memphis. Hutch or Culberson on the label is significant when it comes to fit and finish.

  9. #183

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    $2000 for not cutting holes for an extra pu, switch and knobs?
    they should offer it @ a discount!


  10. #184

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    Quote Originally Posted by wintermoon
    $2000 for not cutting holes for an extra pu, switch and knobs?they should offer it @ a discount!
    That's Gibson
    Last edited by vinnyv1k; 10-14-2019 at 06:47 PM.

  11. #185

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    Here is something else that makes no sense with Gibson. The huge upcharge for natural finish. A sunburst finish is way more labor intensive and requires very skilled binding scrapers. Yes Gibson claims to use the finest figured woods for Blondes but I have some VSB's that have as nice or nicer figured wood than my Blondes. Currently for carved, a Blonde is a $2K upcharge. About 10 years ago I asked Culberson about this and he said when they do natural nothing in the booth can have any color only Blondes and they must make sure the booth is completely dust free. I still say VSB is way more work. Campellone would much rather do a Blonde then VSB I am sure and no upcharge.

  12. #186

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    When I learned that Gibson had halted production of the 175, I started looking for an alternative. I found this used Eastman 371 a few weeks ago for a fraction of the price of an Epiphone ES175. I am very happy with it.

  13. #187

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    Gibson has always had an upcharge for blonde.
    When they started offering natural finishes in the late 30s a sunburst Super 400 was, $400, natural $410
    In 1960 it was $650 sunburst, $675 for natural.
    Of course that's a small amount compared to the 2K upcharge today.
    One thing to consider is the fit of the neck to body joint has to be very clean on a blonde, not so much on sunburst.

  14. #188

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    Vinny,That's a great single-pu ES-175. They were always my favorite.

  15. #189

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    Quote Originally Posted by grandstick01


    When I learned that Gibson had halted production of the 175, I started looking for an alternative. I found this used Eastman 371 a few weeks ago for a fraction of the price of an Epiphone ES175. I am very happy with it.

    Well I think the Epi listed for about $800, and was usually available for a bit less than that. If you got it for a fraction of that price, that would be a good deal indeed.

    That is a sweet-looking guitar, by the way.

  16. #190

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    What’s Going On Now at Gibson?-img_0681-jpgWhat’s Going On Now at Gibson?-img_0674-jpgWhat’s Going On Now at Gibson?-img_0683-jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    Here is something else that makes no sense with Gibson. The huge upcharge for natural finish. A sunburst finish is way more labor intensive and requires very skilled binding scrapers. Yes Gibson claims to use the finest figured woods for Blondes but I have some VSB's that have as nice or nicer figured wood than my Blondes. Currently for carved, a Blonde is a $2K upcharge. About 10 years ago I asked Culberson about this and he said when they do natural nothing in the booth can have any color only Blondes and they must make sure the booth is completely dust free. I still say VSB is way more work. Campellone would much rather do a Blonde then VSB I am sure and no upcharge.
    Yep, I agree. I have seen this "figuring superiority" thing cut two ways. There have been some naturals that made me say "huh"? And there have been some sunburst samples that made me say "wow!". But on average...
    Attached Images Attached Images What’s Going On Now at Gibson?-img_0682-jpg What’s Going On Now at Gibson?-img_0677-jpg 
    Last edited by Jazzstdnt; 10-15-2019 at 12:52 AM.

  17. #191

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    Here is something else that makes no sense with Gibson. The huge upcharge for natural finish. A sunburst finish is way more labor intensive and requires very skilled binding scrapers. Yes Gibson claims to use the finest figured woods for Blondes but I have some VSB's that have as nice or nicer figured wood than my Blondes. Currently for carved, a Blonde is a $2K upcharge. About 10 years ago I asked Culberson about this and he said when they do natural nothing in the booth can have any color only Blondes and they must make sure the booth is completely dust free. I still say VSB is way more work. Campellone would much rather do a Blonde then VSB I am sure and no upcharge.
    The Gibson archtops that I have seen that were built pre-1970 informs me that the best woods were saved for the Blondes, hence the upcharge. In the 70's all the archtops had plain woods so the upcharge made no sense, but at least it was a small upcharge. By the mid 80's the better woods were used for both the Bursts and the Blondes, so there should be no upcharge, particularly the large upcharge they have been charging in recent decades. They do it because they can.

  18. #192

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    Quote Originally Posted by wintermoon
    $2000 for not cutting holes for an extra pu, switch and knobs?
    they should offer it @ a discount!


    Check out deleting anything on a Porsche, or check out their ' RS ' models...' delete factory a/c, power seats & windows, radio, ' - 400 # weight savings - - usually upcharge, or maybe close to even money............

    ..but hey, ' if ya gotta ask, maybe you're not a Porsche buyer '.....
    Last edited by Dennis D; 10-15-2019 at 09:50 AM.

  19. #193

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    Yeah, it may be a matter of these things being modifications to a "template" in a manufacturing line. Gibson has had a lot of models, and it seems to me (from a distance) that any "one-offs" are best conceived by them, at least price wise.

    In that sense they aren't really "custom" or truly bespoke. (bespoke - "the man spoke, and the tailor listened").

    There are luthiers who are true "custom" guitar makers, but we know the financial implications of that. (Just like with a custom tailor. )

  20. #194

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    And having gone through my employer's bankruptcy and reorganization, the new guys come in and basically say, among other things :
    " Are we sure we know what our costs are ? "...." We probably know what our costs aren't, because if these old costs worked, then the previous owners wouldn't have gotten into trouble."

    Just my two cents.....
    Last edited by Dennis D; 10-15-2019 at 01:36 PM.

  21. #195

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    Well the previous owner had a successful guitar business, but got into trouble with diversification of product lines. Henry wanted to diversify Gibson into a "lifestyle brand" with electronic gadgets. That where things went south.

    The guitar division had annual sales of $1Billion. A guitar company should be able to make a go of things with that level of revenue, especially considering that some of it was/is built using Asian labor.

    OTOH - that doesn't mean that the guitar business was optimized, few businesses are.

  22. #196

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
    Well the previous owner had a successful guitar business, but got into trouble with diversification of product lines. Henry wanted to diversify Gibson into a "lifestyle brand" with electronic gadgets. That where things went south.

    The guitar division had annual sales of $1Billion. A guitar company should be able to make a go of things with that level of revenue, especially considering that some of it was/is built using Asian labor.

    OTOH - that doesn't mean that the guitar business was optimized, few businesses are.
    I'm not sure where you're getting that $1 billion dollar sales number for their guitar business. I'm looking on-line and I see $122 Million for 2017.

    Gibson guitar maker files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection

    Here's the actual quote from the article regarding revenue from guitar sales.

    "Gibson’s guitar business has actually been on the uptick, according to the bankruptcy filings, rising 10.5% from January 2017 — $110 million to $122 million during the same 12-month period."

    MORE: In fact, according to the Washington Post, the entire guitar market worldwide for all manufacturers for 2017 was only $1.3 Billion

    https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/wp-..._2017_full.jpg
    Last edited by Jim Soloway; 10-15-2019 at 02:08 PM.

  23. #197

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
    I'm not sure where you're getting that $1 billion dollar sales number for their guitar business. I'm looking on-line and I see $122 Million for 2017.

    Gibson guitar maker files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection

    Here's the actual quote from the article regarding revenue from guitar sales.

    "Gibson’s guitar business has actually been on the uptick, according to the bankruptcy filings, rising 10.5% from January 2017 — $110 million to $122 million during the same 12-month period."
    Having been in business (3 restaurants and one night club) in the 1980's and having practiced law and represented many closely held businesses in the 1990's, I learned that high sales figures in no way indicates high profits, and can actually hide the fact that a company is operating at a loss. If it cost Gibson 125 million to do that 122 million in sales, the guitar business may not have been so wonderful.

    I would presume that the new owners/bankers either found the guitar division to be profitable, or think that it can be made profitable, otherwise we would have seen a Chapter 7 end to the Company. In today's global economy, manufacturing things in America is expensive. I suspect that the reluctant new owners of Gibson are wishing they had never funded Henry J.'s foolhardy expansion into industries that were beyond his competence.

  24. #198

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    Here is something else that makes no sense with Gibson. The huge upcharge for natural finish. A sunburst finish is way more labor intensive and requires very skilled binding scrapers. Yes Gibson claims to use the finest figured woods for Blondes but I have some VSB's that have as nice or nicer figured wood than my Blondes. Currently for carved, a Blonde is a $2K upcharge. About 10 years ago I asked Culberson about this and he said when they do natural nothing in the booth can have any color only Blondes and they must make sure the booth is completely dust free. I still say VSB is way more work. Campellone would much rather do a Blonde then VSB I am sure and no upcharge.

    My Gosh Vinny spoken like a real pro...….A Sunburst finish is by far more complicated and the only reason to upcharge a blond is because you might pay more for it have better figured wood. In fact Bill Barker and Bill Hollenbeck sort of liked sunburst finishes because they allow the maker to put the final flourishing mark on the guitar. I have said this many times before than finishing a guitar in nitro is an art in-and-of-itself. Making and carving a guitar are one aspect but the finish is another animal indeed. Requires to me the most experience to pull it off well. Many attempts need to be done and practice to do a great nitro finish. Finishing it the one part of guitar repair that I can do but have not for awhile. I really could make a better mark if I would get at it again but I have enough work just doing other regular stuff.

    Right now if I had a request for someone to have there guitar refinished and they wanted the guitar blond...……...I am all in that is pretty basic and straightforward. If you need me to match a sunburst for a 1955 Gibson L5...……...I would do it but I sure would need to go through a high re-learning curve to get a sunburst match. I also would lose money doing if for awhile given the time I would need to get up to speed. I tell you I like a nice sunburst now better than I did 25 years ago when blonds were the king.

    Vinny your Gibson are fantastic my I am impressed in fact I believe I may be in the midst of a NGD. Going to pick one up tomorrow...…….

  25. #199

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    Quote Originally Posted by deacon Mark
    I have said this many times before than finishing a guitar in nitro is an art in-and-of-itself. Making and carving a guitar are one aspect but the finish is another animal indeed. Requires to me the most experience to pull it off well.
    Wait can't you just put like 7 coats, let it cure and buff it out? That was gonna be my project on one of my guitars. Now I'm having second thoughts. Is it really that tricky?

  26. #200

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    Wait can't you just put like 7 coats, let it cure and buff it out? That was gonna be my project on one of my guitars. Now I'm having second thoughts. Is it really that tricky?
    Oh no not exactly. Need to get everything even between coats so you sand after each coat with 320. Basically you almost sand off in some cases what you just put on the guitar. Maple and spruce are not porous wood so no need to use filler on the wood but on mahogany you need to use filler to get wood all level. Just doing a typical solidbody will not require the work of an archtop. Need a spray booth too for nitro as hazardous stuff but you can make one easy enough that is what I do so all enclosed.