The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #151

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    Quote Originally Posted by va3ux
    That is what I was saying.

    I've read some of your other posts; have you been taking your medication ?
    I was hoping post no. 123 "A few final thoughts ".....would have indeed been the end of the ongoing contentious responses from this individual........but unfortunately it continues.

    Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

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  3. #152

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    As you can see with this new breed of disrespectful members, us long time members rarely post anymore.

  4. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    As you can see with this new breed of disrespectful members, us long time members rarely post anymore.
    Social media combined with the shield of the Internet provides a platform for the rude. And when it comes to politics or the subject of Gibson guitars, sparks will fly.

    Whenever an old thread is brought back from the dead, I see posts by many posters who are no longer present. I guess a social media platform like this one is as temporary as life itself for us all.

    Having strong convictions and debating well in a gentlemanly fashion is admirable. Being rude is shameful.

  5. #154

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    Unfortunately as stated the edit button is not used enough.And I am definitely guilty of this as well. But sometimes we need to let harsh comments go from other members,and just move on.
    Remember we're passionate about our instruments as well as our taste in music. And that's a really good thing! Especially in the Sea of Bad Music out there,lol!

  6. #155

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    As you can see with this new breed of disrespectful members, us long time members rarely post anymore.
    Hi Vinny, you can post anytime as far as I'm concerned.

    I agree there are some young pups who don't play by the rules. There were also some members in years past (no names) who could chew you a new one for a perceived transgression. Sometimes their excuse was "I was off my meds", sometimes it was just "I know more about this than you do." My take is that some people just need a little internet vacation from time to time.

    C'est la vie. The web ain't for sissies.

    I agree with Stringswinger: "Having strong convictions and debating well in a gentlemanly fashion is admirable. Being rude is shameful."

  7. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    As you can see with this new breed of disrespectful members, us long time members rarely post anymore.
    Which is a loss deeply felt by many of us. I try to ignore the distasteful stuff and appreciate all the more the well-reasoned, respectful posts of the grown-ups.

    JGO and its membership remains the single best source of jazz guitar information, lore, and appreciation on the planet.

  8. #157

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    There's a bunch of folks that were really valuable here and they're gone.
    I'm not sure if it was because of a lot of these aggressive posts or other circumstances but it's disappointing.
    Like where's Monk been? That guy always had meaningful posts.
    That said, there's still a good amount of long timers lurking and every once in awhile some newer cats pop up w good points.
    This place is an excellent resource as citizenk pointed out (one of those respected longtimers along w those cats that have already liked this thread)
    Carry on gents....(and ladies of course, we still have a few here)

  9. #158

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    Quote Originally Posted by va3ux
    That is what I was saying.

    I've read some of your other posts; have you been taking your medication ?
    Well that's interesting. You quoted my response to someone else, not you, who stated a manipulative, complete misrepresentation of what you said, and I simply corrected the record by stating a fact. That's pretty dry.

    My earlier response to your post was a bit harsh so I apologize for being so direct with you about your point. To be clear, your claim was completely false, and not backed up by any shred of evidence, or even simple observation. Honestly, it seems clear that it was just something that you wanted to sling against the wall on the internet to see if it would stick. It didn't, and it doesn't.

    You stated that the 40s and 50s are gone. Yes, that's obvious. Then you stated that archtops may have been profitable then but not now, and makers may face market doom, etc.

    Here's the truth - a simple observation reveals that there are more archtops being made and sold on earth now than there were in 1940, 1950, 1960, 1970, 1980, 1990, 2000, etc. They are being made by companies like Eastman at the bottom, Gibson in the middle (every day), and true custom luthiers like Benedetto, Monteleone, Buscarino, Manzer and others at the top. (See the thread regarding the festival in Denver last month). These companies have been at it a while and are continuing. Some are more successful than others, and they will come and go, just like any other industry. I already pointed out that "profit" for them is not the same as profit for the iPhone - but it's still profit. You said it wasn't.

    I worked in a music store in the early 80s and we sold Gibson archtops, Guilds too, as well as Martins, Ramirez classicals, and lots of lower priced guitars too, of course. Archtops were not a volume product for Gibson relative to their other offerings at that time, and that hasn't changed since.

    I'll admit this much. I'm not a fan of Gibson bashing and never have been. I love to take Gibson bashing to task, I freely admit it. I worked and bought my own ES-335 when I was 16. When I was 21 I bought a brand spanking new L5 with my own hard earned money. Was it cheap? No. Was it affordable? Apparently so. Back then (1979) I heard people whining about their prices. "Poor me" whining victims. The truth is that most of the people I've met who complain about them could afford them - if it were a priority - but it wasn't/isn't. They buy a house, they buy a car, they go on vacations, they buy all kinds of material things. So it's really just their choice. Yet they feel compelled to bitch and moan about it...

    In more recent times "Henry haters" have gleefully licked their chops while watching Gibson move towards bankruptcy. Others have been saddened, others just mocked it all. People have imagined that the guitar company was failing - it wasn't (it was the "lifestyle" electronic junk). People have imagined that archtops are cancelled - they aren't.

    So, you made a statement - archtops aren't profitable. The context was Gibson, and that is clearly false. They are making them on special order basis, every day, and with firm pricing. This is a point of debate, it's not personal, at least not with me. So do you wish to support your claim, or do you concede that it was just something to say off the cuff in cyberspace, without much reflection or observation?
    Last edited by Jazzstdnt; 10-14-2019 at 01:11 AM.

  10. #159

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    Look at you, flexing your paragraph breaks.

  11. #160

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    Old timer: 2014
    New breed: 2017
    Internet is a funny place.

  12. #161

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    Old timer: 2014 New breed: 2017 Internet is a funny place.
    I'm probably at least half the age of 90% of the userbase here, but I'll enjoy the "oldtimer" moniker... :P

  13. #162

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    Stringswinger and others are correct. The folks who used to post regularly eight or nine years ago seldom do anymore. Their replacements are, by and large, a younger crowd. Etiquette seems to follow the tendencies of most web "generational" turnovers. Things seem to get more brusque as the under-hmm-60 crowd settles in.This seems perfectly natural, to me. I'm not put out in the least, though I do miss the regular musings of some of the folks who used to check in regularly.If you've been with the World Wide Web from the beginning, you've seen this happen on all kinds of boards and forums. To quote the Ruttles, "life goes on, whether or not there's a reason, life goes on, enter a change of season."

  14. #163

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    I always liked the bar / tavern / pub analogies with forums......If you're out of line, then so advised, and continue acting like that, you're asked to leave / escorted / shown the door. And you don't get back until you talk to the Boss.......Why not, with no allowances made or considerations given for an offender's age ?

    Maybe once in their lives, everyone should be required to have / keep a job where they have to wait on the public. Then I'm betting there'd be less ' aggressive ' behavior.

    Just MHO

  15. #164

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    Back to Gibson
    Attached Images Attached Images What’s Going On Now at Gibson?-c29d2d2e-4abf-4eed-ad48-f23b5739c466-jpg What’s Going On Now at Gibson?-c7c2ec5e-b349-4f2d-a7c1-50f09c6864f3-jpg What’s Going On Now at Gibson?-d5e9f48a-99aa-4c08-ad7c-ef09b9fd66e3-jpg 

  16. #165

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    What a beautiful guitar! What's the model again?

  17. #166

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    As you all know I dislike 2 pu archtops. I had Culberson build me that Crimson shop ES175 above. I inquired recently about making me a reissue 1948 ES350 but the price was $9K. If you have the cash Gibson will make you anything you want.

  18. #167

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    As you all know I dislike 2 pu archtops. I had Culberson build me that Crimson shop ES175 above. I inquired recently about making me a reissue 1948 ES350 but the price was $9K. If you have the cash Gibson will make you anything you want.
    And that is probably a pretty good business model for Gibson archtops at the moment. Building them for spec in a flooded market serves no proper business interest. Making them as a one-off, while expensive, provides both profit and a new iconic Gibson (or a new customized Gibson) to those who can pay the price of admission.

  19. #168

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    If I had the cash, I think I'd love to custom-order a 1-(routed) pickup version of the L4c with all the trimmings. That would be a stunner of a guitar.

  20. #169

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    As you all know I dislike 2 pu archtops. I had Culberson build me that Crimson shop ES175 above. I inquired recently about making me a reissue 1948 ES350 but the price was $9K. If you have the cash Gibson will make you anything you want.
    Vinny, between your two beautiful Gibsons (ES175 and avatar Tal Farlow), which do you prefer?

    This one makes my knees weak!


  21. #170

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    I would love a single pickup L4c too. But the problem with the custom orders is that you pay first and you're stuck with it no matter how the guitar turns out. You can decide on the physical features in advance but the tone will be an unknown. Too bright. Not acoustic enough. Too acoustic.
    I wish there were L4 stores you could go and try a whole bunch. Now that's a profitable business idea! L4 store chain.

  22. #171

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    I would love a single pickup L4c too. But the problem with the custom orders is that you pay first and you're stuck with it no matter how the guitar turns out. You can decide on the physical features in advance but the tone will be an unknown. Too bright. Not acoustic enough. Too acoustic.
    I wish there were L4 stores you could go and try a whole bunch. Now that's a profitable business idea! L4 store chain.
    For me that's what's lovely about "electric." Assuming the guitar is well built according to specs-solid spruce top, solid mahogany back/sides, mahogany neck, MHS or Classic 57 pickup... I imagine I can dial in the tone on my amp. You're not as locked in when you are not bound to the acoustic tone of the guitar.

    But alas, this requires money, and I'm tapped out due to another recent acquisition.

  23. #172

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    I would love a single pickup L4c too. But the problem with the custom orders is that you pay first and you're stuck with it no matter how the guitar turns out. You can decide on the physical features in advance but the tone will be an unknown. Too bright. Not acoustic enough. Too acoustic.
    I wish there were L4 stores you could go and try a whole bunch. Now that's a profitable business idea! L4 store chain.
    Yep, a custom guitar is a huge gamble. Not only do you not know how it will sound and feel, but you are guaranteed a monetary loss if you decide to sell in almost all cases.

    If I buy a guitar sight unseen, it has to be at a price good enough to insure that my "Demo fee" is not a waste of scarce resources.

    My experience with single PUP vs Double PUP electric archtops (built in PUPS) is that the guitars with single Pups tend to be a bit more "acoustic" and a bit brighter. They lack the tonal variety of a two PUP model, but have fewer rattles. Joe Pass had a one PUP custom 175 at the end of his career that sounded great, but the PUP was in L-4 position, the body slimmed and let's face it, Joe Pass could sound better than any of us playing a Squier Strat, then we would playing a vintage D'angelico New Yorker.

  24. #173

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    My experience with single PUP vs Double PUP electric archtops (built in PUPS) is that the guitars with single Pups tend to be a bit more "acoustic" and a bit brighter.
    True. And that's exactly the reason that some prefer the ES 175 with 2 pups. They tend to sound a bit darker/warmer.

    DB

  25. #174

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    I like my Tal's the best though 2 pu I wish they were single. I never use the bridge pu ever.
    Attached Images Attached Images What’s Going On Now at Gibson?-a5331fca-a216-484a-a876-94dd9a4f928a-jpg What’s Going On Now at Gibson?-6908cab8-afe3-49aa-bddc-0814a63516a0-jpg 
    Last edited by vinnyv1k; 10-14-2019 at 03:37 PM.

  26. #175

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    I am not familar with gibson's other holdings, As I am of Fender Musical Instraments, But I am shure that they could Build only top shelf guitars and leave the other lower quality guitars to thier other guitar builders/ over sea's holdings.