The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    They just pulled all their YouTube Videos. Authentically strange.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    You haven't heard about the Eastman's take back ? All facilities are moving to Beijing.

  4. #3

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    What’s Going On Now at Gibson?-screen-shot-2019-09-29-3-34-10-pm-jpg
    The marketing department reduced decades of history and culture to six categories.

  5. #4

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    It is looking a lot like Levi-Strauss...Stick to your button-fly 501s.

    See, we're starting to miss Henry J. now, aren't we?

  6. #5

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    It's so sad to go through the Gibson website and not see any ES guitars apart from the 335...

  7. #6

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    I'm hoping that the current rudimentary lineup is more to "safe" it while the turbulence from a change of leadership smooths out. I guess they're not prioritizing stuff that won't sell, such as the ES-175. In the years I've worked at the guitar store and the years before when I was a "hangout" customer who'd be there a lot every week, I have never seen an ES-175 sell - my store has stocked one which another employee bought, and the sister store stocks still a 2016 model that's been marked down many times.

    I don't think that we "owe" Gibson anything, and brand loyalty is a dangerous path, but I -have- two Gibson guitars which I adore. It's completely unscientific to say so, but only a Gibson is a Gibson, and I for one, appreciate the "mojo" for what it is. Hope it turns out well in the end.

  8. #7

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    Getting back to "core" collections... in other words their money maker lines is sound management for a company in recovery mode.

    Didn't GM 86 Pontiac and Saturn? Ford too... "Ford dropping all but 2 cars from its North American dealerships" (The mustang is a keeper) to focus on SUV's and trucks. Companies do it all the time.

    Will we see archtops and other semi hollow models back? Sure if they can make a business case that brings in money, but they may not be cheap.

    This is (IMO) good news for current owners who may finally see some value added to what they have. Prospective owners can either pony up or go to Asian brands. Good news for Ibanez, Eastman and others.

    Do I miss previous management? nope never will.

  9. #8

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    My understanding is that the Gibson guitar business remained profitable. It was the acquisitions what done Gibson in. Buying the the audio, video, multimedia and accessories business of Royal Philips was a very peculiar decision.

  10. #9

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    The Second Golden Age of Gibson Custom Shop guitars arguably came under the stewardship of Henry J.. Henry J may have his moments of barmy designs like the Firebird X in the later years and the Tronical debâcle but he kept the Custom Shop archtops in production when the death knell for them was sounded as early as 1989 under Norlin. Till Gibson went into receivership he kept archtops in production all the way to the very end. That is respecting tradition and the history of the Gibson Guitar Company.

    And let us not forget Gibson Bozeman, Montana.

    Do I miss Henry J? In truth, I do. The Gibson Custom Shop produced more interesting guitars then. Look at their Instagram and Facebook postings.

  11. #10

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    Just a beginning to an eventual slow, sad end.

    The archtops aren't coming back guys. Ain't a single young gun in jazz playing a new Gibson. Not one.

  12. #11

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    At the Rocky Mountain Archtop Festival last week, I listened in on a number of conversations relating to archtops (not just Gibson) and their use in music among some performers. One performer put it this way:

    - Jazz as a musical genre represents about 1-2% of musical listening.
    - Within jazz, only about 10% of music is guitar led artists (most are horn players of keyboards)
    - So only 0.1-0.2% of listeners represents the jazz guitar market today
    - As a result, performers have a difficult time making a living on pure jazz gigs, instruction, recording.
    - Therefore, a more versatile guitar like a Tele or semi hollowbody covers more musical ground

    I think this, plus the inherently higher cost of quality archtops pretty much explains their decline in the musical scene. Gibson who is in financial distress is simply recognizing the realities of the day (plus there are many of their past guitars competing with them on the used market).

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7
    At the Rocky Mountain Archtop Festival last week, I listened in on a number of conversations relating to archtops (not just Gibson) and their use in music among some performers. One performer put it this way:

    - Jazz as a musical genre represents about 1-2% of musical listening.
    - Within jazz, only about 10% of music is guitar led artists (most are horn players of keyboards)
    - So only 0.1-0.2% of listeners represents the jazz guitar market today
    - As a result, performers have a difficult time making a living on pure jazz gigs, instruction, recording.
    - Therefore, a more versatile guitar like a Tele or semi hollowbody covers more musical ground

    I think this, plus the inherently higher cost of quality archtops pretty much explains their decline in the musical scene. Gibson who is in financial distress is simply recognizing the realities of the day (plus there are many of their past guitars competing with them on the used market).
    Maybe so, but Gibson is a company that was founded upon, and made a success by archtop guitars. Those who do not honor and build on their past may not have a rewarding future.

  14. #13

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    In addition to the above analysis- the market is saturated with Archtop offerings at various price points. This serves the beginner, seasoned professional and collector. We never had this availability back in the 90’s Archtop Renaissance period, nor was the internet the main shopping platform.

    Between You -Tube , the internet , and guitar forums , a buyer has more information available to make choices without leaving the couch. I believe this has had an adverse affect on guitar shows in general.

    On the bright side I believe there are still many seasoned Archtop enthusiasts searching for the elusive sound - and will continue to spend ( significant $$’s) and explore all available market offerings.

    The Archtop is a thing of beauty - and is an art form unlike a static painting -it can satisfy ones visual/ emotional senses along with making music. The well established high end builders I know have healthy backlogs and are producing some of the best Archtops ever made. Bill Comins recently brought 2 new guitars to the Harrisburg show - both were sold immediately. These instruments are not factory guitars and they serve a different clientele.

    However - from a Gibson build prospective it may not be such an attractive prospect. With the cost of labor and materials increasing - and dealer risk sharing becoming problematic- it has changed the way money is being invested.

    Additionally, Gibson has a perception issue of late and their retail pricing has had a negative affect on “life time Gibson” Archtop enthusiasts.

    Despite the popular consensus - I don’t see the desire or interest for high quality Arch-tops changing anytime soon.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    Maybe so, but Gibson is a company that was founded upon, and made a success by archtop guitars. Those who do not honor and build on their past may not have a rewarding future.
    I think I would take the exact opposite position: a company that focuses on their past without acceptance of the current reality is likely to fail. Changing economic, cultural, financial, and corporate conditions inevitably require that businesses either adapt or die.

  16. #15

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    I visited the Mannheim Guitar Summit this weekend. Only a handful of archtops among the hundreds - maybe over a thousand - guitars on display. Even the brands with archtops in their portfolio, such as Ibanez or Collings, didn't show them. Eastman was archtop-shy, too, stressing their steel-string acoustics. A Hutchins-era L5 on the Saturday morning outdoor flea market could be had for a cool € 6,000.

  17. #16

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    Gibson's line-up is very limited. The new hipster management will most likely morph the new products into an "industrial" look.; flat metallic finishes, stain finish with scarring (fake vintage look), and blue tooth electronic gizmos. The archtops will probably never come back.....there is a reason they quit making them. If you are over 40 years old, you should be grateful to have been around as that was when Gibson made some of their best guitars. At least they did that, and we have the memories. For those of you who have the older Gibsons....hang onto them as now they will all go up in value.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
    I think I would take the exact opposite position: a company that focuses on their past without acceptance of the current reality is likely to fail. Changing economic, cultural, financial, and corporate conditions inevitably require that businesses either adapt or die.
    There is no reason that Gibson cannot do both, honoring their past while at the same time adapting to the needs of the future.

  19. #18

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    I should be thrilled by the anticipated run-up in values of my small collection but I am not. I would like see the tradition continue. It would be a sad day when nobody knows how to make them. With photographic and cinematic film, Polaroid media, when they went away photo artists lost a medium of expression.

    Skills when not passed down are soon forgotten and lost. Taste is often acquired and then passed down. If you do not supply them, the taste for them does not even get started.

    I was pootling around town checking out the many Rolex dealers in my small place. All the Yachtmasters, GMTs, Daytonas, Submariners, Sea Dwellers were sold out. I put myself on the waiting list and the dealer laughed. I must be the 100th person in line for a Yachtmaster 42 Platinum. He humoured me by saying that sometimes people do drop out. He would like to get more but Rolex could not supply them fast enough. Tudors and Omegas are aplenty. As are the other high-faluting Swiss marques with the unpronounceable names that show up a rube. Blancpain is painful when mispronounced.

    The proper marketing model is not Levi-Strauss; it is Rolex. There are guys who buy $10 000 to $20 000 guitars to play cowboy chords. You got to create that desire. They just want to be seen with "the best".

    It is starting to look like the Second Coming of Norlin. You are all going to miss Henry J..

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    There is no reason that Gibson cannot do both, honoring their past while at the same time adapting to the needs of the future.

    A Byrdland with G Force tuning system ? The best of both worlds...

  21. #20

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    I'll echo what's been already said. I do think it's important to honor the past,less we have shallower results. Just as in the current music is a great example of this.
    Unfortunately Bean counters are in control of this company.
    They have no vision sans profit,and along with current trends,what they are guitar is merely a prop for the current videos.

    I really think under Henry J there was the Golden Era. Unfortunately there was a lot of problems with Henry J ego as well.And we saw how,it was not only his but the companies downfall.

    Not sure how much Gibson Archtops will appreciate,since there isn't a huge market for them. Newer Jazz afecianados tend to be going with smaller luthier built Archtops like Victor Baker, Moffa, Japanese builds.
    I don't see many of today's players playing L-5 CES nor Tal Farlows. Benedetto might be the last company doing these instruments.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    There is no reason that Gibson cannot do both, honoring their past while at the same time adapting to the needs of the future.
    I think there probably is a good reason. Gibson as it is now constituted is a direct by product of their recent corporate failures. For all practical purposes they are now owned by their previous debt holders. These were not really willing buyers but rather creditors who were at risk of losing large amounts of money as a result of the company's possible failure. So yes, the bankruptcy eliminated their debt but the new owners primary motivator is almost certainly to recover their loses without having to make large additional investments or take a lot of new economic risk. That means maximizing efficiency and getting the best return from their resources that they possibly can. Building archtops is a time consuming exercise that requires highly skilled employees and expensive materials and takes a long time to produce an income. I can understand why the new owners, given their unfortunate situation would want to put all of their energy and resources into more economically productive production. I also suspect that the current owners will ultimately turn out to be short term caretakers of the company who see their ultimately opportunity to recoup their loses coming from eventually selling to a more willing buyer. As a result there is a lot more incentive for them to focus on the short term and leave the long term for those who will be there to experience it.

  23. #22

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    You are describing marketing of Veblen goods which is successfully done with Luxury goods.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
    I should be thrilled by the anticipated run-up in values of my small collection but I am not. I would like see the tradition continue. It would be a sad day when nobody knows how to make them. With photographic and cinematic film, Polaroid media, when they went away photo artists lost a medium of expression.

    Skills when not passed down are soon forgotten and lost. Taste is often acquired and then passed down. If you do not supply them, the taste for them does not even get started.

    I was pootling around town checking out the many Rolex dealers in my small place. All the Yachtmasters, GMTs, Daytonas, Submariners, Sea Dwellers were sold out. I put myself on the waiting list and the dealer laughed. I must be the 100th person in line for a Yachtmaster 42 Platinum. He humoured me by saying that sometimes people do drop out. He would like to get more but Rolex could not supply them fast enough. Tudors and Omegas are aplenty. As are the other high-faluting Swiss marques with the unpronounceable names that show up a rube. Blancpain is painful when mispronounced.

    The proper marketing model is not Levi-Strauss; it is Rolex. There are guys who buy $10 000 to $20 000 guitars to play cowboy chords. You got to create that desire. They just want to be seen with "the best".

    It is starting to look like the Second Coming of Norlin. You are all going to miss Henry J..

  24. #23

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    People can't afford them, don't make them.

    People can afford them, go find them.

    Choose one.

    I was just joking to my friend - I wonder how many people who own a Yachtmaster own a yacht or even get their feet wet in a dinghy? There was Gordon Ramsay glaring back at me from a poster in his restaurant and Gordon was sporting a Yachtmaster 42 Platinum or White Gold as it is known in these parts. I am sure Gordon doesn't sail.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    Maybe so, but Gibson is a company that was founded upon, and made a success by archtop guitars. Those who do not honor and build on their past may not have a rewarding future.

    ......Sorry, but Gibson was founded on mandolins and banjos, and to their credit, they did change production focus once the market dictated it.

  26. #25

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    Sat through this lecture a week ago...