Acoustic Archtop?

[pcsanwald]

I'm thinking of getting a second archtop, but primarily for acoustic playing around the house; i.e. I don't need a pickup. A couple questions:

1) Are there any sound/tone advantages to not having a pickup? I'm happy to get one with a pickup (I love my sadowsky jim hall), but, wondering about what effects a pickup would have.

2) Any brands/modes I should look into? Budget is 3k or less.

[sgosnell]

A floating pickup is an option that doesn't affect the acoustic sound much, if at all. I really like the DeArmond Rhythm Chief 1100 reissue pickup. If you don't want to put holes in the neck for the mounting rod, some BluTack will keep it in place well enough. A set in pickup will reduce the acoustic volume somewhat, but it's hard to say how much. It depends a lot on how the top is carved or otherwise made. There are lots of guitars available, and I haven't tried anywhere near all of them, so I really have no recommendation there.

[sgcim]

I disagree with Stan about adding a floating p/u to an acoustic archtop. When I had the Guild repro of an 1100 put on my '35 D'A it destroyed the acoustic sound of the guitar. The Guilds are not as good as the originals, so I ripped it off, and just play the D'A acoustically. He attached it to the pick guard, so there are
numerous touch points that have to be taken care of.
I went to Mirabella to fix it, but he wanted too much, so I left it acoustic.

[customxke]

For a purely acoustic guitar, in your price range, I’d look at prewar L7s.

[Drifter]

When I had the Guild repro of an 1100 put on my '35 D'A it destroyed the acoustic sound of the guitar.

That's quite astounding, to say the least. Did you find an explanation for this?

[Stringswinger]

I disagree with Stan about adding a floating p/u to an acoustic archtop. When I had the Guild repro of an 1100 put on my '35 D'A it destroyed the acoustic sound of the guitar. The Guilds are not as good as the originals, so I ripped it off, and just play the D'A acoustically. He attached it to the pick guard, so there are
numerous touch points that have to be taken care of.
I went to Mirabella to fix it, but he wanted too much, so I left it acoustic.

I am guessing that in your setup, the repro DeArmond made contact with the top (that would kill the acoustic tone). My 35 Excel sounds the same acoustically with no pickup or when I use a vintage DeArmond 1000 with the Monkey on a stick setup. I do make sure to keep the DeArmond forward enough on the rod so that no contact is made with the top.

[sgcim]

I am guessing that in your setup, the repro DeArmond made contact with the top (that would kill the acoustic tone). My 35 Excel sounds the same acoustically with no pickup or when I use a vintage DeArmond 1000 with the Monkey on a stick setup. I do make sure to keep the DeArmond forward enough on the rod so that no contact is made with the top.

Yeah Marc, Kris demonstrated where it was making contact, and it sounded good as new when he propped the contact points up.
Since I didn't think the Guild repro was as good as the vintage Dearmond, I just took it off, and play it acoustically. I'll get Roger B. to fix it next time I see him.

[sgosnell]

If the pickup is making very light contact with the top, it can sound bad because of vibrations, similar to a vibrating pickup set in a pickup ring. There are two solutions. One is to bend the mounting rod and get the pickup completely away from the top. That can be difficult, and may not last. My preferred solution is to get the pickup firmly in contact with the top to stop the buzzing. I use BluTack for that, between the pickup and the top, and I like the sound. I can't tell any difference in acoustic sound with the pickup in place or removed. The BluTack absorbs any vibrations and if the pickup is up against the end of the fretboard won't damp the top vibrations much if at all. You could also put some felt under the pickup to do sort of the same thing, but the putty is my preference. Just having the pickup on the top with nothing but metal touching the top is not ideal. As for the 1100 reissue, that's a matter of taste and personal preference. I really like it. I might not like it so much if the BluTack wasn't in place, though.

[jads57]

Depending on prefence and budget there are some really good used options.On the budget side say around $1K Eastman 810CE used is a great option.
But go for more recent builds as they improved especially over the last 10 years.

If money isn't a problem than it just depends on your ear and feel preference.
Campellone builds great Gibson Style L7 influenced guitars
I'm very happy with Franz Elferink Tonemaster for the last 5 years.
John Buscarino Artisan probably was my favorite in terms of acoustic response. But it wasn't by leaps and bounds better,maybe 10% to 15% But maybe cost 2xs more as well.

[pcsanwald]

I ended up ordering a Epiphone Masterbilt Olympic off of Reverb.com, in violin burst. It fit a bunch of criteria for me:

- totally acoustic, seems small enough for some traveling/trips. I only have two other guitars and I hate traveling with both of them because they're nice and would be hard to replace (sadowsky jim hall and danocaster tele)
- pretty cheap relative to budget (~500ish), if I don't like it I don't mind re-selling for a small loss or whatever. Next step up seemed to be a Loar which seemed good but was at least double the price.
- good sound on demo clips, although would it kill them to hire a jazz musician for once?

will post a clip if I like it!

[gitman]

I have also had good success with fixing an 1100 DeArmond on the top of an acoustic Super-400, using some sort of silicone gel. It did not leave any traces on the old finish and to my ears did in no way alter the acoustic tone and the dynamic response of the guitar. That part of the top at the end of the fingerboard/neck-block is usually quite thick and it has to be - too thin and the wood would (ha ha) eventually crimp up due to the pressure of the neck. On a flattop guitar you have an extra (sturdy) brace running from side to side at this exact spot.

[sgcim]

I ended up ordering a Epiphone Masterbilt Olympic off of Reverb.com, in violin burst. It fit a bunch of criteria for me:

- totally acoustic, seems small enough for some traveling/trips. I only have two other guitars and I hate traveling with both of them because they're nice and would be hard to replace (sadowsky jim hall and danocaster tele)
- pretty cheap relative to budget (~500ish), if I don't like it I don't mind re-selling for a small loss or whatever. Next step up seemed to be a Loar which seemed good but was at least double the price.
- good sound on demo clips, although would it kill them to hire a jazz musician for once?

will post a clip if I like it!

Masterbilts are good guitars. They gave one free to a friend of mine who is Eppie's great godson (oslt), probably just to get him out of their hair!

[JaxJaxon]

I would say any thing coming in contact with the top is going to change its acoustic properties, same for the sides or back. I will take the pic guards off mine for a louder sound, most guards cover half of a f hole and the strings are high enough from the body so I seldom hit it with a pick when I use one.